Muhammed Ali has passed away

[Thomas II]

 

[gmbteach]

Derec,

Let's understand that you do not like the man. TBH if Justin Beiber were to pass away, or Kanye West, I wouldn't care as I don't like them. To speak ill of the dead though? That is not something I understand.

Let's just say that, in the eyes of many, he was a great man, and he will be missed.

Gaynor

 

[repoman]

anyway, draft refuser is accurate - not draft dodger.

The end of this video is very good:



We need more ethnic nationalism in America! Racially proud latinos, asians, blacks and whites!

The only problem is that this led to things like the Black Panthers, which was not the problem. The actual disaster happened when places with larger black populations had gun control happen because of white people's fear of black nationalists. Legally disarming honest blacks in areas like Chicago was a disaster. A proud black father couldn't protect his family anymore.

This is interesting:

Civil-rights activists, even those committed to nonviolent resistance, had long appreciated the value of guns for self-protection. Martin Luther King Jr. applied for a permit to carry a concealed firearm in 1956, after his house was bombed. His application was denied, but from then on, armed supporters guarded his home. One adviser, Glenn Smiley, described the King home as “an arsenal.” William Worthy, a black reporter who covered the civil-rights movement, almost sat on a loaded gun in a living-room armchair during a visit to King’s parsonage.

 

[bigfield]

Another version with the country restriction:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SV75aFzC1aQ

 

[Playball40]

Derec,

Did you ever meet Ali?

I did. He used to come to the restaurant I worked at when I was in my early 20's... he always sat in my station when he was in. He was already clearly suffering from Parkinson's by that time, but he was a very nice man. Always polite and gentle and funny... not what I would expect out of a boxer.

You will never change your opinion, I know. Mostly, I think, because Ali was a black man, and well... it appears to me that the only black men you like are dead black men.

Mohammed Ali is dead. We know that makes you happy. So perhaps now you could just ignore this thread and leave the rest of us - including me who actually knew the man - in peace.

He came to my high school too. Honestly, I don't know anything about him at all and am learning most of it from this thread. I had not interest in boxing so I never followed. I know he changed his name, converted religions and...stung like a bee or something.

His daughter compared him to Nelson Mandela this morning. Now, I get that he was her father and I'm sure SHE feels that way, but was his contribution to society really equivalent? I'm just curious.

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Derec,

Let's understand that you do not like the man. TBH if Justin Beiber were to pass away, or Kanye West, I wouldn't care as I don't like them. To speak ill of the dead though? That is not something I understand.

Let's just say that, in the eyes of many, he was a great man, and he will be missed.

Gaynor

If Beiber passed away, I would be very sad for his parents and sad that such a young man died. I don't know anything about him so couldn't really feel "emotional" about it. I grieved for over a week when David Bowie died - he was much more of an influence in my life.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I'm curious as to why someone would be confused or even angry when a black person gets angry with an anti-black establishment in the country he lived in.

 

[repoman]

I agree, Jimmy.

 

[Ford]

I'm curious as to why someone would be confused or even angry when a black person gets angry with an anti-black establishment in the country he lived in.

To paraphrase Yoda, lack of education leads to confusion, confusion leads to anger, anger leads to being a horrible person that sounds very much like a racist.

Cassius Clay was hardly the only black man angry with the situation back then. He was just able to parlay his fame into being invited on white television to talk about why.

But if you take what he said out of context, and view it through several levels of bullshit about how white people are the real victims, one could understand why someone would wind up confused and angry and horrible.

 

[Derec]

I'm curious as to why someone would be confused or even angry when a black person gets angry with an anti-black establishment in the country he lived in.

Being angry at racism is admirable. Being racist himself is not.

To paraphrase Yoda, lack of education leads to confusion, confusion leads to anger, anger leads to being a horrible person that sounds very much like a racist.

If you mean this to be a summary to MA, you'd be spot on.

Cassius Clay was hardly the only black man angry with the situation back then. He was just able to parlay his fame into being invited on white television to talk about why.

If that was what he did he'd actually be admirable. But his "talk about why" included claims that white people are literal devils, as taught by the racist cult (NoI) he joined.
Using his fame to decry racism is very different than spreading racism. Especially since he and white racists agreed on some things.

But if you take what he said out of context,

Please explain to me how his claims that white people are devils are taken out of context? Or his views against racial mixing?

 

[Ford]

Please explain to me how his claims that white people are devils are taken out of context?

Please explain to me how you don't understand what the word "context" means?

 

[Derec]

Please explain to me how you don't understand what the word "context" means?

I understand what the word context means. For example, Cassius Clay calling white people 'devils' has the context of Nation of Islam dogma where white people were created by ancient black scientist named Yakub as a 'race of devils'.

 

[Ford]

Please explain to me how you don't understand what the word "context" means?

I understand what the word context means. For example, Cassius Clay calling white people 'devils' has the context of Nation of Islam dogma where white people were created by ancient black scientist named Yakub as a 'race of devils'.

That's right. I forget. You're judging 1960s Cassius Clay, and deliberately ignoring 50 years of his life.

 

[fromderinside]

Please explain to me how you don't understand what the word "context" means?

I understand what the word context means. For example, Cassius Clay calling white people 'devils' has the context of Nation of Islam dogma where white people were created by ancient black scientist named Yakub as a 'race of devils'.

The context is that of a bright 21 year old black man from Louisville in 1962 who barely made it through high school being treated as if he represented voice for a position relevant to his condition.

What the F***!

 

[repoman]

The representative of all black people

ever

 

[Ford]

The representative of all black people

ever

Imagine for a moment Derec being the spokesman for all white men.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Maybe we need a new Sub-forum for Derec titled, "People who aren't white males that piss Derec off".

 

[bleubird]

Maybe we need a new Sub-forum for Derec titled, "People who aren't white males that piss Derec off".

^^this

 

[Derec]

The context is that of a bright 21 year old black man from Louisville in 1962 who barely made it through high school being treated as if he represented voice for a position relevant to his condition.

- Clay/Ali only left NoI in 1975, at the age of 33.
- The only reason I treat him as a "voice" etc. is because the media is portraying him as such, but largely uncritically. He has even been treated as some sort of civil rights hero by some media outlets.
- If he was so bright (prior to having his brain mashed) why did he barely make it through high school?

What the F***!

I ask myself the same thing.

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^^this

Wrong, but nice to see that the usual suspects are quick with the ad hominems.

 

[Ford]

- Clay/Ali only left NoI in 1975

That was like, yesterday!

 

[whichphilosophy]

- Clay/Ali only left NoI in 1975, at the age of 33.
- The only reason I treat him as a "voice" etc. is because the media is portraying him as such, but largely uncritically. He has even been treated as some sort of civil rights hero by some media outlets.
- If he was so bright (prior to having his brain mashed) why did he barely make it through high school?

What the F***!

I ask myself the same thing.

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^^this

Wrong, but nice to see that the usual suspects are quick with the ad hominems.

Given the circumstances in the 1960's there was good reason to consider at least some whites as devils and especially when referring to state governments at the time.

As for the draft, so what. Blacks and whites objected to this senseless war in trying to prop up a corrupt regime in South Vietnam, that resulted in the needless deaths of Americans.

A lot of people never made it through high school. Simon Cowell for instance. He started work in a record company at 14 as a mail delivery boy.

Richard Branson dropped out at 15 US Businessman Joe Lewis who also dropped out at 15, is worth $US5.3 billion
French multi millionaire Francois Pinault dropped out at 11. He owns Christie's Auction House worth US$12.9 billion plus other assets.
Nowadays I believe boxing associations are more cautious with respect to the welfare of boxers, but injuries are a hazard of the job.