New Carbon Dioxide Battery Solutions

[ZiprHead]

[YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/7t98dQ9BhEk[/YOUTUBE]

Carbon Dioxide battery technology represents a huge opportunity not only to vastly improve energy storage and output capacity, but also to capture CO2 straight out of our atmosphere and lock it away. Research is going on all around the world but in the last few weeks a research team from UIC in Illinois has published a paper proving that a Lithium Carbon Dioxide battery can now be recharged successfully and hold far more energy than a traditional battery, and another team working at MIT in Massachusetts has shown us a revolutionary system that significantly improves the efficiency of capturing pure CO2 from ambient air streams. This week we take a look at both of them.

Research links on the Youtube page.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I’ll care more when this is actually outside of a lab. Claims like these are made all the time.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I’ll care more when this is actually outside of a lab. Claims like these are made all the time.

Yup. Plenty of things work on the lab bench but can't be scaled up reasonably.

 

[James Brown]

Few things are mass produced that weren't first demonstrated on a lab bench.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Few things are mass produced that weren't first demonstrated on a lab bench.

When I used to read a blog on hybrid cars, there were often articles on the latest in battery technologies... in the lab. At first it is exciting, and then you realize nothing comes from these things. Huge unbelievable advancements that'd change the world forever... more about advertising to get more private money for funding the research.

Once they actually have something outside, I'll be more interested.

 

[James Brown]

Few things are mass produced that weren't first demonstrated on a lab bench.

When I used to read a blog on hybrid cars, there were often articles on the latest in battery technologies... in the lab. At first it is exciting, and then you realize nothing comes from these things. Huge unbelievable advancements that'd change the world forever... more about advertising to get more private money for funding the research.

Once they actually have something outside, I'll be more interested.

Aren't we using batteries in hybrid cars? Where did those batteries come from?

I'm not qualified to defend the Carbon Dioxide battery. I'm just cautioning waving it away on the grounds that most experimental technologies don't make it off the lab bench.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Cleary someone is in the pocket of Big Carbon batteries.

Yeah, research is important and battery tech continues to improve. Cell phones are proof of that. It is I am pretty much weary of an article claiming big things. I’ve read quite a few in the past. This would be an awesome development, but I’ll wait for something more physically tangible to come out first.

 

[bigfield]

Here's the paper that was linked in one of the Youtube video's links.

A Long-Cycle-Life Lithium–CO 2 Battery with Carbon Neutrality
http://sci-hub.tw/https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/adma.201902518

Carbon Dioxide battery technology represents a huge opportunity not only to vastly improve energy storage and output capacity, but also to capture CO2 straight out of our atmosphere and lock it away.

The battery manufacturing process would capture some carbon, but I think it's a bit of a stretch to think that would make a meaningful dent in atmospheric CO₂ levels.

The batteries themselves wouldn't be consuming CO₂ out of the air as they were used; they would be self-contained, like a lead-acid battery, reusing the same carbon atoms to make and unmake CO₂ with each charge and discharge cycle.

IMO it's more interesting because it might be more efficient than the Lithium-ion batteries currently used in electric cars.

From the paper:

Lithium-ion batteries are widely used as electrochemical energy storage systems for consumer electronics; [1] however, technologies with higher specific energy are needed for electrified transportation applications. [2] Therefore, beyond Li-ion battery chemistries such as rechargeable Li–O 2 batteries have recently garnered much attention due to their higher theoretical energy density. [3,4] Li–O 2 batteries generally have limited cyclability, though several studies have reported new concepts that have achieved long cycle life. [5,6] Although far less studied, the Li–CO 2 battery is another beyond Li-ion technology with a theoretical energy density of 1876 Wh kg −1 , [7,8] far exceeding that of Li-ion batteries (≈265 Wh kg −1 ).

 

[bigfield]

I’ll care more when this is actually outside of a lab. Claims like these are made all the time.

It doesn't use any graphene, so it's got one foot out of the lab already.

 

[lpetrich]

Looks rather interesting, but I'll believe it when I see it about commercial applications. Being able to use CO2 seems like it will be good for atmospheric carbon capture. Something good for both capturing excess atmospheric CO2 and for supplying feedstock CO2 for Fischer-Tropsch synthesis reactions. So we can get both syntuels and plastics.

 

[barbos]

Here's the paper that was linked in one of the Youtube video's links.

A Long-Cycle-Life Lithium–CO 2 Battery with Carbon Neutrality
http://sci-hub.tw/https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/adma.201902518



The battery manufacturing process would capture some carbon, but I think it's a bit of a stretch to think that would make a meaningful dent in atmospheric CO₂ levels.

The batteries themselves wouldn't be consuming CO₂ out of the air as they were used; they would be self-contained, like a lead-acid battery, reusing the same carbon atoms to make and unmake CO₂ with each charge and discharge cycle.

No, they claim MIT battery can actually be used for extracting CO2 from the atmosphere. It sucks CO2 from the air during charging and then relese concentrated CO2 during discharge.

IMO it's more interesting because it might be more efficient than the Lithium-ion batteries currently used in electric cars.

From the paper:

Lithium-ion batteries are widely used as electrochemical energy storage systems for consumer electronics; [1] however, technologies with higher specific energy are needed for electrified transportation applications. [2] Therefore, beyond Li-ion battery chemistries such as rechargeable Li–O 2 batteries have recently garnered much attention due to their higher theoretical energy density. [3,4] Li–O 2 batteries generally have limited cyclability, though several studies have reported new concepts that have achieved long cycle life. [5,6] Although far less studied, the Li–CO 2 battery is another beyond Li-ion technology with a theoretical energy density of 1876 Wh kg −1 , [7,8] far exceeding that of Li-ion batteries (≈265 Wh kg −1 ).

265 Wh/kg is a practical energy density of Li-ion, theoretical is in the same range 1000 Wh/kg If I remember correctly.

 

[bigfield]

No, they claim MIT battery can actually be used for extracting CO2 from the atmosphere. It sucks CO2 from the air during charging and then relese concentrated CO2 during discharge.

I think you've got charge and discharge mixed up--the battery consumes CO₂ during discharge.

But yes, I was wrong. While a car battery would be self-contained, the designers envisage a large-scale installation where the gas supply to a battery can be switched from air to concentrated CO₂ for discharging and charging respectively.

 

[barbos]

No, they claim MIT battery can actually be used for extracting CO2 from the atmosphere. It sucks CO2 from the air during charging and then relese concentrated CO2 during discharge.

I think you've got charge and discharge mixed up--the battery consumes CO₂ during discharge.

Well, I checked again and the guy in the video says what I said - consumes CO2 during charge and release during discharge, he may be wrong though.

 

[bigfield]

No, they claim MIT battery can actually be used for extracting CO2 from the atmosphere. It sucks CO2 from the air during charging and then relese concentrated CO2 during discharge.

I think you've got charge and discharge mixed up--the battery consumes CO₂ during discharge.

Well, I checked again and the guy in the video says what I said - consumes CO2 during charge and release during discharge, he may be wrong though.

I didn't watch the video--I prefer text sources.

Here's the schematic from the paper:

 

[barbos]

Well, I checked again and the guy in the video says what I said - consumes CO2 during charge and release during discharge, he may be wrong though.

I didn't watch the video--I prefer text sources.

Here's the schematic from the paper:

View attachment 24872

This diagram is useless, unless you already know what's going on. Either way, it does not matter. What matters is that they claim that battery operation has a sideffect of sucking CO2 out of air.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Well, I checked again and the guy in the video says what I said - consumes CO2 during charge and release during discharge, he may be wrong though.

I didn't watch the video--I prefer text sources.

Here's the schematic from the paper:

View attachment 24872

This diagram is useless, unless you already know what's going on. Either way, it does not matter. What matters is that they claim that battery operation has a sideffect of sucking CO2 out of air.

Combine this with some non-carbon source of power and this might be useful to lower atmospheric CO2.

I'm thinking of those oxygen concentrators that people with breathing difficulties sometimes use. Despite their name they don't actually do anything with oxygen. Rather, they have a material that reacts with nitrogen. IIRC at low pressure the material absorbs nitrogen, at higher pressure it releases it. Feed room air in, a bunch of nitrogen is removed, the patient gets high-oxygen air out. Close off the chamber, pressurize, then vent the extracted nitrogen not into the line going to the patient. Repeat.

Use this battery to pull CO2 into the battery, during the other half of the cycle is goes to containment, pump it into volcanic rock and you get limestone.