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Masturbation and the "normal" person

funcouple

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I dropped my wife at the airport earlier for yet another weekend sales trip, I know that my day will end (or maybe all night) with me watching some good porn and stimulating myself and I am relatively sure (ok, positive) my wife will be doing the same in her hotel room. Since we both admitted to each other early in our relationship that we were both addicted to sex (good thing we are married to each other) this type of excessive solo simulation fun may not be normal for the average person. Is there any way we can have a honest and open discussion about self pleasuring and the pros and cons? Is there such a thing as doing it too much (or too little)? I guess since I have admitted to all of you that I jack off on a (maybe more than) regular basis, I will probably get my share of shit but as they say, 80% of people masturbate and the other 20% lie about doing it. I am fairly sure my wife will get involved in this discussion later on today when she gets to where she is heading. You can be sure we will have more to say about this later, but right now I need to get into work. Have a great Friday everyone!!
 
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Politesse

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I dropped my wife at the airport earlier for yet another weekend sales trip, I know that my day will end (or maybe all night) with me watching some good porn and stimulating myself and I am relatively sure (ok, positive) my wife will be doing the same in her hotel room. Since we both admitted to each other early in our relationship that we were both addicted to sex (good thing we are married to each other) this type of excessive solo simulation fun may not be normal for the average person. Is there any way we can have a honest and open discussion about self pleasuring and the pros and cons? Is there such a thing as doing it too much (or too little)? I guess since I have admitted to all of you that I jack off on a (maybe more than) regular basis, I will probably get my share of shit but as they say, 80% of people masturbate and the other 20% lie about doing it. I am fairly sure my wife will get involved in this discussion later on today when she gets to where she is heading. You can be sure we will have more to say about this later, but right now I need to get into work. Have a great Friday everyone!!

You seem to have somehow acessed this forum from 1974. Was Marty McFly involved?
 

funcouple

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I dropped my wife at the airport earlier for yet another weekend sales trip, I know that my day will end (or maybe all night) with me watching some good porn and stimulating myself and I am relatively sure (ok, positive) my wife will be doing the same in her hotel room. Since we both admitted to each other early in our relationship that we were both addicted to sex (good thing we are married to each other) this type of excessive solo simulation fun may not be normal for the average person. Is there any way we can have a honest and open discussion about self pleasuring and the pros and cons? Is there such a thing as doing it too much (or too little)? I guess since I have admitted to all of you that I jack off on a (maybe more than) regular basis, I will probably get my share of shit but as they say, 80% of people masturbate and the other 20% lie about doing it. I am fairly sure my wife will get involved in this discussion later on today when she gets to where she is heading. You can be sure we will have more to say about this later, but right now I need to get into work. Have a great Friday everyone!!

You seem to have somehow acessed this forum from 1974. Was Marty McFly involved?

I am not sure of what you mean by your comment, however I will take a run at what I think you mean...there is not doubt that when we (especially us guys) young we were jacking cock all the time (even several times a day) and you think that people out grow the desire. My good friend realized that he was addicted to drinking beer when he was about 21 years old and he is now in his 50s and he is still addicted to drinking beer. He got in a lot of trouble for doing it, so he can't do it anymore, but if he could, he would. The same id true for us who are addicted to sex, even though we are older now.
 

fromderinside

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I know that my day will end (or maybe all night) with me watching some good porn and stimulating myself ....

suggestion. Take ZZZquil after you brush your teeth. You do brush your teeth, don't you? If not. That may the problem. ...anyhoo sleep begins when you get tired and you obviously aren't tired when you should be tired. So either ZZZquil or good exercise which is indicated by excess fat in your picture. Returning to teen bedroom practices in your fifties? isn't really healthy or recommended. Of course you could move to places where wild primates live and be a wild and crazy little monkey again. I'm sure predators would appreciate access to fresh meat.*

*still not getting it?
 

Keith&Co.

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Jacking cock? What an unusual phrasing. I never heard it expressed that way.
Jacking odd, and jerking off, of course. Beating off. That's a new one, though.
 

Loren Pechtel

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Too much jacking off:

1) When you do it to the point of causing injury.

2) When you do it in preference to sex with your partner.
 

Bronzeage

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"To the lonely it is company; to the
forsaken it is a friend; to the aged and to the impotent it is a
benefactor. They that are penniless are yet rich, in that they
still have this majestic diversion." In another place this
experienced observer has said, "There are times when I prefer it
to sodomy."
Mark Twain


Pros: It feels good.

Cons: Haven't found any yet.
 

funcouple

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Too much jacking off:

1) When you do it to the point of causing injury.

2) When you do it in preference to sex with your partner.

I am not sure how I like my husband letting everyone know what we each do while by ourselves, but what he says is true and I don't think doing it in preference of each other will ever happen. I am stuck in a hotel in the middle of nowhere so I think I will just check out the hotel bar for tonight. Maybe talk on here later.
 

funcouple

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I wasn't sure if I should start this thread this morning but thanks for the thoughts and input
 

spikepipsqueak

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As you point out, pretty much everyone masturbates.

I can't figure out why it seems to be such a matter of pride to you.

I grant you that masturbation is more fun than walking or breathing, but it is on a par with those two activities as a topic for attention seeking.
 

funcouple

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As you point out, pretty much everyone masturbates.

I can't figure out why it seems to be such a matter of pride to you.

I grant you that masturbation is more fun than walking or breathing, but it is on a par with those two activities as a topic for attention seeking.

Nor can I figure out why my buddy could not stop drinking with just a couple of beers. Given the opportunity he would drink all night long, the same way that since my wife is out of town, I have been on an all night marathon porn and jack off session.
 

funcouple

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Wow. So when your partner is in the can you play with feces? Hmmmmnnn. Where have I seen that before. Soom topic require mature discussion others don't. this one ........ back in the third grade?

I am not sure how you took the discussion in the feces direction but if you are into that I will not put you down, not for me though. However I don't think 3rd graders are visiting all of the porn sites and getting themselves off. I guess at least I have admitted publicly that I have no power over my addiction of sex, porn and jacking (AA first step), I just don't have any interest or need in going to the next steps.
 

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Wow. So when your partner is in the can you play with feces? Hmmmmnnn. Where have I seen that before. Soom topic require mature discussion others don't. this one ........ back in the third grade?

This does not make any sense.
 

funcouple

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A nice long motorcycle ride with a buddy and now we are enjoying a cold beer and (what else right) porn.
 

Bronzeage

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Wow. So when your partner is in the can you play with feces? Hmmmmnnn. Where have I seen that before. Soom topic require mature discussion others don't. this one ........ back in the third grade?

This does not make any sense.

I am glad I am not the only one who didn't get his point

You may have noticed this is not a forum filled with prurient posts and some forum members are not good at responding to them. We don't have Titty Tuesday or Foreskin Friday threads.

There are plenty of forums which do. Every forum eventually assumes it's peculiar personality. While some forums are filled with voyeurs who enjoy watching other people go at it, or at least talk about it, TFT is more of a "Get a room" crowd.
 

funcouple

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I am glad I am not the only one who didn't get his point

You may have noticed this is not a forum filled with prurient posts and some forum members are not good at responding to them. We don't have Titty Tuesday or Foreskin Friday threads.

There are plenty of forums which do. Every forum eventually assumes it's peculiar personality. While some forums are filled with voyeurs who enjoy watching other people go at it, or at least talk about it, TFT is more of a "Get a room" crowd.

yea I guess we are I little more open than some. but others have looked at us a little weird all of our time together (my wife and I, I mean). Really we are just common people with an interesting addiction. thanks for the reply
 

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I am glad I am not the only one who didn't get his point

You may have noticed this is not a forum filled with prurient posts and some forum members are not good at responding to them. We don't have Titty Tuesday or Foreskin Friday threads.

There are plenty of forums which do. Every forum eventually assumes it's peculiar personality. While some forums are filled with voyeurs who enjoy watching other people go at it, or at least talk about it, TFT is more of a "Get a room" crowd.

yea I guess we are I little more open than some. but others have looked at us a little weird all of our time together (my wife and I, I mean). Really we are just common people with an interesting addiction. thanks for the reply

I don't think it is a question of being more 'open.' To me, it makes for pretty boring conversation. But then, no one else's sex life is nearly as interesting to me as my own.

Partially, it's a question of whether this is the place to get the kind of interactions you seem to want to get.

The other part is that reading about someone who seems to have no other interests other than posting about drinking, watching porn and jacking off and his wife's tits and trying to get her to show them here or showing his own privates here just sounds.....limited. I don't find it interesting or enticing or engaging. Hey, maybe you really are getting a bunch of positive responses and messages. I don't know.

But if you are interested in engaging with others in discussions of porn watching, masturbation and your wife's tits, I think you've come to the wrong place.

If you want to talk about other stuff, look around a bit and see what we usually talk about and join in. Maybe introduce a topic that is not related to your sex life or your wife's body parts. Or yours. Or anybody else's. Or porn.
 

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Wow. So when your partner is in the can you play with feces? Hmmmmnnn. Where have I seen that before. Some (sic) topics (sic) require mature discussion others don't (sic). this one ........ back in the third grade?

This does not make any sense.

It wasn't supposed to make any mores sense than comparing drinking addiction with sex addiction. I accept they are seen by some as addictions. One is driven by genetics while the other is driven by social factors mainly lust. It's up to you to figure out which is which.*

*hint some get thirsty before the become drowsy others don't.
 

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This is a good topic for the Morals & Principles subforum.

Why was/is masturbation often seen as immoral (to at least some degree)?

I don't know.

It is true that Christianity, for example, has tended to frown on it, and even today it is still considered a sin in many denominations.

My guess is that the answer to the question is multiple. Humans being a social species, we often frown on 'selfish' behaviours. And of course reproduction is the be all and end all 'goal' (consciously intended or otherwise) of every successful species, and one can't generally reproduce by having sex with oneself.
 

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Wow. So when your partner is in the can you play with feces? Hmmmmnnn. Where have I seen that before. Some (sic) topics (sic) require mature discussion others don't (sic). this one ........ back in the third grade?

This does not make any sense.

It wasn't supposed to make any mores sense than comparing drinking addiction with sex addiction. I accept they are seen by some as addictions. One is driven by genetics while the other is driven by social factors mainly lust. It's up to you to figure out which is which.*

*hint some get thirsty before the become drowsy others don't.

When did sexual attraction become a socially driven behavior? Are you saying I started to really like girls around age 12 because I saw other boys behaving as if they did?
 

steve_bank

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Anything can become a habit, then a crutch, then an obsession when you do it compulsively with any understanding why.

Something that in moderation can be good, but it can become self abuse. Alchohol, drugs, sex.

Sex becomes a crutch and something to hide behind.

I have wondered at the end if Hugh Hefner felt satisfied with his life. Even as he got older he surrounded himself with compliant young women and admitted to using Viagra. Was he really happy? Who knows.

About 10 years ago I was doing a lot of computer work at home. I started off taking a beak by watching porn. It grew until I was keeping a window open while I worked. it had become an addiction. I had no idea why I was watching it, oter than a stimulation to keep up fpr the work. Took me weeks to work out of it. Once your brain gets wired into a pleasure feedback loop it is tough.

The antidote is figure out how to feel good without it. I had to think back and remember.

Sex education is abysmal. At least in my generation kids lend sexuality in the neighborhood. I has no sex eduction at school or from a parent. That lack of foundation screwed up relationships in my 20s.

When I was a teen I went into NYC with a friend and they let us into the Metropol Café, one of the first strip clubs in NYC. We ogled paying for expensive drinks. I got into a strip show in a theater on 42nd Street.

In the an sense of adult guidance we assume roles by what we see. Getting to feel a girls tits or your hand between a girls legs was major bragging rights.

It is worse today with all the hyper sexuality in movies and TV. Hard to find a stable point.
 

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When did sexual attraction become a socially driven behavior? Are you saying I started to really like girls around age 12 because I saw other boys behaving as if they did?


I said abnormal sexual attraction is more dependent on social that hormonal factors. Obviously we are testosterone/estrogen divided beings. It's just that abnormal testosterone nor estrogen are at the base of sex addiction whereas one can predict alcoholism the tendency for one to become sleepy before one becomes thirsty. Masculine males and silky skinned females are not predictors of abnormal sexual appetite nor are penis size nor clitoris location.
 

fromderinside

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Anything can become a habit, then a crutch, then an obsession when you do it compulsively with any understanding why.

I've read my Ronald Reagan and you are no Ronald Reagan. Common sense is a very bad crutch to use for determining the bases for abnormal behavior.

My first experience in this field was in 1969 which involved chaining a male rat in a chamber where there were two doors leading to females one in heat the other not in heat. The males responded to the females who made the most noise. ... and the chase down the rabbit hole had begun.
 
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steve_bank

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As to the OP title, the idea of normal culturally went out the window starting in the 60s.

Vibrating dildos for women were saold as 'facial massagers' in catalogs.

Today Adam And Eve runs masturbation and sex toy infomersials on mainstream cable channels described in graphic detail. Intersecting butt plugs with a suction cup. Stick it on a wall and you can happily fuck yourself. Go online and look at their site. A large number of female toys. Small battery powered ones you wear during the day with a wire running to a start stop button in your pocket.

There is no longer any stigma for masturbating. Our modern liberal culture allows anyone to abuse themselves to death if it happens. Drugs, drinking tobacco,. The state steps in only if you present a serious short term danger to your self.

The dildo in the 19th century was used by doctors to treat women for tension and anxiety....


Don't have a clue what fromder is saying and what Ronnie Raygun has to do with obsessives masturbation.
 

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When did sexual attraction become a socially driven behavior? Are you saying I started to really like girls around age 12 because I saw other boys behaving as if they did?


I said abnormal sexual attraction is more dependent on social that hormonal factors. Obviously we are testosterone/estrogen divided beings. It's just that abnormal testosterone nor estrogen are at the base of sex addiction whereas one can predict alcoholism the tendency for one to become sleepy before one becomes thirsty. Masculine males and silky skinned females are not predictors of abnormal sexual appetite nor are penis size nor clitoris location.

If you can show a connection between some kind of particular sexual attraction which is dependent on social factors, I would like to see that.
 

steve_bank

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When did sexual attraction become a socially driven behavior? Are you saying I started to really like girls around age 12 because I saw other boys behaving as if they did?


I said abnormal sexual attraction is more dependent on social that hormonal factors. Obviously we are testosterone/estrogen divided beings. It's just that abnormal testosterone nor estrogen are at the base of sex addiction whereas one can predict alcoholism the tendency for one to become sleepy before one becomes thirsty. Masculine males and silky skinned females are not predictors of abnormal sexual appetite nor are penis size nor clitoris location.

If you can show a connection between some kind of particular sexual attraction which is dependent on social factors, I would like to see that.

The is genetic programed attraction and there are cultural norms of attractiveness. Some men are atracted by a lot of makeup and tight pants. Others are not. I prefer women who do not use makeup or scents.

Sume guys like women with big tits, other do not. Personally I thought Stormy Daniels unattractive.
 

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If you can show a connection between some kind of particular sexual attraction which is dependent on social factors, I would like to see that.

Sound seems to attract male rats. Strong direct eye contact seems to attract western cultural male customers.* Both are dominant sensory modes attended to by males of species. As for the development of eye contact and eye avoidance behavior many studies have linked them to social customs.

[h=1]Attention to Eye Contact in the West and East: Autonomic Responses and Evaluative Ratings https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0059312[/h]
The current study investigated cultural differences (East Asian vs. Western Europeans) in response to eye contact with another (real) person. The results revealed that eye contact elicited stronger heart rate deceleration responses, shorter looking times, and higher ratings of subjective arousal as compared to a face displaying an averted gaze in both cultures. By contrast, cultural differences related to eye contact were observed in various evaluative responses (e.g., facial emotion, approachability etc.) to the models presenting different gaze directions. These results suggest that cultural differences in eye contact behaviour mainly emerge from differential display rules and cultural norms rather than from the effects of culture on the development of behavioural and physiological responses to direct gaze. The rating results suggest that individuals from an East Asian culture perceive another's face as angrier and more unapproachable and unpleasant when making eye contact as compared to individuals from a Western European culture. The rating results also suggest that direct vs. averted gaze can have differential influences on perceptions about another person's facial affect and disposition. Given that eye contact is crucial for daily interpersonal communication, the current results provide unique insight into how we behave in front of others. These results also have the potential for facilitating effective cross-cultural communication. For example, East Asian individuals should not overinterpret the eye contact of Western European individuals as signalling anger, and Western European individuals should tolerate shorter and less frequent eye contact with East Asian individuals, as East Asian individuals might think that long and frequent eye contact could present an unapproachable impression. Further studies are necessary to better understand how cultural norms modulate eye contact behaviours.

*not a formal study. But I did find street walkers, prostitutes in bars and clubs, almost universally sought direct eye contact with potential customers in Seattle, Portland, Los Angeles, Washington DC, New York City, and Atlanta. Successful contact resulted in at least conversation, often contract, in my observations. These informal observations are in line with the results of the study re: eye contact cited above.

There are actually very few studies as robust as the one above and, as far as I can determine, the only one fitting requirements you require.
 

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If you can show a connection between some kind of particular sexual attraction which is dependent on social factors, I would like to see that.

Sound seems to attract male rats. Strong direct eye contact seems to attract western cultural male customers.* Both are dominant sensory modes attended to by males of species. As for the development of eye contact and eye avoidance behavior many studies have linked them to social customs.

[h=1]Attention to Eye Contact in the West and East: Autonomic Responses and Evaluative Ratings https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0059312[/h]
The current study investigated cultural differences (East Asian vs. Western Europeans) in response to eye contact with another (real) person. The results revealed that eye contact elicited stronger heart rate deceleration responses, shorter looking times, and higher ratings of subjective arousal as compared to a face displaying an averted gaze in both cultures. By contrast, cultural differences related to eye contact were observed in various evaluative responses (e.g., facial emotion, approachability etc.) to the models presenting different gaze directions. These results suggest that cultural differences in eye contact behaviour mainly emerge from differential display rules and cultural norms rather than from the effects of culture on the development of behavioural and physiological responses to direct gaze. The rating results suggest that individuals from an East Asian culture perceive another's face as angrier and more unapproachable and unpleasant when making eye contact as compared to individuals from a Western European culture. The rating results also suggest that direct vs. averted gaze can have differential influences on perceptions about another person's facial affect and disposition. Given that eye contact is crucial for daily interpersonal communication, the current results provide unique insight into how we behave in front of others. These results also have the potential for facilitating effective cross-cultural communication. For example, East Asian individuals should not overinterpret the eye contact of Western European individuals as signalling anger, and Western European individuals should tolerate shorter and less frequent eye contact with East Asian individuals, as East Asian individuals might think that long and frequent eye contact could present an unapproachable impression. Further studies are necessary to better understand how cultural norms modulate eye contact behaviours.

*not a formal study. But I did find street walkers, prostitutes in bars and clubs, almost universally sought direct eye contact with potential customers in Seattle, Portland, Los Angeles, Washington DC, New York City, and Atlanta. Successful contact resulted in at least conversation, often contract, in my observations. These informal observations are in line with the results of the study re: eye contact cited above.

There are actually very few studies as robust as the one above and, as far as I can determine, the only one fitting requirements you require.

I appreciate the effort, but I don't see any individual's particular sexual attraction being influenced by social pressures in any of this. It would seem social pressures would be more likely to push individuals toward the norm, not the abnorm.
 

funcouple-husband

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WOW, it is very interesting how this thread has kept going after I got off the forum a few days ago. Good to see!! Well, now that I am back with my own profile, I am going to get caught up on what has been going on and (if you don't mind??) get re-involved with the thread that I started.
 

funcouple-husband

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This is a good topic for the Morals & Principles subforum.

Why was/is masturbation often seen as immoral (to at least some degree)?

I don't know.

It is true that Christianity, for example, has tended to frown on it, and even today it is still considered a sin in many denominations.

My guess is that the answer to the question is multiple. Humans being a social species, we often frown on 'selfish' behaviours. And of course reproduction is the be all and end all 'goal' (consciously intended or otherwise) of every successful species, and one can't generally reproduce by having sex with oneself.

Why would the act of masturbation be considered selfish if the person doing it is single and has no partner (married or not) that he or she is responsible for satisfying sexually or if they do have a partner is fulfilling both the needs of their partner along with satisfying themselves. No one seems to be getting short changed. Example...if is guy is jacking to porn and has no interest in having sex with his wife, he has a problem.
 

steve_bank

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People masturbate. People routinely talk about it. It is spouted by a sex toy industry.

Is sticking a dildo in your butt selfish or is it shared with someone? Selfish by yourself. Not selfish if you have someone getting pleasure from shoving it in your butt for you. A simple but obvious dichotomy.

Selfish loner versus somebody who interacts with people.

Masturbation by definition is self gratification. You phantasise about someone who is unattainable. Like Hillary Clinton.

The issue is when it becomes obsessive to the exclusion of other experiences. Or living in a fantasy world.
 

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Sound seems to attract male rats. Strong direct eye contact seems to attract western cultural male customers.* Both are dominant sensory modes attended to by males of species. As for the development of eye contact and eye avoidance behavior many studies have linked them to social customs.

I appreciate the effort, but I don't see any individual's particular sexual attraction being influenced by social pressures in any of this. It would seem social pressures would be more likely to push individuals toward the norm, not the abnorm.

We're not talking social pressure. I presented information about certain arousal and attending tendencies being influenced by social factors such as acceptance and rejection and attraction and disgust within different social systems. I also said social customs not social pressure.

A perversion of an instinct or genetically derived activity, eye contact, that diverts normal use in a society of linking of attraction and recognition mechanisms instead with sexual arousal rather than attraction or general arousal can be said to be an exhibit of addictive behavior. I'm using the addictive term as compulsive behavior outside normal tendencies to friendship or awareness and recognition. It is not genetic, not hormone based, not instinct based within normal social hierarchies. It is a social mistake.
 

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Why would the act of masturbation be considered selfish if the person doing it is single and has no partner (married or not) that he or she is responsible for satisfying sexually or if they do have a partner is fulfilling both the needs of their partner along with satisfying themselves. No one seems to be getting short changed. Example...if is guy is jacking to porn and has no interest in having sex with his wife, he has a problem.

It is selfish in a genetic fitness sense. iI is also considered addictive because as you earlier described your practice you do it to the exclusion of other attractive options. I suspect the problem the one has is with how his systems work and how her systems work. In other words they are probably not very fit, have heart problems, are old. Have you ever heard of sublimation?
 

Bronzeage

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Sound seems to attract male rats. Strong direct eye contact seems to attract western cultural male customers.* Both are dominant sensory modes attended to by males of species. As for the development of eye contact and eye avoidance behavior many studies have linked them to social customs.

I appreciate the effort, but I don't see any individual's particular sexual attraction being influenced by social pressures in any of this. It would seem social pressures would be more likely to push individuals toward the norm, not the abnorm.

We're not talking social pressure. I presented information about certain arousal and attending tendencies being influenced by social factors such as acceptance and rejection and attraction and disgust within different social systems. I also said social customs not social pressure.

A perversion of an instinct or genetically derived activity, eye contact, that diverts normal use in a society of linking of attraction and recognition mechanisms instead with sexual arousal rather than attraction or general arousal can be said to be an exhibit of addictive behavior. I'm using the addictive term as compulsive behavior outside normal tendencies to friendship or awareness and recognition. It is not genetic, not hormone based, not instinct based within normal social hierarchies. It is a social mistake.

I'm just going by this statement:
I said abnormal sexual attraction is more dependent on social that hormonal factors.
 

steve_bank

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All this talk is making me Horney. Think I'll go on line and order me an escort tonight.Sex for anthing but procreation as prevision is an Abrahamic phenomena mostly.

The RCC says condoms are a sin.

Male chimps will submit to dry humping as a sign of ending a dispute.

Male lions in captivity will dry hump a wall.

Sometimes it builds up and has to be released.

Back in the early 70s I had a girlfriend from the middle class burbs. We were in the shower after sex and she had an epiphany. She exclaimed 'Sex isn't dirty!'. The feeling of sex and doing something wrong is part of the Christian culture in this country.

Along with that is the idea women are not supposed to enjoy sex. When I was growing up women who did could be considered trashy.

The problem we are in heat 24/7 instead of a few months a year.


Personally I think there are limits to what can be considered healthy sexual expression and gratification. Porn where a group of men repeatedly come in the mouth of a usually younger girl says what? I consider it dehumanizing at this point. I Sado masochism and sex. Sexual focus on children. If a woman wants to tied up and whipped while having sex we can say it is her choice. To me it is bizarre and twisted.
 

Jolly_Penguin

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Masturbation is natural stress relief. Its as natural as eating, sleeping, burping, or taking a dump. Its nothing to be ashamed of or proud of. It just is.
 

funcouple-husband

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It wasn't supposed to make any mores sense than comparing drinking addiction with sex addiction. I accept they are seen by some as addictions. One is driven by genetics while the other is driven by social factors mainly lust. It's up to you to figure out which is which.*

*hint some get thirsty before the become drowsy others don't.

When did sexual attraction become a socially driven behavior? Are you saying I started to really like girls around age 12 because I saw other boys behaving as if they did?

I say sexual attraction is driven by hormones and sexual behavior is driven by social acceptance. Unless you are a person like me and don't care about public acceptance and my sexual behavior, for many, unacceptable and weird, but secretly intriguing for most. Am I wrong there?
 

southernhybrid

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This is a good topic for the Morals & Principles subforum.

Why was/is masturbation often seen as immoral (to at least some degree)?

I don't know.

It is true that Christianity, for example, has tended to frown on it, and even today it is still considered a sin in many denominations.

My guess is that the answer to the question is multiple. Humans being a social species, we often frown on 'selfish' behaviours. And of course reproduction is the be all and end all 'goal' (consciously intended or otherwise) of every successful species, and one can't generally reproduce by having sex with oneself.

Well, since you asked, I think it's primarily Catholics that think masturbation is a "sin". But, some very conservative Protestant Christians also believe that. The Bible never mentions it at all, but the belief is based on the silly idea that sex is only for procreation. I was raised by fundamentalist Christians and the topic never came up. In fact, I never even knew there was such a thing until I was around 18. Yes I'm serious. Until I was about 19, I had a very sheltered life. Plus, that was back in the 50s and 60s, when most people didn't talk about sex.

On the other hand, I discovered my son at age 5, using a back vibrator that I had, to massage his genitals. He didn't realize that I saw him, so I quickly slipped away so he wouldn't know. I don't know if boys always discover the pleasurable sensations that come with massaging the genitals at earlier ages than girls do.

Anyway, it's very sad that some religions have made people feel guilty about what comes so natural to us. As long as it's consensual, I don't judge other people for their sexual fetishes. But, anything that becomes an addiction can certainly be a problem, as it takes away from some of the other wonderful things to enjoy in life. Still, I'm not one to judge. I'm not even sure how one defines a "sex addict". I guess to me, an addiction is something that takes over your life and keeps you from being able to function properly in other situations.

http://www.ncregister.com/blog/christianbrugger/is-masturbation-always-wrong


Q. I am 78 years old and have been married to my wife for 53 years. Lately I have begun to experience periodic impotence. My doctor recommends masturbation as he thinks my problem is psychological. Under these circumstances can masturbation be legitimate? Thank you.

A. The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) has this to say about masturbation:

“By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. ‘Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action.’ ‘The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.’ For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of ‘the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved’ [internal quotes from Persona Humana, 9]” (2352).

The Catechism defines masturbation here, in fact two times, as the deliberate stimulation of the genitals in order to derive sexual pleasure. So the desired end is sexual pleasure, and the means by which that end is pursued is the stimulation of the genitals. And the Catechism teaches that choosing these means for that end is gravely disordered and always wrong.

Isn't it sad that a religion that has a long history of exploiting children and others sexually, tells an older adult not to stimulate his genitals? So many aspects of religion are fucked up. If they were more knowledgable about evolution, they'd realize that both chimps and bonobos likely influenced the human sex drive. Bonobos are always ready for sex, while most female animals are only ready when they are fertile, leaving the males all ready to fight for the women. Too bad, we still have some human males who never evolved beyond that point, But, I digress.

The thing is that goofy Catholic answer says that all sex outside of marriage is a sin. So, what if the wife watches while the husband masturbates? Isn't that a form of martial sex? I'd say so. Some Catholics don't even.think a couple should have sex once they are too old to make babies. Sad!

I will say this. Most of my friends were Catholic when I was growing up and most of them ignored much of the nonsense that the church spouted. My best friend's parents always used birth control, so they only had two children. Some of my husband's extended family had 8 children. They were all known as "good Catholics." Hopefully, most believers don't fall for all of the bullshit they are told.
 

steve_bank

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The anus did not evolve to accept the penis and the mouth did not evolve to receive sperm.

Sex is pleasurable because it is supposed to, procreation is important. Little else is as pleasurable.
It is seen as a corruption of natural impulses.

It is using sex for gratification other than procreation that some religious object to. A corruption of natural impulse. Eliminating liquid and solid waste is also pleasurable. You can say anal sex is a corruption of a natural function.

Someone who was focused on or fascinated by anal sections IMO has a psychological problem.
If we go down the path that most all in search of pleasure is normal with few exceptions than normal becomes pleasure in any way by any means.

There are clit battery powered stimulators women wear during the day with a remote switch for a buzz during the day.

People wear butt plugs. All that to me is bizarre and repents loss of self esteem and image. A need for constant sexual stimulation.
 

Keith&Co.

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It is seen as a corruption of natural impulses.
Only uf you do it right.... i suggest some wime and a few stretching exercises.

Thing is, if we are talking evolution as a design process, it has no final goal. No judgment.
Even if a gazillion generations of reproduction ended with penis-in-vagina intercourse, there is no power or evolutionary force which will be disappointed if you stick it in anus, armpit, mouth, ear, or stretch out the urethra in your dick to accept your partner's penis.

Hell, the whole of evolution is trial-and-error, so you can NOT pervert natural urges by trial, or by error.
If you have the urge and it does not render you exiled from the gene pool, nature don't give a fuck no pun intended.

People wear butt plugs. All that to me is bizarre and repents loss of self esteem and image. A need for constant sexual stimulation.
Seems confused. If sex is the ultimate pleasure, wouldn't it seem natural to seek more and more of it?
Unless you want to see restaint or moderation as more pleasurable than sex...?
 

funcouple-husband

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It is seen as a corruption of natural impulses.
Only uf you do it right.... i suggest some wime and a few stretching exercises.

Thing is, if we are talking evolution as a design process, it has no final goal. No judgment.
Even if a gazillion generations of reproduction ended with penis-in-vagina intercourse, there is no power or evolutionary force which will be disappointed if you stick it in anus, armpit, mouth, ear, or stretch out the urethra in your dick to accept your partner's penis.

Hell, the whole of evolution is trial-and-error, so you can NOT pervert natural urges by trial, or by error.
If you have the urge and it does not render you exiled from the gene pool, nature don't give a fuck no pun intended.

People wear butt plugs. All that to me is bizarre and repents loss of self esteem and image. A need for constant sexual stimulation.
Seems confused. If sex is the ultimate pleasure, wouldn't it seem natural to seek more and more of it?
Unless you want to see restaint or moderation as more pleasurable than sex...?

your second to last sentence struck home for me and the way I approach masturbation, every stage of the act of masturbation is the ultimate pleasure for me. jack off foreplay with hot porn, watching my cock go to full erection, lengthy cock and ball sack message, the feeling of the approaching climax and the urge to holding off as long as possible, the un-controllable sounds that are individual to each one of us and the final explosion of cream. For most that is the end of the self sex experience for now but for me that is just the end of round one and the challenge begins to achieve repeating rounds. Thus, the seeking of more and more of the pleasure.
 

steve_bank

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I was not passing judgments.

The question is do we strive for a finer reality or do we rut around in the bushes having sex all the time. If we see ourselves as carnal animals then in the end all bets are off.

Go back to tribalism and fighting for survival. What modern history shows us that civilization is a thin veneer and it does not tale much to break down. Social norms are part of social cohesion. Can our civilization survive with no or little social norms?

I think the conservatives do have a valid point. If it is all self gratification what happens? We are seeing social breakdown everyday. The rise in gun violence. It is all related to social norms. Starting in the 60s drugs became normalized by music and Hollywood. We reap what we sow, large scale drug abuse problems across all levels of society. The protestant norm of delayed gratification is gone.

No sex norms may seem innocuous but socially it is part of a larger phenomena.

Despite the negatives in a community religion always kept a lid on things socially.

I will not be here, the next 50-100 years will see it all play out.

Social changes in history can have unintended consequences.
 

steve_bank

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I am sorry but 'having an approach' to masturbation' is absurd at best. You wack off and it releases tension and feels good. Anything else is rationalization.
 
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