• Welcome to the new Internet Infidels Discussion Board, formerly Talk Freethought.

Multiple "personalities" and split-brain experiments, etc

excreationist

excreationist

Married mouth-breather
Joined
Aug 28, 2000
Messages
2,641
Location
Australia
Basic Beliefs
Probably in a simulation
By multiple personalities I mean having different "minds"... like Freud and id, ego and superego... or the different cognitive functions in MBTI.

I found some information here - I assume it is accurate:
though he calls them "conscious agents" and they aren't necessarily self-aware
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmieNQH7Q4w
1:42:00
There's a different personality in the left hemisphere than the right hemisphere one. In one case the left hemisphere believed in God the right hemisphere was an atheist. The left hemisphere wanted to be have a desk job the right hemisphere wanted to be a race car driver and they can even fight. The left hemisphere controls the right hand the right hemisphere controls the left hand and the they can fight. The left hand can be fighting what the right hand is doing. You know trying to cook the left hand might destroy an omelet that you're making. You try to put on some clothes - the left hand might be taking off the clothes the right hand is trying to put on
Click to expand...
1:57:18
they would they were able um to get these split brain patients to have to play 20 questions with each other with themselves you the right hemisphere has a word in mind the left hemisphere doesn't know what it is and then the left hemisphere which can talk can start asking questions is it uh animal is it vegetable is it mineral things like that and the right hemisphere which can't talk but can understand language can use say the left hand to thumbs up for yes thumbs down for no and so these a split brain patient has two separate spheres of consciousness so separate that they can play 20 questions and the left hemisphere doesn't know the answer right the left hemisphere does not know and sometimes will fail to guess in 20 questions what's in the mind of the...
Click to expand...
I think "Being John Malkovich" is revelant. It involves old people going into a mind for their afterlife. They would be able to sometimes affect that mind. Then one of the characters goes into the mind but can not interact with the person at all...

I wonder if those concepts in "Being John Malkovich" are based on any old or ancient ideas?

BTW sometimes I have a self-gratifying personality and my self-disciplined personality fights with it - like when I think that I "should" get out of bed. The struggle is quite intense even though it only lasts a couple seconds. If I had got into a habit then the association with the self-disciplined personality would strengthen.

Perhaps Christianity also is relevant... I think there is something about the sinful self and there could be a new self, etc.

BTW in 2019 I was admitted into a mental ward. I believed that both sides of me were verbal.... and I stopped having dreams (which would normally be partly non-verbal). Note I have absolutely no visual imagination and my dreams were ghostly and have never been colour. I remained delusional so they gave me 6(?) lots of ECT. I used to program PHP for 30 hours a week. After hospital I couldn't even handle 8 hours a week.... I think my working memory for programming got a lot worse (I couldn't handle the programming complexity). I think ECT killed off a personality... also in hospital I started coming up with new ideas, etc. (I'm also starting to make more typos and sometimes my visual awareness gets really bad) Though before hospital I'd never had any visual imagination - not even a "ghost" image. But after hospital I would occasionally hallucinate - sometimes in colour...

Then there are "voices" which schizophrenic people hear... I'm not sure where their irrational speech would come from.... it would be interesting to research that - whether the voices could somehow make sense in some way?
 
From there I went on to be a successful neurosensory psychophysiology and human factors professional. A little late. Didn't finish postdoc at CalTech, two floors below Sperry's lab, until I was 38. Probably would have been neuropharmacological sensory psychophysiologist if I hadn't revealed I'd been in hospital in interview for position At Norwalk State Hospital just before finishing my postdoc. Hospitalized when I was in my 20s. You don't have to tell such as that yano.
 
fromderinside said:
From there I went on to be a successful neurosensory psychophysiology and human factors professional. A little late. Didn't finish postdoc at CalTech, two floors below Sperry's lab, until I was 38. Probably would have been neuropharmacological sensory psychophysiologist if I hadn't revealed I'd been in hospital in interview for position At Norwalk State Hospital just before finishing my postdoc. Hospitalized when I was in my 20s. You don't have to tell such as that yano.
Click to expand...
Do you think materialism/physicalism can explain qualia? (I thought that sounded related to your specialization)
 
Tigers! said:
I wish some people I have worked with had multiple personalities because the one they show at work is no good.
Click to expand...
From what I've read pretty much everyone has at least two sides.... though they can work together.... and one side can be more dominant than the other.... e.g. this morning I ended up getting up at 8am but it was a quite difficult fight with myself. I kept on being tempted to go back to bed.
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_depletion
Ego depletion refers to the idea that self-control or willpower draws upon a limited pool of mental resources that can be used up (with the word "ego" used in the psychoanalytic sense rather than the colloquial sense)
Click to expand...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-control
...Individuals with low self-control tend to be impulsive, insensitive towards others, risk takers, short-sighted, and nonverbal....
Click to expand...
The term literally involves "control" of part of the self....
 
fromderinside said:
FDI's definition of evil one: A person drawn to psychology out of feelings of inadequacy who gloms on to methods introduced by Pearson from USC between thirties through sixties to explain the world. 'r' U listening?
Click to expand...
Sorry I'm not sure what you're saying... are you talking about me?
 
No. That's not permitted. I'm just saying my views on multivariate analysis go beyond association to determination. Consequently I'm very suspicious of anything, any tool set, manipulating data short of determination goals. Associations are really nothing more than hearsay.
 
fromderinside said:
No. That's not permitted. I'm just saying my views on multivariate analysis go beyond association to determination. Consequently I'm very suspicious of anything, any tool set, manipulating data short of determination goals. Associations are really nothing more than hearsay.
Click to expand...
Well I at least thought stories about split-brain patients was interesting....
 
These concepts explain ancient theories about the "heart" and the "mind" (though both are the mind)
 
Twofer

excreationist said:
Well I at least thought stories about split-brain patients was interesting....
Click to expand...

excreationist said:
These concepts explain ancient theories about the "heart" and the "mind" (though both are the mind)
Click to expand...

Yes. They are interesting. So too is good fiction often is interesting.

No. I'm not poo pooing "Split brain" approaches to such as male/female or creative/logical or any other location parse. If I were 'I'd be lifting my nose to include what I see as the very important tegmentum studies of rise of consciousness pursued by Crick and others. Place has always been an interesting, if not always productive, direction of brain study.

To clarify, The above are much more qualitative areas of research rather than are they quantitative areas of study which is why we're even discussing them here in the association vs determination arena.

Actually I'm more interested in overlap between learning and affiliation and affect processing within sensory and autonomic pathways than I am in this side/that side or least necessary structures for existence of consciousness. Ah, but in such reductive study we can come across monkey claw detectors in house cats and Barlow face detectors there as well distractions.
 
Julian Jaynes discusses topics related to this thread topic in his famous 1976 book The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind. Some people think Jaynes' ideas have been debunked, but I think Jaynes' many insights are very valuable and largely correct. Anyone interested in split-brain should read that book!

Perhaps there's been much discussion of Jaynes' ideas here at TFT, but I didn't search.
 
Swammerdami said:
Julian Jaynes discusses topics related to this thread topic in his famous 1976 book The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind.....
Click to expand...
Thanks I had heard of that book before but didn't realise it was so ancient... I'm going to look into it...

BTW here's another story about myself... when I was in high school a classmate made me aware that I kept on having a monotone chuckle for no real reason... then the same thing happened in church... so basically I was unaware of the chuckle even after being made aware of it days earlier.

About the ECT and the personality I think it eliminated - in hospital I apparently said to my partner that she had to do certain favours or she didn't love me - I have no memory of that. Also many years earlier I lost memory of the first two days or so of my hospitalisation.... apparently I said to my sisters that I didn't recognise them but they looked familiar.

I think a similar thing happens with some people's drunken state - a different personality could take over and people can lose memory of it....

The last time I was hospitalised I was doing a lot of intermittent fasting. Apparently that can make the brain run on ketones rather than glucose. It can make people have more focus but it made me have the symptoms of anxiety - I thought I was having the symptoms of a heart attack and called an ambulance twice within 24 hours then I was hospitalised for a manic episode. Some drugs can affect people's consciousness. So I make sure I don't fast any more.

BTW I'm aware that this is quite disorganised but I wanted to share this....
 
I'd say that the default state of the brain (not booting off the responsible side when drunk, etc) is a hive mind. Normally they share the same memory.
 
Sure there are many possibilities in parallel but those possibilities are wildly divergent in probability from the git go. The fact that you executed only one or two of them is less about how many but how likely were any of those of which you were aware. Not so much choice as gravity of likelihood.

IMHO most choices are justified after the fact.
 
excreationist said:
By multiple personalities I mean having different "minds"... like Freud and id, ego and superego... or the different cognitive functions in MBTI.

I found some information here - I assume it is accurate:
though he calls them "conscious agents" and they aren't necessarily self-aware
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmieNQH7Q4w
1:42:00
There's a different personality in the left hemisphere than the right hemisphere one. In one case the left hemisphere believed in God the right hemisphere was an atheist. The left hemisphere wanted to be have a desk job the right hemisphere wanted to be a race car driver and they can even fight. The left hemisphere controls the right hand the right hemisphere controls the left hand and the they can fight. The left hand can be fighting what the right hand is doing. You know trying to cook the left hand might destroy an omelet that you're making. You try to put on some clothes - the left hand might be taking off the clothes the right hand is trying to put on
Click to expand...
1:57:18
they would they were able um to get these split brain patients to have to play 20 questions with each other with themselves you the right hemisphere has a word in mind the left hemisphere doesn't know what it is and then the left hemisphere which can talk can start asking questions is it uh animal is it vegetable is it mineral things like that and the right hemisphere which can't talk but can understand language can use say the left hand to thumbs up for yes thumbs down for no and so these a split brain patient has two separate spheres of consciousness so separate that they can play 20 questions and the left hemisphere doesn't know the answer right the left hemisphere does not know and sometimes will fail to guess in 20 questions what's in the mind of the...
Click to expand...
I think "Being John Malkovich" is revelant. It involves old people going into a mind for their afterlife. They would be able to sometimes affect that mind. Then one of the characters goes into the mind but can not interact with the person at all...

I wonder if those concepts in "Being John Malkovich" are based on any old or ancient ideas?

BTW sometimes I have a self-gratifying personality and my self-disciplined personality fights with it - like when I think that I "should" get out of bed. The struggle is quite intense even though it only lasts a couple seconds. If I had got into a habit then the association with the self-disciplined personality would strengthen.

Perhaps Christianity also is relevant... I think there is something about the sinful self and there could be a new self, etc.

BTW in 2019 I was admitted into a mental ward. I believed that both sides of me were verbal.... and I stopped having dreams (which would normally be partly non-verbal). Note I have absolutely no visual imagination and my dreams were ghostly and have never been colour. I remained delusional so they gave me 6(?) lots of ECT. I used to program PHP for 30 hours a week. After hospital I couldn't even handle 8 hours a week.... I think my working memory for programming got a lot worse (I couldn't handle the programming complexity). I think ECT killed off a personality... also in hospital I started coming up with new ideas, etc. (I'm also starting to make more typos and sometimes my visual awareness gets really bad) Though before hospital I'd never had any visual imagination - not even a "ghost" image. But after hospital I would occasionally hallucinate - sometimes in colour...

Then there are "voices" which schizophrenic people hear... I'm not sure where their irrational speech would come from.... it would be interesting to research that - whether the voices could somehow make sense in some way?
Click to expand...

Can you provide a link to the split brain experiments you mention?
 
Angry Floof said:
Can you provide a link to the split brain experiments you mention?
Click to expand...

Here is a good article on the "classic" split brain patients:

https://www.nature.com/news/the-split-brain-a-tale-of-two-halves-1.10213

Basically, cutting the corpus callosum, the main neuronal connection between the two cortical hempispheres, was used as a treatment of extreme epilepsy. However, cognitive experiments revealed a lot of very interesting results on these patients that suggest that these hemispheres can act independently of each other.

For example:

Two-minds.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom