Neo-Nazi speech shows they wanted violence

[J842P]

Yes, there were very fine people on both sides, right?

It's not OK to label everyone you don't like on the right-wing as being a "fascist" and see that as a justification to attack them. These left wing groups will not stop at attacking genuine neo-Nazis. It will be Trump supporters are the "fascists". Or they will just attack the police.

I'm guessing there was a spectrum of belief at the protest in question.

There were probably a few scattered "Southern Heritage" type people who always exist in VA, who you couldn't failry characterize as a Nazi. They are just brainwashed about history.

But the vast majority of the people there on the right were avowed Nazis.

Look, if you are going to walk around dressed like Neo-Nazis, chanting "Blood and Soil" and "the Jews will not replace us", you are a Nazi.

 

[dismal]

Yes, there were very fine people on both sides, right?

It's not OK to label everyone you don't like on the right-wing as being a "fascist" and see that as a justification to attack them. These left wing groups will not stop at attacking genuine neo-Nazis. It will be Trump supporters are the "fascists". Or they will just attack the police.

I'm guessing there was a spectrum of belief at the protest in question.

There were probably a few scattered "Southern Heritage" type people who always exist in VA, who you couldn't failry characterize as a Nazi. They are just brainwashed about history.

But the vast majority of the people there on the right were avowed Nazis.

Look, if you are going to walk around dressed like Neo-Nazis, chanting "Blood and Soil" and "the Jews will not replace us", you are a Nazi.

No, they are not Nazis. You can say they are Nazi wannabees, maybe.

The real Nazis did evil things. The did not get together and hold rallies to talk about evil things.

 

[J842P]

There were probably a few scattered "Southern Heritage" type people who always exist in VA, who you couldn't failry characterize as a Nazi. They are just brainwashed about history.

But the vast majority of the people there on the right were avowed Nazis.

Look, if you are going to walk around dressed like Neo-Nazis, chanting "Blood and Soil" and "the Jews will not replace us", you are a Nazi.

No, they are not Nazis. You can say they are Nazi wannabees, maybe.

The real Nazis did evil things. The did not get together and hold rallies to talk about evil things.

Most Nazi's didn't do anything particularly evil. They mostly talked about Nazi ideology, and yet, they were still Nazis.

It is quite simple: these people espouse Nazi ideology, therefore they are Nazis.

I'll concede, if it makes you feel better, that they aren't members of the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei in the Deutsches Reich during the 1940s.

 

[dismal]

There were probably a few scattered "Southern Heritage" type people who always exist in VA, who you couldn't failry characterize as a Nazi. They are just brainwashed about history.

But the vast majority of the people there on the right were avowed Nazis.

Look, if you are going to walk around dressed like Neo-Nazis, chanting "Blood and Soil" and "the Jews will not replace us", you are a Nazi.

No, they are not Nazis. You can say they are Nazi wannabees, maybe.

The real Nazis did evil things. The did not get together and hold rallies to talk about evil things.

Most Nazi's didn't do anything particularly evil.]

Irrelevant. The reason we still talk about the evilness of Nazis today is because of the things Nazis did.

If all Nazis had ever done was get a few dozen people together and say evil stuff at rallies we wouldn't give a shit about them.

 

[J842P]

Most Nazi's didn't do anything particularly evil.]

Irrelevant. The reason we still talk about the evilness of Nazis today is because of the things Nazis did.

If all Nazis had ever done was get a few dozen people together and say evil stuff at rallies we wouldn't give a shit about them.

How is this relevant to whether or not they are Nazis? It may be relevant to why Nazis are remembered today, but that doesn't seem relevant as to whether or not they are Nazis.

Suppose, they Nazis had only ever killed a couple of people, and mostly talked about the things they ended up perpetrating. They would still be Nazis. They just wouldn't be as widely remembered.

 

[laughing dog]

Most Nazi's didn't do anything particularly evil.]

Irrelevant. The reason we still talk about the evilness of Nazis today is because of the things Nazis did.

We talk about the evil that Nazis did. But the evilness of Nazis today is based on what the Nazis of today want to do.

 

[dismal]

Most Nazi's didn't do anything particularly evil.]

Irrelevant. The reason we still talk about the evilness of Nazis today is because of the things Nazis did.

If all Nazis had ever done was get a few dozen people together and say evil stuff at rallies we wouldn't give a shit about them.

How is this relevant to whether or not they are Nazis? It may be relevant to why Nazis are remembered today, but that doesn't seem relevant as to whether or not they are Nazis.

Suppose, they Nazis had only ever killed a couple of people, and mostly talked about the things they ended up perpetrating. They would still be Nazis. They just wouldn't be as widely remembered.

Huh? Not sure if you are disagreeing with me or agreeing.

Anyway, these guys in Charlottesville clearly aren't actual Nazis. That's why they are called "neo-Nazis" or somesuch.

 

[ronburgundy]

Most Nazi's didn't do anything particularly evil.]

Irrelevant. The reason we still talk about the evilness of Nazis today is because of the things Nazis did.

If all Nazis had ever done was get a few dozen people together and say evil stuff at rallies we wouldn't give a shit about them.

Nazis were still Nazis before they ever did those evil things and the the rallies that they held were attempts to build the social foundation for those evil things, exactly like what the white supremacists in the US are doing now. White supremacy is an inherently pro-violent ideology, because their political goals center on treating other people like sub-humans. Since those victims will not allow that without a fight, there is no way to accomplish it without violence.
Currently, they have control of the white house and Congress, so they are using and hope to increase use of the governmental power to enact that injustice and violence. That is the only reason they are not engaging in more street level violence that they already do (which is substantial, and the Florida shooting is among them).

The average white supremacist is a far far greater threat to both individual US citizens and to our constitutional democracy than the average Muslim.

 

[dismal]

Most Nazi's didn't do anything particularly evil.]

Irrelevant. The reason we still talk about the evilness of Nazis today is because of the things Nazis did.

If all Nazis had ever done was get a few dozen people together and say evil stuff at rallies we wouldn't give a shit about them.

Nazis were still Nazis before they ever did those evil things and the the rallies that they held were attempts to build the social foundation for those evil things, exactly like what the white supremacists in the US are doing now. White supremacy is an inherently pro-violent ideology, because their political goals center on treating other people like sub-humans. Since those victims will not allow that without a fight, there is no way to accomplish it without violence.
Currently, they have control of the white house and Congress, so they are using and hope to increase use of the governmental power to enact that injustice and violence. That is the only reason they are engaging in more street level violence that they already do (which is substantial, and the Florida shooting is among them).

The average white supremacist is a far far greater threat to both individual US citizens and to our constitutional democracy than the average Muslim.

Wow. Are you taking your medication?

 

[ronburgundy]

I would view as peculiar and inconvenient but not assault.

So if people decide to prevent you from leaving your house by blocking you in, that's not illegal violence. OK...

No.
If they completely prevent your movement in any and all directions, then it is a crime of false imprisonment, but still not violence.

However, it is not any kind of crime against you, if they merely block one direction of your street, and you are free to go the other direction (which was the case with the Charlotte incident). The only infraction the counter-protesters committed was jay-waking. So, the violence initiated entirely by the neo-Nazis was equal to shooting someone because they crossing the street outside a crosswalk.

 

[ronburgundy]

Nazis were still Nazis before they ever did those evil things and the the rallies that they held were attempts to build the social foundation for those evil things, exactly like what the white supremacists in the US are doing now. White supremacy is an inherently pro-violent ideology, because their political goals center on treating other people like sub-humans. Since those victims will not allow that without a fight, there is no way to accomplish it without violence.
Currently, they have control of the white house and Congress, so they are using and hope to increase use of the governmental power to enact that injustice and violence. That is the only reason they are engaging in more street level violence that they already do (which is substantial, and the Florida shooting is among them).

The average white supremacist is a far far greater threat to both individual US citizens and to our constitutional democracy than the average Muslim.

Wow. Are you taking your medication?

If "medication" in your perverse worldview means factual knowledge and accurate understanding of history and human psychology, then yes.

 

[dismal]

Nazis were still Nazis before they ever did those evil things and the the rallies that they held were attempts to build the social foundation for those evil things, exactly like what the white supremacists in the US are doing now. White supremacy is an inherently pro-violent ideology, because their political goals center on treating other people like sub-humans. Since those victims will not allow that without a fight, there is no way to accomplish it without violence.
Currently, they have control of the white house and Congress, so they are using and hope to increase use of the governmental power to enact that injustice and violence. That is the only reason they are engaging in more street level violence that they already do (which is substantial, and the Florida shooting is among them).

The average white supremacist is a far far greater threat to both individual US citizens and to our constitutional democracy than the average Muslim.

Wow. Are you taking your medication?

If "medication" in your perverse worldview means factual knowledge and accurate understanding of history and human psychology, then yes.

No, I mean "medication" as in you're babbling like a street corner lunatic.

 

[J842P]

How is this relevant to whether or not they are Nazis? It may be relevant to why Nazis are remembered today, but that doesn't seem relevant as to whether or not they are Nazis.

Suppose, they Nazis had only ever killed a couple of people, and mostly talked about the things they ended up perpetrating. They would still be Nazis. They just wouldn't be as widely remembered.

Huh? Not sure if you are disagreeing with me or agreeing.

Anyway, these guys in Charlottesville clearly aren't actual Nazis. That's why they are called "neo-Nazis" or somesuch.

I'm disagreeing with you. Neo-Nazis are Nazis. It is a Nazi is a perfectly reasonable appellative for "a person who believes and espouses Nazi-ideology".

 

[Elixir]

I'm disagreeing with you. Neo-Nazis are Nazis. It is a Nazi is a perfectly reasonable appellative for "a person who believes and espouses Nazi-ideology".

Aw shucks... a rose by any other name, y'know? If it is important to someone that 21st century Nazis carry a "neo" prefix, why not entertain them?

 

[laughing dog]

No, I mean "medication" as in you're babbling like a street corner lunatic.

That one broke every irony meter in every space-time continuum.

 

[LordKiran]

No, I mean "medication" as in you're babbling like a street corner lunatic.

That one broke every irony meter in every space-time continuum.

Not to mention his statement is quite anachronistic. "Babbling like a supermarket tabloid" sounds far more contemporary.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Wow. Are you taking your medication?

So now you are hallucinating other people into your psychoses.

 

[dismal]

How is this relevant to whether or not they are Nazis? It may be relevant to why Nazis are remembered today, but that doesn't seem relevant as to whether or not they are Nazis.

Suppose, they Nazis had only ever killed a couple of people, and mostly talked about the things they ended up perpetrating. They would still be Nazis. They just wouldn't be as widely remembered.

Huh? Not sure if you are disagreeing with me or agreeing.

Anyway, these guys in Charlottesville clearly aren't actual Nazis. That's why they are called "neo-Nazis" or somesuch.

I'm disagreeing with you. Neo-Nazis are Nazis. It is a Nazi is a perfectly reasonable appellative for "a person who believes and espouses Nazi-ideology".

Well, then let's get the war crimes tribunals in Nuremburg going. They need to answer for rounding up the Jews and invading France.

 

[LordKiran]

I'm disagreeing with you. Neo-Nazis are Nazis. It is a Nazi is a perfectly reasonable appellative for "a person who believes and espouses Nazi-ideology".

Well, then let's get thee war crimes tribunals in Nuremburg going. They need to answer for rounding up the Jews and invading France.

What does that have to do with believing and espousing nazi-ideology? You can be a nazi and not invade france. Hell you can even be a nazi and not explicitly want to murder the Jews but would be perfectly happy if they just 'magically' weren't around any more!

 

[PyramidHead]

Wow. Are you taking your medication?

So now you are hallucinating other people into your psychoses.

To be fair, I think the part of ronburgundy's post that dismal reacted to in that way was the suggestion that Nazis control the White House and Congress. That's a bit of a stretch (though not lunacy). Trump doesn't care about anything other than money and image enough to bother with the ideals of racial purity, he just wants people who can help him win and look good doing it. The Congress is narrowly controlled by Republican politicians, not Nazis. There may be a few in the House, but most of them are just opportunists who will take any votes they can get. It's like the Christian conservative bloc, who are probably mostly agnostics and atheists but got where they are by pandering to believers.