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My Last Rant on the 2016 Presidential Election (until my next one)

The question of whether it's bothersome and what the deciding factor in the election was can be considered separately.

If the Dems didn't completely mismanage the election strategy they could have won regardless of the hacked emails. And let's not excuse the fact that a Gmail phishing message (which the Clinton IT guy thought was real) was the attack vector.
Did they mismanage the election? Lets remember something, almost no candidate without any incumbency did what Trump did. The "grab them by the pussy line" the "bleeding from wherever" would have (has) buried any other candidate (Allen, Akins, Angle, O'Donnell). I think Clinton ran the right campaign that would have won almost any other election, but there was a significant movement from the right-wing to push for a candidate like Trump. She trounced Trump in the debates, but it didn't matter. Trump said deplorable things, like inciting violence at a rally... it didn't matter. How do you beat a candidate that can't go too negative?

She made two mistakes in hindsight. First, she went for the landslide and polls were pointing there, but it turned out Republicans weren't telling the truth when they said they wouldn't vote for Trump. She should have stayed local and protected the Midwest. Secondly, she picked the wrong VP candidate. Oddly her only gamble the entire election, going for the landslide hurt her. Her VP choice was way too conservative, and she should have gone Latino. That would have likely won her Wisconsin, Michigan, Florida, and possibly PA and NC.

I'd agree with Athena that HRC didn't run a great campaign. But part of this was that she had to be so defensive regarding Comey and Russian hacks. Her team would wake up each day with a very detailed and planned strategy, only to be completely sidetracked due to Comey and hacks. She was always on the defensive. Couldn't get her message out.

Secondly, was it bad that Podesto and others said bad things about Sanders. You bet! And this depressed democratic turnout. However, isn't it interesting that none of Sanders top advisers had e-mails hacked that showed their suspicion of HRC?! Now it's being reported that Putin deliberately directed the leaks. There are allegations (no proof) that Putin may have been coordinating this with Trump campaign in order to depress democratic turnout. We know that Rudy was coordinating with some of Comey's FBI advisers (maybe even Comey himself).
 
It definitely isn't all on Hillary, but Hillary did little to help herself. She never rallied around any real issues (other than trying to piggy back on Sanders' popularity to appease his voters near the end). She came in and always maintained an air of entitlement. She was a sold out politician fighting somebody sucessfully presenting an image of a populist to his base. She never explained away her ties to wall street or spoke effectively against corruption. The stark contrast with Sanders didn't help her for sure, but nor did her self-entitled arrogance help herself.
 
It definitely isn't all on Hillary, but Hillary did little to help herself. She never rallied around any real issues (other than trying to piggy back on Sanders' popularity to appease his voters near the end). She came in and always maintained an air of entitlement. She was a sold out politician fighting somebody sucessfully presenting an image of a populist to his base. She never explained away her ties to wall street or spoke effectively against corruption. The stark contrast with Sanders didn't help her for sure, but nor did her self-entitled arrogance help herself.

I feel that you are completely fucking wrong on every point of this. It's just a regurgitation of lies that were built to discredit work she has done.

She _did_ rally around issues: health care, civil rights, many more all on her web site and in her speeches, all you have to do is look.
She did not have an air of entitlement, she had an air of hard work. Always has.
She is not a sold-out politician, she did a very good job as Senator and Secretary of State.
She absolutely did explain what her wall street "ties" actually were.
She spoke very effective against corruption.

You're just repeating smears that have not basis in fact. But this is not a surprise, you have not hidden your willingness to believe lies about her throughout this campaign, nor have you hidden your willingness to repeat those lies even when you have been presented with evidence that refutes them. So, no, not a surprise at all. More of same.
 
It definitely isn't all on Hillary, but Hillary did little to help herself. She never rallied around any real issues (other than trying to piggy back on Sanders' popularity to appease his voters near the end). She came in and always maintained an air of entitlement.
I'm tired of reading and hearing people say that. That never happened.
She was a sold out politician fighting somebody sucessfully presenting an image of a populist to his base.
You misspelled racist.
She never explained away her ties to wall street or spoke effectively against corruption. The stark contrast with Sanders didn't help her for sure, but nor did her self-entitled arrogance help herself.
The "self-entitled arrogance" is a made up myth.

Incredible that Trump made fun of women and the disabled and ran the most arrogant campaign since maybe Wallace, and Clinton is labeled by some as the arrogant campaign. Trump never explained how he could actually remove himself from his businesses, yet Clinton did talk about Wall Street connections enough?!
 
I'm tired of reading and hearing people say that. That never happened.
She was a sold out politician fighting somebody sucessfully presenting an image of a populist to his base.
You misspelled racist.
She never explained away her ties to wall street or spoke effectively against corruption. The stark contrast with Sanders didn't help her for sure, but nor did her self-entitled arrogance help herself.
The "self-entitled arrogance" is a made up myth.

Incredible that Trump made fun of women and the disabled and ran the most arrogant campaign since maybe Wallace, and Clinton is labeled by some as the arrogant campaign. Trump never explained how he could actually remove himself from his businesses, yet Clinton did talk about Wall Street connections enough?!

Yeah, that completely amazes me - and reveals SO MUCH about the writer. Anyone who can talk about Clinton and arrogance or corruption when Trump is in the room is just eye-poppingly deluded or a crass liar. No other options.
 
I'm tired of reading and hearing people say that. That never happened.
You misspelled racist.
She never explained away her ties to wall street or spoke effectively against corruption. The stark contrast with Sanders didn't help her for sure, but nor did her self-entitled arrogance help herself.
The "self-entitled arrogance" is a made up myth.

Incredible that Trump made fun of women and the disabled and ran the most arrogant campaign since maybe Wallace, and Clinton is labeled by some as the arrogant campaign. Trump never explained how he could actually remove himself from his businesses, yet Clinton did talk about Wall Street connections enough?!

Yeah, that completely amazes me - and reveals SO MUCH about the writer. Anyone who can talk about Clinton and arrogance or corruption when Trump is in the room is just eye-poppingly deluded or a crass liar. No other options.

The difference being that Trump and republicans in general have built in advantages (Comey, Geography, Russians, 3rd parties) that allows them to be hurt less than democrats.
 
I feel that you are completely fucking wrong on every point of this. It's just a regurgitation of lies that were built to discredit work she has done.

Of course that's what you think. And that's why the Democrats will likely lose again in 4 years. I can't have my own thoughts. I must be an idiot fooled by Trump and a deplorable racist/sexist/homophobe/whatever other accusation you care to make, yes? Trump must have been a mastermind salesman that fooled all the idiots that are overflowing your country, and no way could any Democrat (except for Bernie, Warren, Obama himself, and hell maybe even Lincoln "oops, can I have a do-over" Chafe) have beat him, right?

It can't have anything to do with Hillary's robotic nature, ties to wall street, or arrogant self-entitlement. It can't have anything to do with the media leaping on sound bites and spinning everything Trump said to the point of folks believing he must be right if they feel the need to do that despite his obvious actual shortcomings. It can't have anything to do with the behaviour of the Democratic party, stacking the deck yet again and turning their backs on progressive liberal values for corporate selling out....

Keep thinking that way and the Democrats may never recover. Maybe the Green party or some offshoot of the Libertarians will take their place on the left eventually after a long period of Republican defacto rule.

She _did_ rally around issues: health care, civil rights, many more all on her web site and in her speeches, all you have to do is look.

Hardly. Ask the average American voter what she was for and watch them struggle for an answer. It was obvious what Sander's was for. Hillary was just being pushed as not-Trump.

She did not have an air of entitlement

This is the most delusional thing I have seen you write ever. She was a legacy candidate (wasn't 2 Bushes enough? You needed 2 Clintons?) getting her start by being a President's wife and running and failing not once, but twice for the office, both times pushing how she was entitled. She actually offered Obama the VP slot while trailing him in the polls. She was presented as a candidate of destiny by both the party and the media over a year before the election and before the first Democratic primary debate took place. She had not one, but two DNC heads connected to her campaigns. And she was snuggled up to wealthy and corporate donors, even moreso than Trump. But to be fair, she DID wag her finger at wall street and tell them to "cut it out", while taking in their money. When Sanders called for getting money out of politics, Clinton would say things like "yes, we should get unaccountable money out" to the audible groans of progressive liberals everywhere.

She is not a sold-out politician, she did a very good job as Senator and Secretary of State.

Hahaha Ya... right.

She spoke very effective against corruption.

She to a large extent embodies corruption as it exists on the Democrat side. But sure, she engaged in some doublespeak to try to soothe the plebs, and she lacked the oratory skill of people like Obama and her husband who could actually make that work. Oh but Trump is even more corrupt you say. So? Lesser of two evils rhetoric isn't so great at winning votes. Democrats needed somebody they could enthusiastically support. That didn't happen with Hillary, and it was visible from nearly a year before the election. Hillary was at first the "yeah ok I guess" candidate, then the "Bernie is too extreme, so I guess she'll do" candidate, and then the "Well, she's not Trump" candidate.

You're just repeating smears that have not basis in fact.

Keep burying your head in the sand, and you put Trump in for a second term.
 
Keep burying your head in the sand, and you put Trump in for a second term.

You may have your opinion. Looking at actual facts it's clear to me that you opinion is refuted by them.
 
She came in and always maintained an air of entitlement.
And all of this is so fact-free. So merely an opinion based on personal bias.

~shrug~ it's not convincing at all.

She was a legacy candidate


What does this mean. What list was she on. What makes you say it was legacy and not her own desire?

(wasn't 2 Bushes enough? You needed 2 Clintons?)
In 2008, I actually felt that same way. After 8 years of doing other things, it no longer had the appearance or feel of just a continuation of others' efforts, but her own.

getting her start by being a President's wife and running and failing not once, but twice for the office, both times pushing how she was entitled.

Please present evidence for the claim that "she pushed" her "entitlement."
It's just made up shit.
But go ahead and tell me what made you believe it.

She actually offered Obama the VP slot while trailing him in the polls. She was presented as a candidate of destiny by both the party and the media over a year before the election and before the first Democratic primary debate took place.


Please show how the party did this. I don't care about the media, they aren't hers to control.

She had not one, but two DNC heads connected to her campaigns.
That happens when you have experience and people like you. It does not denote "entitlement."
When I ran for office I had the connections of previous officeholders. I was not "entitled."


And she was snuggled up to wealthy and corporate donors, even moreso than Trump.

Bwaaa haaa haaa!!!!!!


But to be fair, she DID wag her finger at wall street and tell them to "cut it out", while taking in their money. When Sanders called for getting money out of politics, Clinton would say things like "yes, we should get unaccountable money out" to the audible groans of progressive liberals everywhere.

That doesn't even make sense.
 
Well I'm just giving an outside objective view. It really isn't my problem so much as it is yours, so have it your way and enjoy reaping what you've sowed. I'll happily live up here in Canada where we have actual universal single payer health care, subsidized tuition, nation wide gay marriage for over a decade, etc.
 
Well I'm just giving an outside objective view. It really isn't my problem so much as it is yours, so have it your way and enjoy reaping what you've sowed. I'll happily live up here in Canada where we have actual universal single payer health care, subsidized tuition, nation wide gay marriage for over a decade, etc.

It is interesting that many of the people on this forum who support Trump reside in other countries!
 
So we aren't blaming liberals who didn't bother to vote? Clinton lost Wisconsin... a state where Trump underperformed Mitt Romney.

But a huge thumbs up to Trump voters. Man, didn't matter if he was grabbing women by the pussy if you were an evangelical... they were going to vote for Trump regardless.

Odd... stick to your principles and lose.

I agree with this one. I doubt republicans loved trump more than democrats loved hillary, but the republicans did their job on election day regardless. (and in the midterms).

aa
 
I'll happily live up here in Canada ...

I knew it. That whole "South Pole" thing was vacuous fluff, trumped up to misdirect and obfuscate your True Continent! Another case of conservative fake news... :p
 
Well I'm just giving an outside objective view. It really isn't my problem so much as it is yours, so have it your way and enjoy reaping what you've sowed. I'll happily live up here in Canada where we have actual universal single payer health care, subsidized tuition, nation wide gay marriage for over a decade, etc.

I know that you live in Canada, you have mentioned it before.
And objectively, your view of the news is no less warped, so your view is not objective. Unaffected, yes; but not objective.
A view of the facts of Clinton's history does not support your claims. A view of FOX "news," ironically, does.
 
Well I'm just giving an outside objective view. It really isn't my problem so much as it is yours, so have it your way and enjoy reaping what you've sowed. I'll happily live up here in Canada where we have actual universal single payer health care, subsidized tuition, nation wide gay marriage for over a decade, etc.

I know that you live in Canada, you have mentioned it before.
And objectively, your view of the news is no less warped, so your view is not objective. Unaffected, yes; but not objective.
A view of the facts of Clinton's history does not support your claims. A view of FOX "news," ironically, does.

Thank you for putting Fox "news" in parentheses! Because they really don't report the news.
 
I know that you live in Canada, you have mentioned it before.
And objectively, your view of the news is no less warped, so your view is not objective. Unaffected, yes; but not objective.
A view of the facts of Clinton's history does not support your claims. A view of FOX "news," ironically, does.

Thank you for putting Fox "news" in parentheses! Because they really don't report the news.

Indeed, they even testified to that effect in a court case, "we lie! We're not really news, we're entertainment."
 
So are you okay with the dems having a higher margin to win due to a foreign government (among other issues)? You okay with the republicans only needing 47% of the vote because of outside factors.

Bravo - this is a clear summation of my views in light of the multiple threads, including current one, I've posted in.

The question of whether it's bothersome and what the deciding factor in the election was can be considered separately.

If the Dems didn't completely mismanage the election strategy they could have won regardless of the hacked emails. And let's not excuse the fact that a Gmail phishing message (which the Clinton IT guy thought was real) was the attack vector.
Did they mismanage the election? Lets remember something, almost no candidate without any incumbency did what Trump did. The "grab them by the pussy line" the "bleeding from wherever" would have (has) buried any other candidate (Allen, Akins, Angle, O'Donnell). I think Clinton ran the right campaign that would have won almost any other election, but there was a significant movement from the right-wing to push for a candidate like Trump. She trounced Trump in the debates, but it didn't matter. Trump said deplorable things, like inciting violence at a rally... it didn't matter. How do you beat a candidate that can't go too negative?

She made two mistakes in hindsight. First, she went for the landslide and polls were pointing there, but it turned out Republicans weren't telling the truth when they said they wouldn't vote for Trump. She should have stayed local and protected the Midwest. Secondly, she picked the wrong VP candidate. Oddly her only gamble the entire election, going for the landslide hurt her. Her VP choice was way too conservative, and she should have gone Latino. That would have likely won her Wisconsin, Michigan, Florida, and possibly PA and NC.

People who voted either for Trump, or against Hillary didn't care so concentrating on the stuff he said seems like a failed strategy.

Listening to people's concerns and addressing those concerns seems to be what could beat a candidate who can't go too negative. The Deplorables were locked votes for Trump, what won him the election was people who voted based on the conditions they're living in, and the Clinton messaging to these people was as weak as the ground-game in the Midwest.

To wit:

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkSGcBtvhnw[/YOUTUBE]
 
Bravo - this is a clear summation of my views in light of the multiple threads, including current one, I've posted in.

The question of whether it's bothersome and what the deciding factor in the election was can be considered separately.

If the Dems didn't completely mismanage the election strategy they could have won regardless of the hacked emails. And let's not excuse the fact that a Gmail phishing message (which the Clinton IT guy thought was real) was the attack vector.
Did they mismanage the election? Lets remember something, almost no candidate without any incumbency did what Trump did. The "grab them by the pussy line" the "bleeding from wherever" would have (has) buried any other candidate (Allen, Akins, Angle, O'Donnell). I think Clinton ran the right campaign that would have won almost any other election, but there was a significant movement from the right-wing to push for a candidate like Trump. She trounced Trump in the debates, but it didn't matter. Trump said deplorable things, like inciting violence at a rally... it didn't matter. How do you beat a candidate that can't go too negative?

She made two mistakes in hindsight. First, she went for the landslide and polls were pointing there, but it turned out Republicans weren't telling the truth when they said they wouldn't vote for Trump. She should have stayed local and protected the Midwest. Secondly, she picked the wrong VP candidate. Oddly her only gamble the entire election, going for the landslide hurt her. Her VP choice was way too conservative, and she should have gone Latino. That would have likely won her Wisconsin, Michigan, Florida, and possibly PA and NC.

People who voted either for Trump, or against Hillary didn't care so concentrating on the stuff he said seems like a failed strategy.

Listening to people's concerns and addressing those concerns seems to be what could beat a candidate who can't go too negative. The Deplorables were locked votes for Trump, what won him the election was people who voted based on the conditions they're living in, and the Clinton messaging to these people was as weak as the ground-game in the Midwest.

To wit:

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkSGcBtvhnw[/YOUTUBE]

Dude?? I hope you realize that the quote above was from me in response to Athena's post.
 
Listening to people's concerns and addressing those concerns seems to be what could beat a candidate who can't go too negative. The Deplorables were locked votes for Trump, what won him the election was people who voted based on the conditions they're living in, and the Clinton messaging to these people was as weak as the ground-game in the Midwest.

Indeed. People here speak as if pointing at Trump as bad somehow makes Clinton acceptable and able to get liberals out to vote for her. This is a country that is extremely polarized and partisan and has a rather low voter turn out. You are not really competing for the same votes on the left and on the right. Trump got his voters out, and not in record numbers. Hillary didn't get enough of her side out. Hillary didn't because of what you say here and because of the numerous things I have stated above. She was a flawed self-entitled corporate candidate and had Sanders up there in stark contrast which only further highlighted her flaws, and she did little to nothing to deal with them. Few actually wanted to vote for her. Most who did were doing so because of her riveting message of "I'm not Trump".
 
I know that you live in Canada, you have mentioned it before.
And objectively, your view of the news is no less warped, so your view is not objective. Unaffected, yes; but not objective.
A view of the facts of Clinton's history does not support your claims. A view of FOX "news," ironically, does.

A view of her campaign most certainly does support what I have said above. She gave expensive speeches to wall street not long prior to the campaign (she's an idiot apparently), received tons of campaign funds from wall street and other big money interests during the campaign, and then purported to tell them to "cut it out" while wagging her finger and claiming that her taking in these funds wouldn't bias her in their favour. Bernie Sanders made this point numerous times, and he was right. You have to squint really really hard not to see it.

Sorry, but she is as corrupt as Democrats come. Maybe, maybe way back when she was first lady and shortly afterwards, when she pushed for universal health care once upon a time, she wasn't, but that was a very long time ago.

A view of not just Fox "News" (if it can be called that), but every "news" channel there was (CNN, NBC, CBS, and most online media) shows the media pushing her as pre-annointed. The debate scheduling in the primary, the attitude of Hillary and of the party itself, the leaked emails (which she then wouldn't address except to accuse Russia of hacking (and not fabricating)) etc all show this to stem from the core of her campaign. Wall street owned her and also owned these media outlets, not just Fox News.

Your continued defence of her even today after she lost in a landslide only shows that you have learned nothing and that if you are representative of Democrats today, you will continue to lose elections.

What exactly would it take for the Democrat party core to cut ties with big money corruption? And what would it take for Democrat party to return to actual liberal values, which the majority of your country actually seems to support in poll after poll?
 
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