Nightmares of Socialism XXVII: Minneapolis Fair-Scheduling Rules

[Nice Squirrel]

Thanks for dismaling up the thread guys.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Yeah, a week would be sufficient.

But I'm not surprised at the overreaction given at how shittily employers have been exploiting scheduling.

Yeah. All too often real issues cause overreactions.

I favor requiring businesses to schedule reasonably in advance so workers can make child care arrangements etc. 4 weeks is more than you need, though.

 

[lpetrich]

Actually it's consumer driven.

"The consumers made me do it." I'm sure that resellers of stolen goods will LOVE that argument. I also don't see how that justifies the practices that you seem so desperate to defend.

Bring on the robots.

For your job also, dismal. If your job gets automated out of existence, will you meekly dispose of yourself as worthless and unproductive?

 

[laughing dog]

The proposed law is in draft form. If people read the OP article, the law has not been enacted as proposed and the city officials are willing to listen and to modify the proposal.

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Which is the main point. This isn't some vast left wing conspiracy to destroy capitalism and freedom, it's a reaction against expolitive practices which employees currently have to deal with.

Actually it's consumer driven. Can we make it a law that shoppers in a store can't complain about service?

I don't know of any consumer who is demanding that employees show up to work only to be set home without pay.

 

[dismal]

For your job also, dismal. If your job gets automated out of existence, will you meekly dispose of yourself as worthless and unproductive?

As I am part of the "them" who brings on the robots this will never happen.

I can nix it the first time it comes up at one of the meetings.

 

[coloradoatheist]

The proposed law is in draft form. If people read the OP article, the law has not been enacted as proposed and the city officials are willing to listen and to modify the proposal.

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Actually it's consumer driven. Can we make it a law that shoppers in a store can't complain about service?

I don't know of any consumer who is demanding that employees show up to work only to be set home without pay.

Except consumers want timely service when they enter the store/restaurant/etc. They don't want to wait around 30 mins to get service. And for retail and other stores you get rushes in, people want breaks, people call in so a store wants the ability to be able to call in someone when there are more customers. It's just an issue with retail and food that the need is during the opposite times of most schedules.

 

[ksen]

Man, how in the world did businesses ever make it before just-in-time scheduling became a thing?

 

[coloradoatheist]

Man, how in the world did businesses ever make it before just-in-time scheduling became a thing?

The expectations have changed. Can we get consumers to go back to expecting only 9 to 5 service?

 

[ksen]

Can we get you to prove it's consumer expectations that drove the need to invent just-in-time scheduling?

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Man, how in the world did businesses ever make it before just-in-time scheduling became a thing?

The expectations have changed. Can we get consumers to go back to expecting only 9 to 5 service?

I'm not sure what you are arguing here. Are you saying that customers are not served by having an excess of staff on hand?

On the flip side, jerking your employees around and working them when they are tired will get you lower quality service and lower quality employees.

 

[coloradoatheist]

The expectations have changed. Can we get consumers to go back to expecting only 9 to 5 service?

I'm not sure what you are arguing here. Are you saying that customers are not served by having an excess of staff on hand?

On the flip side, jerking your employees around and working them when they are tired will get you lower quality service and lower quality employees.

So the employees have to find the balance and that is the issue because customer demand isn't always the same so they are trying to find the right model. They do it now by having people on call in case customer demand increases, people get sick, etc.

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Can we get you to prove it's consumer expectations that drove the need to invent just-in-time scheduling?

So when you go into a store to get something you don't expect to get served in a timely manner?

 

[ksen]

http://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/finance/time-scheduling-save-companies-money/
http://www.epi.org/publication/irregular-work-scheduling-and-its-consequences/

Looks like just-in-time scheduling is not only bad for employees (pfft who cares) but it's also bad for the employer. I guess we'll just have to wait for The Market to get around to punishing these businesses that are making bad, expensive decisions.

 

[ksen]

Can we get you to prove it's consumer expectations that drove the need to invent just-in-time scheduling?

So when you go into a store to get something you don't expect to get served in a timely manner?

That's a "no" then?

 

[Ford]

So the employees have to find the balance and that is the issue because customer demand isn't always the same so they are trying to find the right model. They do it now by having people on call in case customer demand increases, people get sick, etc.

Why should it be the responsibility of the employees to "find the balance?" Management should plan accordingly, and if the business suffers because of poor decisions regarding staffing, the employer - not the employee - should take the hit.

Having your entire staff effectively "on call" at all times is just shitty management.

 

[dismal]

So the employees have to find the balance and that is the issue because customer demand isn't always the same so they are trying to find the right model. They do it now by having people on call in case customer demand increases, people get sick, etc.

Why should it be the responsibility of the employees to "find the balance?" Management should plan accordingly, and if the business suffers because of poor decisions regarding staffing, the employer - not the employee - should take the hit.

Having your entire staff effectively "on call" at all times is just shitty management.

To hear people who have run small businesses talk one of the big problem with scheduling employees is sometimes employees don't show up.

Should there be laws requiring employees to let employers know 4 weeks in advance if they aren't going to show up?

Or just huge fines and jail time?

 

[laughing dog]

The proposed law is in draft form. If people read the OP article, the law has not been enacted as proposed and the city officials are willing to listen and to modify the proposal.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't know of any consumer who is demanding that employees show up to work only to be set home without pay.

Except consumers want timely service when they enter the store/restaurant/etc. They don't want to wait around 30 mins to get service. And for retail and other stores you get rushes in, people want breaks, people call in so a store wants the ability to be able to call in someone when there are more customers. It's just an issue with retail and food that the need is during the opposite times of most schedules.

It's called paying employees to be around or on call.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Why should it be the responsibility of the employees to "find the balance?" Management should plan accordingly, and if the business suffers because of poor decisions regarding staffing, the employer - not the employee - should take the hit.

Having your entire staff effectively "on call" at all times is just shitty management.

To hear people who have run small businesses talk one of the big problem with scheduling employees is sometimes employees don't show up.

Should there be laws requiring employees to let employers know 4 weeks in advance if they aren't going to show up?

Or just huge fines and jail time?

At will employment.

 

[scombrid]

To hear people who have run small businesses talk one of the big problem with scheduling employees is sometimes employees don't show up.

Should there be laws requiring employees to let employers know 4 weeks in advance if they aren't going to show up?

Or just huge fines and jail time?

I think "you're fired" usually works.

 

[dismal]

To hear people who have run small businesses talk one of the big problem with scheduling employees is sometimes employees don't show up.

Should there be laws requiring employees to let employers know 4 weeks in advance if they aren't going to show up?

Or just huge fines and jail time?

I think "you're fired" usually works.

I'm told it also works for employees who don't like the bosses scheduling practices.

 

[scombrid]

Market asymmetry can render the analogy false.