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Meanwhile in speak softly, carry a big stick...

If the GOP doesn't do everything in their power to remove him, they're complicit too.

Seriously, show some fucking leadership.
 
LordKiran said:
funinspace said:
Well there are a few differences. The Iraqi army wasn't just 35 miles from say Riyadh with shitloads of missiles and artillery. It's not just a giant sand lot. Saddam didn't have a mutual defense treaty with a 500lb gorilla. And Saddam was dumb enough to think that sitting there for 6 months while the US built up a pretty massive force, was somehow going to work out differently than it did. The fat kid only has to look back at that recent sequence and ponder any huge US build up. Never mind what the PRC would think of a massive US buildup without a nuanced agreement about what happens next, but just having FFvC's tweets to ponder. Also, would SK be accepting of a massive US buildup, like SA did and wanted?

The PRC might not mind the US destroying NK nuclear facilities, as long as we didn't invade, but they most probably don't want a unified Korea with the US military poised to be on their doorstep. But if we just destroyed NK nuclear facilities, would the fat kid just sit back and take it? Or would he unleash his army in an attack on Seoul? It is fairly easy to tell how it could begin. But it is much harder to tell how it would end. Attacking NK, in whatever form, cowboy style would be quite reckless. But building a coalition of regional players that work towards a common purpose would be quite the deal for a real statesman. To bad we currently have a clown...
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In a lot of practical ways, NK is part of the PCR already so if Korea unified under SK the game wouldn't be much different, US forces still have a launching point for invasion directly on their doorstep, a tiny march between the two isn't going to make much difference when you consider how fast armies can move now and how large China is to begin with.
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LOL...practical? Try explaining your idea to the PRC generals. We have roughly 30,000 soldiers within SK, which is only enough for deterrence and an immediate short term blocking action towards any invasion. We may currently have a doorstep in SK, but would SK allow the kind of build up that SA wanted for the invasion of Iraq? We might be able to move fast by air to destroy shit, but we can't move the kinds of army stuff needed for a full combat/invasion of NK fast. That takes weeks if not months to do, as the Iraq invasion demonstrated. Of course if one is willing to accept much higher casualty rates, one can attack sooner. Our military has been relatively safe in Iraq and Afghanistan due to such overwhelming power. However, when we wanted to clean out the back alleys, it got much more bloody and deadly. And the PRC has rail lines right up to NK.

Also, think about how anal the US political/military body considered commies near the US doorsteps during the last half century...then consider the situation from the PRC's perspective.

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rousseau said:
If the GOP doesn't do everything in their power to remove him, they're complicit too.
Click to expand...
Luv that swampy fragrance...

Seriously, show some fucking leadership.
Click to expand...
Say what?
 
funinspace said:
LordKiran said:
In a lot of practical ways, NK is part of the PCR already so if Korea unified under SK the game wouldn't be much different, US forces still have a launching point for invasion directly on their doorstep, a tiny march between the two isn't going to make much difference when you consider how fast armies can move now and how large China is to begin with.
Click to expand...
LOL...practical? Try explaining your idea to the PRC generals. We have roughly 30,000 soldiers within SK, which is only enough for deterrence and an immediate short term blocking action towards any invasion. We may currently have a doorstep in SK, but would SK allow the kind of build up that SA wanted for the invasion of Iraq? We might be able to move fast by air to destroy shit, but we can't move the kinds of army stuff needed for a full combat/invasion of NK fast. That takes weeks if not months to do, as the Iraq invasion demonstrated. Of course if one is willing to accept much higher casualty rates, one can attack sooner. Our military has been relatively safe in Iraq and Afghanistan due to such overwhelming power. However, when we wanted to clean out the back alleys, it got much more bloody and deadly. And the PRC has rail lines right up to NK.

Also, think about how anal the US political/military body considered commies near the US doorsteps during the last half century...then consider the situation from the PRC's perspective.

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rousseau said:
If the GOP doesn't do everything in their power to remove him, they're complicit too.
Click to expand...
Luv that swampy fragrance...

Seriously, show some fucking leadership.
Click to expand...
Say what?
Click to expand...

Oh I see what you're saying, but between SK and Japan, we already have that foot in the door so-to-speak. NK existing doesn't change that so what's the practical difference if they're there or not there? China already has a notable civilian presence in NK with the PCR settling entire towns within NK's borders, so I don't think its wrong to consider them a sort of weird quasi-tributary or client state of sorts.
 
ZiprHead said:
rousseau said:
If the GOP doesn't do everything in their power to remove him, they're complicit too.

Seriously, show some fucking leadership.
Click to expand...

This may be why.
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The one nagging thing that bother me the whole time regarding the SCOTUS pick and Merrick Garland was that there seemed to be an excessive amount of risk with an almost certain Clinton nominee verses the very moderate (can something be very moderate?) Garland. This could help fill in a gap here and there.
 
Elixir said:
Tom Sawyer said:
Dear Americans,

Thank you so much for giving this man your nuclear launch codes. We feel that the planet is a much safer and more secure place now than it was a few months ago.

Thank you,

The Rest of the World
Click to expand...

Don't worry - with Cheato it's "Speak bigly and carry a soft stick."
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Reminds me of Chairman Mao, 'In waking a sleeping tiger use a long stick.'
The problem is, this issue was left far too long by China and the USA who failed to act. N. Korea knew this but while I'm sure it bluffed in the early stages, we're not sure how far advanced it could be. Hint's from N Korea that it is not that far advanced could really mean it is.
 
If the world is to get a reminder of the horrors of nuclear war it's good that will involve such a small player that the damage will be limited.
 
Khaleesi Trump watches too much GoT.
 
Loren Pechtel said:
If the world is to get a reminder of the horrors of nuclear war it's good that will involve such a small player that the damage will be limited.
Click to expand...
*Higgins points to large politically significant nation that is right next door*
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
Loren Pechtel said:
If the world is to get a reminder of the horrors of nuclear war it's good that will involve such a small player that the damage will be limited.
Click to expand...
*Higgins points to large politically significant nation that is right next door*
Click to expand...

Said nation also has an immediate interest in making sure that their protectorate doesn't provoke the wrong people, so it will be interesting to see what happens over the next year.
 
funinspace said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
Well "Shock and Awe" worked very well. So well, the Iraqi military didn't fight back. Too bad the game just doesn't end there and rolls some needless credits.
Click to expand...
Well there are a few differences. The Iraqi army wasn't just 35 miles from say Riyadh with shitloads of missiles and artillery. It's not just a giant sand lot. Saddam didn't have a mutual defense treaty with a 500lb gorilla. And Saddam was dumb enough to think that sitting there for 6 months while the US built up a pretty massive force, was somehow going to work out differently than it did. The fat kid only has to look back at that recent sequence and ponder any huge US build up. Never mind what the PRC would think of a massive US buildup without a nuanced agreement about what happens next, but just having FFvC's tweets to ponder. Also, would SK be accepting of a massive US buildup, like SA did and wanted?

The PRC might not mind the US destroying NK nuclear facilities, as long as we didn't invade, but they most probably don't want a unified Korea with the US military poised to be on their doorstep. But if we just destroyed NK nuclear facilities, would the fat kid just sit back and take it? Or would he unleash his army in an attack on Seoul? It is fairly easy to tell how it could begin. But it is much harder to tell how it would end. Attacking NK, in whatever form, cowboy style would be quite reckless. But building a coalition of regional players that work towards a common purpose would be quite the deal for a real statesman. To bad we currently have a clown...
Click to expand...

Who says PRC wouldn't want the US to invade North Korea. It would save it (PRC) the inconvenience and associated problems with doing so.

North Korea is still using equipment supplied by the Soviets in the 1970s. It has no aircraft carriers and most of its ships are patrol boats and out of date aircraft.

In a conventional war North Korea would be at a disadvantage but not to be underestimated by any means.

China has frequently massed troops at the North Korean border, claiming though this was to stop refugees fleeing.
 
whichphilosophy said:
funinspace said:
Well there are a few differences. The Iraqi army wasn't just 35 miles from say Riyadh with shitloads of missiles and artillery. It's not just a giant sand lot. Saddam didn't have a mutual defense treaty with a 500lb gorilla. And Saddam was dumb enough to think that sitting there for 6 months while the US built up a pretty massive force, was somehow going to work out differently than it did. The fat kid only has to look back at that recent sequence and ponder any huge US build up. Never mind what the PRC would think of a massive US buildup without a nuanced agreement about what happens next, but just having FFvC's tweets to ponder. Also, would SK be accepting of a massive US buildup, like SA did and wanted?

The PRC might not mind the US destroying NK nuclear facilities, as long as we didn't invade, but they most probably don't want a unified Korea with the US military poised to be on their doorstep. But if we just destroyed NK nuclear facilities, would the fat kid just sit back and take it? Or would he unleash his army in an attack on Seoul? It is fairly easy to tell how it could begin. But it is much harder to tell how it would end. Attacking NK, in whatever form, cowboy style would be quite reckless. But building a coalition of regional players that work towards a common purpose would be quite the deal for a real statesman. To bad we currently have a clown...
Click to expand...

Who says PRC wouldn't want the US to invade North Korea. It would save it (PRC) the inconvenience and associated problems with doing so.
Click to expand...
PRC's actions and words say quite clearly that they have generally been satisfied with the past status quo. The PRC has been NK's largest benefactor for a long time; and they could have squashed the tin pot dictatorship anytime they felt like it in the past with great ease. Who's to say that FFvC isn't really a space alien lizard in drag...
 
LordKiran said:
funinspace said:
LOL...practical? Try explaining your idea to the PRC generals. We have roughly 30,000 soldiers within SK, which is only enough for deterrence and an immediate short term blocking action towards any invasion. We may currently have a doorstep in SK, but would SK allow the kind of build up that SA wanted for the invasion of Iraq? We might be able to move fast by air to destroy shit, but we can't move the kinds of army stuff needed for a full combat/invasion of NK fast. That takes weeks if not months to do, as the Iraq invasion demonstrated. Of course if one is willing to accept much higher casualty rates, one can attack sooner. Our military has been relatively safe in Iraq and Afghanistan due to such overwhelming power. However, when we wanted to clean out the back alleys, it got much more bloody and deadly. And the PRC has rail lines right up to NK.

Also, think about how anal the US political/military body considered commies near the US doorsteps during the last half century...then consider the situation from the PRC's perspective.

- - - Updated - - -

rousseau said:
If the GOP doesn't do everything in their power to remove him, they're complicit too.
Click to expand...
Luv that swampy fragrance...

Seriously, show some fucking leadership.
Click to expand...
Say what?
Click to expand...

Oh I see what you're saying, but between SK and Japan, we already have that foot in the door so-to-speak. NK existing doesn't change that so what's the practical difference if they're there or not there? China already has a notable civilian presence in NK with the PCR settling entire towns within NK's borders, so I don't think its wrong to consider them a sort of weird quasi-tributary or client state of sorts.
Click to expand...
Yes, I agree that NK is a client state of the PRC. However, I disagree on comments about 'no practical difference' as I don't see the PRC leadership thinking in your 'practical' terms. Also, if NK is a client state, then the PRC looses prestige if it allows NK to fall to western powers. The PRC, much like the US politicians, probably get real uppity when perceived outsiders gain more influence in their backyard. Why did the US get all worked up about minor countries like Cuba and Nicaragua trying to go commie? Of course it is possible that the PRC is getting concerned about their pet dictator going rogue on them...but so far there isn't much going on in the public arena to suggest that they are very concerned.
 
ZiprHead said:
Today's Nukes Are Thousands of Times More Powerful Than WWII A-Bombs
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Certainly not "thousands". Sure,Castle Bravo, the most powerful bomb ever detonated by US, yielded 15 MT, or 1000x of the "Little Boy" yield (15kt), and USSR's Czar Bomba was even more powerful than that. But certainly Czar Bomba was a show piece, just showing off the big stick.
Most nuclear bombs in the arsenal today have yields in the 100s of kt. Upping the yield ever more is not that desireable because the effects are sublinear with yield for the most part. An interesting tool to compare different yields (in your own hometown if you want) is Nukemap.
That's why American Trident SLBMs have ~10 MIRVs (multiple independently targetable reentry vehicle) with for example a 500kt W88 warhead each. The destructive power is dignificantly higher than a single 5MT bomb would have. Modern nukes also have features such as "dial-a-yield" which allows one to set the yield of the weapon on the fly.
 
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What would it take for NK to detonate an EMP-type bomb over central USA? It wouldn't have to be terribly accurate and they then might not have to solve the burning-up-during-reentry problem.
 
Treedbear said:
What would it take for NK to detonate an EMP-type bomb over central USA? It wouldn't have to be terribly accurate and they then might not have to solve the burning-up-during-reentry problem.
Click to expand...

Huh? With nuclear subs cruising all around their little fiefdom, that would be a truly crazy thing to do.
Not that the little fat kid isn't crazy, but THAT crazy? I doubt it.
 
Treedbear said:
What would it take for NK to detonate an EMP-type bomb over central USA? It wouldn't have to be terribly accurate and they then might not have to solve the burning-up-during-reentry problem.
Click to expand...
Central US? That's about 6500 miles away from Korea.
So they'd need to have a missile with a range of about 11 to 13,000 miles, for it to still be up above the thicker part of the atmosphere when it detonates. That's a serious upgrade to the technology they've shown so far...

At the range of 6500 miles, one degree of error in the launch calculations, or the missile's operation, misses the intended target by 113 miles. So if they just want to piss off some random Americans (or Canadians)(or Mexicans), it may work, but accuracy would still be important to have a significant effect on a given city.

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Elixir said:
Not that the little fat kid isn't crazy, but THAT crazy? I doubt it.
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Doesn't matter if HE'S crazy.
It's the people around him. Do they say, Yes, sir, and push the button?
Or do they push the fake button and jsut TELL him he nuked the US. And golly, are they sorry they mess with us, Supereme Leader.
 
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