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Now the Coup Starts

Jimmy Higgins

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surely Trump would lose in a landslide. That didn’t happen.
Yes, it did. He lost by more than 7 million votes and by an electoral margin that Trump himself called a landslide.
The fact that the playing field is tilted toward Republicans so that 43,000 votes could have flipped the electoral college despite a 7 million+ popular vote margin, is a testament to how heavily rigged the system is, not a measure of any enduring popularity of FFvC.
Considering he was the worst goddamn president ever and folks had four years to see the error of their ways, it should have been much worse. It should have been Hooverlike. In that it wasn't should have brought a moment of reflection. For me it was just as much a telling sign of the gross political ignorance of the populace as Sandy Hook was a telling moment of the politicians who run this country.
No one should be surprised, fascinated, or taken aback by anything these people might do or be convinced to do going forward. That is the baseline of what we are dealing with. I wish politicians would bear this in mind.

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Worst president ever?--worse than Shrub?-->I don't think so, not until his seditious behaviour after the election.
And let us remember that Shrub was initially elected via a successful coup--one he could have stopped after the 2000 election by stating "Let all the votes in Florida be counted."
Can we say Trump was the worst President and W was the worst Presidential Administration? It really is hard to gauge the worse one.

W, "watch what we say", Iraq, 2000, "Terror Alert" PR protection system, blindsided by terrorism while Richard Clarke was trying to bring notice of it, pissed off our allies, repeatedly, failed Afghan mission.

Trump, the lies never ended and he wouldn't shut up, tried to strong arm Ukraine into announcing a fake investigation into Joe Biden, secret meeting with Putin, a mockery to our allies, handed North Korea the most beautiful propaganda and declaring the nuclear issue over, reckless use of military with assassination, the rollover in the White House was a farce, and the whole trying to steal an election thing.

Trump is more recent, so it feels worse. But the W Admin was pretty damn bad. The impact of both will be felt for decades. Truthfully, W a major step that led to Trump.

Incredible how right-wing voters elected two of the dumbest and most incompetent Presidents in our history, back to back. In between there was McCain (pod person version) and Romney. Not insanely worthless politicians. But they faced Obama.
 

Elixir

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Not discounting your point, TV&CC, but Trump’s seditious behavior began in 2016 after the election and before he took office. Then it went on at increasing intensity for over four years.

Trump’s sole redeeming quality is his abject incompetence/stupidity.
 
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jab

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surely Trump would lose in a landslide. That didn’t happen.
Yes, it did. He lost by more than 7 million votes and by an electoral margin that Trump himself called a landslide.
The fact that the playing field is tilted toward Republicans so that 43,000 votes could have flipped the electoral college despite a 7 million+ popular vote margin, is a testament to how heavily rigged the system is, not a measure of any enduring popularity of FFvC.
Considering he was the worst goddamn president ever and folks had four years to see the error of their ways, it should have been much worse. It should have been Hooverlike. In that it wasn't should have brought a moment of reflection. For me it was just as much a telling sign of the gross political ignorance of the populace as Sandy Hook was a telling moment of the politicians who run this country.
No one should be surprised, fascinated, or taken aback by anything these people might do or be convinced to do going forward. That is the baseline of what we are dealing with. I wish politicians would bear this in mind.

View attachment 36720

View attachment 36721
Worst president ever?--worse than Shrub?-->I don't think so, not until his seditious behaviour after the election.
And let us remember that Shrub was initially elected via a successful coup--one he could have stopped after the 2000 election by stating "Let all the votes in Florida be counted."
Can we say Trump was the worst President and W was the worst Presidential Administration? It really is hard to gauge the worse one.

W, "watch what we say", Iraq, 2000, "Terror Alert" PR protection system, blindsided by terrorism while Richard Clarke was trying to bring notice of it, pissed off our allies, repeatedly, failed Afghan mission.

Trump, the lies never ended and he wouldn't shut up, tried to strong arm Ukraine into announcing a fake investigation into Joe Biden, secret meeting with Putin, a mockery to our allies, handed North Korea the most beautiful propaganda and declaring the nuclear issue over, reckless use of military with assassination, the rollover in the White House was a farce, and the whole trying to steal an election thing.

Trump is more recent, so it feels worse. But the W Admin was pretty damn bad. The impact of both will be felt for decades. Truthfully, W a major step that led to Trump.

Incredible how right-wing voters elected two of the dumbest and most incompetent Presidents in our history, back to back. In between there was McCain (pod person version) and Romney. Not insanely worthless politicians. But they faced Obama.
Trump was the worst person to be US President in my lifetime (1950s to present); but he wasn't quite as bad a president as Shrub, in my opinion, until his pathologies got the better of him and he melted down like a pissed-on snowflake when he lost the 2020 election.
 
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jab

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Not discounting your point, TV&CC, but Trump’s seditious behavior began in 2016 after the election and before he took office. Then it went on at increasing intensity for over four years.

Trump’s sole redeeming quality is his abject incompetence/stupidity.
Shrub was extremely stupid, but more humble or self-aware than Trump, so he surrounded himself with competent people, some of them quasi-fascists.
 

Keith&Co.

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I wonder if all these Republicans really ARE totally innocent of sedition, which they would love to clear, but the requests for information include internet activity, and unfortunately that's the day Trump texted, "Man, don't ever google 'Mr. Hands.'"
 

lpetrich

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Here's a case of a Republican imitating Trump and being a very sore loser.
Pro-Trump candidate in Florida is blaming election fraud for his humiliating defeat - Raw Story - Celebrating 17 Years of Independent Journalism
The special election on Jan 11 of this year for FL-20, vacated by the death of long-time incumbent Alcee Hastings.

Democrat Sheila Cherfilus-McCormick defeated Republican Jason Mariner 78.7% - 19.6% with three other candidates receiving 0.7%, 0.5%, and 0.5% of the vote.

One might expect losing by 59.1 percentage points to be a convincing defeat, but JM is now suing because he thinks that his loss was because of electoral fraud.

But SCMC's victory over JM was actually typical of the district. Here are her predecessor's victories: 2020 57.4, 2018 --, 2016 60.6, 2014 63.2, 2012 75.8, 2010 58.2, 2008 64.4, 2006 --, 2004 --, 2002 55.0, 2000 52.6, 1998 --, 1996 47.0, 1994 --, 1992 27.4. The -- means lack of a general-election challenger. SCMC's victory was not much different.

One has to ask what JM was thinking. Did he really consider himself such a great candidate that he'd win no matter what? Or was he using some nationwide or statewide vote fractions?

But some other Republicans have been good losers, like in the California governor recall and in the New Jersey governor race.
 

Swammerdami

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Trump is more recent, so it feels worse. But the W Admin was pretty damn bad. The impact of both will be felt for decades. Truthfully, W a major step that led to Trump.

Incredible how right-wing voters elected two of the dumbest and most incompetent Presidents in our history, back to back. In between there was McCain (pod person version) and Romney. Not insanely worthless politicians. But they faced Obama.
I hate to defend Shrub, but he had the potential to be a President on a par with Buchanan or Harding if he had asked his Mom to help him on major decisions and had selected a human being for the V.P. slot. Instead he made Darth Vader his V.P. and Darth appointed a Sec'y Defense who was in a hurry to play at War before he kicked the bucket. For chief political advisor Shrub went with Karl Rove, one of the most detestable slime-bags ever seen in U.S. politics.

The U.S. had never seen an Administration as corrupt and incompetent as the Cheney-Rove Administration. I assumed that its like would never recur even if the U.S. survived for another thousand years. Instead the horror was exceeded, in spades, in my own lifetime.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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Trump is more recent, so it feels worse. But the W Admin was pretty damn bad. The impact of both will be felt for decades. Truthfully, W a major step that led to Trump.

Incredible how right-wing voters elected two of the dumbest and most incompetent Presidents in our history, back to back. In between there was McCain (pod person version) and Romney. Not insanely worthless politicians. But they faced Obama.
I hate to defend Shrub, but he had the potential to be a President on a par with Buchanan or Harding if he had asked his Mom to help him on major decisions and had selected a human being for the V.P. slot. Instead he made Darth Vader his V.P. and Darth appointed a Sec'y Defense who was in a hurry to play at War before he kicked the bucket. For chief political advisor Shrub went with Karl Rove, one of the most detestable slime-bags ever seen in U.S. politics.

The U.S. had never seen an Administration as corrupt and incompetent as the Cheney-Rove Administration. I assumed that its like would never recur even if the U.S. survived for another thousand years. Instead the horror was exceeded, in spades, in my own lifetime.
That is why I led with W being the worst Administration.

The Trump Admin was dysfunctional and self-destructive.

Trump was a deviant in the White House. W, well over his head and could have been a decent person, but gave some pretty outdated dinosaurs unrestricted access to power. Trump and the GOP put the dumbest and at times anti-Government people in charge to self-destruct our Government in whole.

They are both quite awful.
 

ZiprHead

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Sidney Powell’s Got A Really Bad Idea And Howard Kleinhendler can make it worse!

On Tuesday, the January 6 Select Committee issued subpoenas to multiple Trumpland lawyers, including Rudy Giuliani and Sidney Powell.

“The Select Committee’s investigation has revealed credible evidence that you publicly promoted claims that the 2020 election was stolen and participated in attempts to disrupt or delay the certification of the election results based on your allegations,” the Committee wrote in a letter to the infamous Kraken lawyer. Which doesn’t speak much for their investigative skills, since Powell spent much of November, December, and January on television airing her theories about vote flipping by dastardly Venezuelans via Dominion and Smartmatic voting machines, and is now facing billions of dollars in defamation lawsuits for her troubles.

Plus there were all those doomed Kraken lawsuits, littering federal and state courtrooms like rotting mollusk carcasses. The Michigan one was so rank that it netted her and her trusty sidekicks, including attorney Howard Kleinhendler, blistering sanctions for depositing such an atrocity on the federal docket.

The Committee refers to similar lapses of judgment, such as reporting by Axios that she “urged President Trump to direct the seizure of voting machines around the country to find evidence that foreign adversaries had hacked those machines and altered the results of the election.”
From the website of Defending the Republic, her non-profit, which paid a fine in Florida for failing to comply with fundraising laws and was recently subpoenaed by a grand jury in DC in connection to the events leading up to the Capitol Riot:

Ms. Powell has received the January 6 Committee’s subpoena, and she looks forward to providing the Committee with significant evidence in support of the election fraud statements and claims she presented on behalf of the electors and clients she represented. Those claims are supported by expert reports and affidavits of witnesses that no court took the time to hear. Ms. Powell is a practicing lawyer, and she will comply to the full extent required by law and legal ethics.
Ms. Powell looks forward to appearing before the Committee to answer questions, walk through the evidence, and present a full picture of the fraud and other misconduct that took place during the 2020 Election, including the myriad of election fraud allegations only now being examined by state officials in Georgia, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania.
-Statement on behalf of Sidney Powell–From Howard Kleinhendler, Counsel for Sidney Powell
It’s a two-fer! Not only will the Committee get to hear from Powell, but her fellow sanctions traveler Howard Kleinhendler will be along for the ride. It only makes sense, after he did such an incredible job suing Major League Baseball for moving the All Star Game out of Atlanta.

Powell appears to think she’s going to use the hearing to show, once and for all, that her widely debunked election claims are FULLY BUNKED. That it is more likely that she proves the election was stolen than that she makes a lot of incendiary allegations that immediately show up as evidence in Dominion and Smartmatic’s defamation suits.

Luckily, Powell has an excellent track record dominating her interrogators. She’ll really show those congressmen what’s what!
 

SLD

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Trump is more recent, so it feels worse. But the W Admin was pretty damn bad. The impact of both will be felt for decades. Truthfully, W a major step that led to Trump.

Incredible how right-wing voters elected two of the dumbest and most incompetent Presidents in our history, back to back. In between there was McCain (pod person version) and Romney. Not insanely worthless politicians. But they faced Obama.
I hate to defend Shrub, but he had the potential to be a President on a par with Buchanan or Harding if he had asked his Mom to help him on major decisions and had selected a human being for the V.P. slot. Instead he made Darth Vader his V.P. and Darth appointed a Sec'y Defense who was in a hurry to play at War before he kicked the bucket. For chief political advisor Shrub went with Karl Rove, one of the most detestable slime-bags ever seen in U.S. politics.

The U.S. had never seen an Administration as corrupt and incompetent as the Cheney-Rove Administration. I assumed that its like would never recur even if the U.S. survived for another thousand years. Instead the horror was exceeded, in spades, in my own lifetime.
That is why I led with W being the worst Administration.

The Trump Admin was dysfunctional and self-destructive.

Trump was a deviant in the White House. W, well over his head and could have been a decent person, but gave some pretty outdated dinosaurs unrestricted access to power. Trump and the GOP put the dumbest and at times anti-Government people in charge to self-destruct our Government in whole.

They are both quite awful.
I think you’re forgetting Ronald Reagan. Without Reagan, neither of these cocksuckers would ever have gotten close to the Presidency. Reagan, without a doubt set the stage for both of these dumb motherfuckers. Truly the worst.
 

lpetrich

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Newt Gingrich Says Jan. 6 Committee Members ‘Face a Real Risk of Jail’ if Republicans Win the House
noting
The Wolves Will Become Sheep | Opinion
When some people acquire power, they act like wolves. They take whatever savage actions are needed to win and dominate. They turn their opponents and critics into sheep, who learn to be quiet or face vicious attacks and destruction.

...
We are currently living through a moment of delusion among Democrats, who seem to think they can behave like wolves and destroy and intimidate their Republican opponents. The wolves who currently dominate the Democratic Party think they will be permanent wolves. They are wrong. The 2022 midterm election will turn the Democratic wolves into sheep—and the power to shear the sheep will be handed over to House Republicans.

Watching the increasingly vicious and destructive actions of the House Democrats—along with the handful of Republican enablers on the January 6 Select Committee—combined with the astonishing viciousness of President Joe Biden's speeches at the U.S. Capitol on January 6 and in Atlanta on January 11, as well as Attorney General Merrick Garland's speeches and actions, has been the most sobering period in my more than 60 years in public life.

We now have a president and an attorney general who see at least half the country as their enemies. They are focused on attacking, smearing and defaming fellow Americans with whom they disagree. More frighteningly, the attorney general has the power to direct the FBI and U.S. Attorney's Offices to frame people and put them in jail on the most trivial of charges.
Then saying that Republicans ought to do to them what he claims that they are doing to Republicans.

Seems like he was doing what so many right-wingers so eagerly do: claim that their opponents are guilty of misdeeds that they themselves do.
 

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Newt Gingrich Says Jan. 6 Committee Members ‘Face a Real Risk of Jail’ if Republicans Win the House
Appearing on Sunday Morning Futures with Maria Baritromo, Gingrich expanded on an op-ed he wrote for Newsweek earlier this week titled “The Wolves Will Become Sheep,” in which he argued that January 6 committee members will have the tables turned on them if the GOP should gain control of Congress.

“You have — both with Attorney General [Merrick] Garland and with this select committee on January 6, people who have run amok,” Gingrich argued. He added, “What they need to understand is on January 4 next year, you’re going to have a Republican majority in the House and a Republican majority in the Senate. And all these people who have been so tough, and so mean, and so nasty are going to be delivered subpoenas for every document, every conversation, every tweet, every e-mail.”

Gingrich went on to blast Garland and the Jan. 6 committee as a “lynch mob.” He warned that Republicans may look to imprison their political opponents next January — arguing that their inquiry is breaking the law by “running over peoples’ civil liberties.”

“I think when you have a Republican Congress, this is all going to come crashing down,” Gingrich said. “And the wolves are going to find out that they’re now sheep and they’re the ones who are in fact, I think, face a real risk of jail for the kinds of laws they’re breaking.”
 

Loren Pechtel

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Newt Gingrich Says Jan. 6 Committee Members ‘Face a Real Risk of Jail’ if Republicans Win the House
Appearing on Sunday Morning Futures with Maria Baritromo, Gingrich expanded on an op-ed he wrote for Newsweek earlier this week titled “The Wolves Will Become Sheep,” in which he argued that January 6 committee members will have the tables turned on them if the GOP should gain control of Congress.

“You have — both with Attorney General [Merrick] Garland and with this select committee on January 6, people who have run amok,” Gingrich argued. He added, “What they need to understand is on January 4 next year, you’re going to have a Republican majority in the House and a Republican majority in the Senate. And all these people who have been so tough, and so mean, and so nasty are going to be delivered subpoenas for every document, every conversation, every tweet, every e-mail.”

Gingrich went on to blast Garland and the Jan. 6 committee as a “lynch mob.” He warned that Republicans may look to imprison their political opponents next January — arguing that their inquiry is breaking the law by “running over peoples’ civil liberties.”

“I think when you have a Republican Congress, this is all going to come crashing down,” Gingrich said. “And the wolves are going to find out that they’re now sheep and they’re the ones who are in fact, I think, face a real risk of jail for the kinds of laws they’re breaking.”
They're not even pretending they want democracy anymore.
 

ZiprHead

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Newt Gingrich Says Jan. 6 Committee Members ‘Face a Real Risk of Jail’ if Republicans Win the House
Appearing on Sunday Morning Futures with Maria Baritromo, Gingrich expanded on an op-ed he wrote for Newsweek earlier this week titled “The Wolves Will Become Sheep,” in which he argued that January 6 committee members will have the tables turned on them if the GOP should gain control of Congress.

“You have — both with Attorney General [Merrick] Garland and with this select committee on January 6, people who have run amok,” Gingrich argued. He added, “What they need to understand is on January 4 next year, you’re going to have a Republican majority in the House and a Republican majority in the Senate. And all these people who have been so tough, and so mean, and so nasty are going to be delivered subpoenas for every document, every conversation, every tweet, every e-mail.”

Gingrich went on to blast Garland and the Jan. 6 committee as a “lynch mob.” He warned that Republicans may look to imprison their political opponents next January — arguing that their inquiry is breaking the law by “running over peoples’ civil liberties.”

“I think when you have a Republican Congress, this is all going to come crashing down,” Gingrich said. “And the wolves are going to find out that they’re now sheep and they’re the ones who are in fact, I think, face a real risk of jail for the kinds of laws they’re breaking.”
What would the charges be?
 

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Newt Gingrich Says Jan. 6 Committee Members ‘Face a Real Risk of Jail’ if Republicans Win the House
Appearing on Sunday Morning Futures with Maria Baritromo, Gingrich expanded on an op-ed he wrote for Newsweek earlier this week titled “The Wolves Will Become Sheep,” in which he argued that January 6 committee members will have the tables turned on them if the GOP should gain control of Congress.

“You have — both with Attorney General [Merrick] Garland and with this select committee on January 6, people who have run amok,” Gingrich argued. He added, “What they need to understand is on January 4 next year, you’re going to have a Republican majority in the House and a Republican majority in the Senate. And all these people who have been so tough, and so mean, and so nasty are going to be delivered subpoenas for every document, every conversation, every tweet, every e-mail.”

Gingrich went on to blast Garland and the Jan. 6 committee as a “lynch mob.” He warned that Republicans may look to imprison their political opponents next January — arguing that their inquiry is breaking the law by “running over peoples’ civil liberties.”

“I think when you have a Republican Congress, this is all going to come crashing down,” Gingrich said. “And the wolves are going to find out that they’re now sheep and they’re the ones who are in fact, I think, face a real risk of jail for the kinds of laws they’re breaking.”
They're not even pretending they want democracy anymore.
Took you long enough to notice.
They stopped pretending around Nixon.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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I think you’re forgetting Ronald Reagan. Without Reagan, neither of these cocksuckers would ever have gotten close to the Presidency. Reagan, without a doubt set the stage for both of these dumb motherfuckers. Truly the worst.
Not forgetting, pretty much truncating the discussion as Lyndon Johnson signing the Civil Rights Act was also a major piece to this as Nixon would use it to wedge America against itself. And it has snowballed into this monstrosity.
 
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Jimmy Higgins

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Newt Gingrich Says Jan. 6 Committee Members ‘Face a Real Risk of Jail’ if Republicans Win the House
Appearing on Sunday Morning Futures with Maria Baritromo, Gingrich expanded on an op-ed he wrote for Newsweek earlier this week titled “The Wolves Will Become Sheep,” in which he argued that January 6 committee members will have the tables turned on them if the GOP should gain control of Congress.

“You have — both with Attorney General [Merrick] Garland and with this select committee on January 6, people who have run amok,” Gingrich argued. He added, “What they need to understand is on January 4 next year, you’re going to have a Republican majority in the House and a Republican majority in the Senate. And all these people who have been so tough, and so mean, and so nasty are going to be delivered subpoenas for every document, every conversation, every tweet, every e-mail.”

Gingrich went on to blast Garland and the Jan. 6 committee as a “lynch mob.” He warned that Republicans may look to imprison their political opponents next January — arguing that their inquiry is breaking the law by “running over peoples’ civil liberties.”

“I think when you have a Republican Congress, this is all going to come crashing down,” Gingrich said. “And the wolves are going to find out that they’re now sheep and they’re the ones who are in fact, I think, face a real risk of jail for the kinds of laws they’re breaking.”
They're not even pretending they want democracy anymore.
Took you long enough to notice.
They stopped pretending around Nixon.
I'd say 2009 was when I was hearing flat out authoritarian language from the AM Radio. The suggestions of being the minority power shouldn't mean not being in control.
 

SLD

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I think you’re forgetting Ronald Reagan. Without Reagan, neither of these cocksuckers would ever have gotten close to the Presidency. Reagan, without a doubt set the stage for both of these dumb motherfuckers. Truly the worst.
Not forgetting, pretty much truncating the discussion as Lyndon Johnson signing the Civil Rights Act was also a major piece to this as Nixon would use it to wedge America against itself. And it has snowballed into this monstrosity.
Indeed, the Nixon Southern strategy got him the White House. But it has polarized us ever since then And authoritarianism has creeped in. I recall predicting that Reagan would lead to a revolution in this country. A friend shook his head and said he never would believe that could happen in the US. He thought I meant during his administration, and I said,no, like in 40 years. I just didn’t like what they were saying in the neocon circles. The heritage foundation talked about what they’d like to see from Reagan, and I remember being deeply disturbed by its proposals.

But in 84 I voted for him, and Bush in 88. The key concerns at that time was the Arms debate vis a vis the Soviet Union. Everyone thought we were losing to them, and as a junior military officer at the time, I bought into it. Mondale’s big issue was a so called nuclear freeze. But that was a pointless issue. The threat of the Soviet Union was always well contained and war was never particularly close. Both sides were wrong. We talked with their leaders and worked out our disagreements and then suddenly they collapsed like a house of cards.

I supported Bush in Gulf War I. And I can still be somewhat conservative on foreign policy issues. But when the 92 Recession hit, and listening to the awful vitriolic speeches at the Republican Convention that year, I switched. Abortion issues and the evanglicalization of the party were just too much for me. I had also just finished law school then and believe I had been exposed to too many other ideas To continue supporting Republicans. I've never turned back.

What I can’t say I anticipated was why the near coup started. I didn’t realize what had really been happening until about ten years ago. I really believe that this boils down to growing income inequality more than anything. Racism is an outgrowth of that more than anything. The need for scape goats to blame for ones circumstances is key. Trump fueled those. He made it immigrants, but it could have just as easily been any non-white. It’s such an easy distraction for what’s really going on - the continued raping of our polity by the uber rich.
 

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I'd say 2009 was when I was hearing flat out authoritarian language from the AM Radio. The suggestions of being the minority power shouldn't mean not being in control.

I used to use AM radio when driving between cities, but my last two cars I've never even turned on the radio--there's nothing I want to listen to.
 

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You fucking knew this was coming

Donald Trump dangles the prospect of pardons for Capitol rioters if he returns as US president


Former US president Donald Trump has suggested he may pardon supporters who participated in the deadly January 6 storming of the Capitol if he returns to the White House.
"If I run and if I win, we will treat those people from January 6th fairly," Mr Trump said during a rally in Conroe, Texas on Saturday. "And if it requires pardons, we will give them pardons because they are being treated so unfairly."

Fucker isn't even bothering to pretend anymore. I look forward to the usual suspects trying to bullshit on how Democrats have been doing this for years.
 

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I'd say 2009 was when I was hearing flat out authoritarian language from the AM Radio. The suggestions of being the minority power shouldn't mean not being in control.

I used to use AM radio when driving between cities, but my last two cars I've never even turned on the radio--there's nothing I want to listen to.
Welcome to the club. My first two cars didn't have radios. My right winger father always had a radio with him and listened to that right wing skree constantly. I suppose that had its impression on me.
 

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Trump suggests he might pardon some Jan. 6 defendants - POLITICO
If he gets re-elected as President.
"Another thing we'll do — and so many people have been asking me about it — if I run and if I win, we will treat those people from January 6 fairly. We will treat them fairly,” he said at a rally in Conroe, Texas. “And if it requires pardons, we will give them pardons. Because they are being treated so unfairly.”

... Some of those facing the most serious charges grumbled about Trump’s inaction in his final days in office — thoughts captured in private messages obtained by the Justice Department — even as he pardoned dozens of other political allies.

"We are now and always have been on our own. So glad he was able to pardon a bunch of degenerates as his last move and shit on us on the way out," Proud Boys leader Ethan Nordean said in one message prosecutors included in a May 2021 court filing. "Fuck you trump you left us on [t]he battle field bloody and alone."
But if they were FBI or BLM or Antifa people, why would they be worth pardoning? These orgs must be awfully far behind the scenes if they were involved.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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This was my fear at the end of his Presidency. But he didn't pardon them.

Treated unfairly. If I invaded a place of work that required that place to be evacuated, I've got to think I wouldn't be handled with kid gloves by the courts.
 

Elixir

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This was my fear at the end of his Presidency. But he didn't pardon them.
He didn’t even know all their names, and it would have looked even worse than it did, if he had just pardoned the terrorist leaders he did know.
 

Keith&Co.

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This was my fear at the end of his Presidency. But he didn't pardon them.
He didn’t even know all their names, and it would have looked even worse than it did, if he had just pardoned the terrorist leaders he did know.
So, as the prosecution keeps working up the pyramid, they're going to start finding elected officials that were party to the insurrection.
Which the 14th Amendment makes them ineligible to serve in tjose electdd positions.
A pardon does not make the crime go away. Accepting a pardon actually acknowledges you're guilty. You just avoid prison.

If, say, Cawthorn is found to be lapel-pin deep in the overthrow, is challenged to prevent his candidacy based on that, does a pardon affect the challenge?
Legally, that is. Not in a 'trumpists take over and nothing matters' scenario.
 

Elixir

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This was my fear at the end of his Presidency. But he didn't pardon them.
He didn’t even know all their names, and it would have looked even worse than it did, if he had just pardoned the terrorist leaders he did know.
So, as the prosecution keeps working up the pyramid, they're going to start finding elected officials that were party to the insurrection.
Which the 14th Amendment makes them ineligible to serve in tjose electdd positions.
A pardon does not make the crime go away. Accepting a pardon actually acknowledges you're guilty. You just avoid prison.

If, say, Cawthorn is found to be lapel-pin deep in the overthrow, is challenged to prevent his candidacy based on that, does a pardon affect the challenge?
Legally, that is. Not in a 'trumpists take over and nothing matters' scenario.
We need to recruit some much higher priced lawyers to this forum.
 

Elixir

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Indeed, the Nixon Southern strategy got him the White House. But it has polarized us ever since then And authoritarianism has creeped in. I recall predicting that Reagan would lead to a revolution in this country. A friend shook his head and said he never would believe that could happen in the US. He thought I meant during his administration, and I said,no, like in 40 years. I just didn’t like what they were saying in the neocon circles. The heritage foundation talked about what they’d like to see from Reagan, and I remember being deeply disturbed by its proposals.

But in 84 I voted for him, and Bush in 88. The key concerns at that time was the Arms debate vis a vis the Soviet Union. Everyone thought we were losing to them, and as a junior military officer at the time, I bought into it. Mondale’s big issue was a so called nuclear freeze. But that was a pointless issue. The threat of the Soviet Union was always well contained and war was never particularly close. Both sides were wrong. We talked with their leaders and worked out our disagreements and then suddenly they collapsed like a house of cards.

I supported Bush in Gulf War I. And I can still be somewhat conservative on foreign policy issues. But when the 92 Recession hit, and listening to the awful vitriolic speeches at the Republican Convention that year, I switched. Abortion issues and the evanglicalization of the party were just too much for me. I had also just finished law school then and believe I had been exposed to too many other ideas To continue supporting Republicans. I've never turned back.

What I can’t say I anticipated was why the near coup started. I didn’t realize what had really been happening until about ten years ago. I really believe that this boils down to growing income inequality more than anything. Racism is an outgrowth of that more than anything. The need for scape goats to blame for ones circumstances is key. Trump fueled those. He made it immigrants, but it could have just as easily been any non-white. It’s such an easy distraction for what’s really going on - the continued raping of our polity by the uber rich.
SLD it is really affirming to read that post.
As one who has experienced involuntarily revulsion at Republican “ideas” since at least 1966, I am continuously re-examining my own views, lest I fall (more) victim to my own biases.
Kudos to you for the proven ability to overcome at least some of yours.
 
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Don2 (Don1 Revised)

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NEWS

Today at a rally in Texas Trump floated the idea of pardoning the insurrectionists if elected in 2024.

Graham later said it was something Trump shouldn't say.

After that MTG went off on Graham, saying he's disloyal.

They are normalizing coups and pardoning, banning disloyalty.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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This was my fear at the end of his Presidency. But he didn't pardon them.
He didn’t even know all their names, and it would have looked even worse than it did, if he had just pardoned the terrorist leaders he did know.
So, as the prosecution keeps working up the pyramid, they're going to start finding elected officials that were party to the insurrection.
Which the 14th Amendment makes them ineligible to serve in tjose electdd positions.
A pardon does not make the crime go away. Accepting a pardon actually acknowledges you're guilty. You just avoid prison.

If, say, Cawthorn is found to be lapel-pin deep in the overthrow, is challenged to prevent his candidacy based on that, does a pardon affect the challenge?
Legally, that is. Not in a 'trumpists take over and nothing matters' scenario.
That is fan fiction, it isn't going to happen. Insurrection would likely need to involve the use of weapons, and be organized.
 

RVonse

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I really believe that this boils down to growing income inequality more than anything.
That is the key to everything right there. It does not matter who you think is right or wrong, who was the worst president, or who is the best party (of 2 bad parties). If inequality does not get fixed one way or another, the political system becomes even more unstable and the US becomes a very bad place to live.
 
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RVonse

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You fucking knew this was coming

Donald Trump dangles the prospect of pardons for Capitol rioters if he returns as US president


Former US president Donald Trump has suggested he may pardon supporters who participated in the deadly January 6 storming of the Capitol if he returns to the White House.
"If I run and if I win, we will treat those people from January 6th fairly," Mr Trump said during a rally in Conroe, Texas on Saturday. "And if it requires pardons, we will give them pardons because they are being treated so unfairly."

Fucker isn't even bothering to pretend anymore. I look forward to the usual suspects trying to bullshit on how Democrats have been doing this for years.
It was probably a calculated move on Trump's part regarding future votes cast.
 

Keith&Co.

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This was my fear at the end of his Presidency. But he didn't pardon them.
He didn’t even know all their names, and it would have looked even worse than it did, if he had just pardoned the terrorist leaders he did know.
So, as the prosecution keeps working up the pyramid, they're going to start finding elected officials that were party to the insurrection.
Which the 14th Amendment makes them ineligible to serve in tjose electdd positions.
A pardon does not make the crime go away. Accepting a pardon actually acknowledges you're guilty. You just avoid prison.

If, say, Cawthorn is found to be lapel-pin deep in the overthrow, is challenged to prevent his candidacy based on that, does a pardon affect the challenge?
Legally, that is. Not in a 'trumpists take over and nothing matters' scenario.
That is fan fiction, it isn't going to happen. Insurrection would likely need to involve the use of weapons, and be organized.
Cawthorn keeps calling for violence.
Organization, meh.
Depends on thd jury, i think.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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This was my fear at the end of his Presidency. But he didn't pardon them.
He didn’t even know all their names, and it would have looked even worse than it did, if he had just pardoned the terrorist leaders he did know.
So, as the prosecution keeps working up the pyramid, they're going to start finding elected officials that were party to the insurrection.
Which the 14th Amendment makes them ineligible to serve in tjose electdd positions.
A pardon does not make the crime go away. Accepting a pardon actually acknowledges you're guilty. You just avoid prison.

If, say, Cawthorn is found to be lapel-pin deep in the overthrow, is challenged to prevent his candidacy based on that, does a pardon affect the challenge?
Legally, that is. Not in a 'trumpists take over and nothing matters' scenario.
That is fan fiction, it isn't going to happen. Insurrection would likely need to involve the use of weapons, and be organized.
Cawthorn keeps calling for violence.
Organization, meh.
Depends on thd jury, i think.
The Jury would ultimately be the Supreme Court.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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I really believe that this boils down to growing income inequality more than anything.
That is the key to everything right there. It does not matter who you think is right or wrong, who was the worst president, or who is the best party (of 2 bad parties).
You are glossing over the whole President Trump and his allies speaking about going to the Capitol Bldg, wage a "trial by combat".
If inequality does not get fixed one way or another, the political system becomes even more unstable and the US becomes a very bad place to live.
Inequality my ass. Nixon and the Republicans have done a marvelous job of pitting Americans against Americans. Not over equality, but over almost nothing at all. Shit has got so bad, some right-wingers were taking horse dewormer, but that got better when some docs prescribed anti-lice medication... to deal with Covid-19. The movement that tried to reinstate Trump on 2020 has almost no ideological purpose other than wanting the "good ole times back".
 

Keith&Co.

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Huh. So Trump wants to pardon members of Antifa?
Of course.
Remember the pardons he did grant? He's doing this for the money. It's always about the money.
"I'm gonna pardon every antifa rioter that Soros will pay for. Suck him dry! Then he can't afford a BLM riot!"
 

lpetrich

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Justice Dept. grabbed phone, email records of Bannon attorney Robert Costello in Jan. 6 contempt probe - The Washington Post
Bannon’s team decried the collection Robert J. Costello’s records, saying it may have violated attorney-client privilege.

...
The latest developments highlight Costello’s role in Trump’s orbit. A former federal prosecutor and longtime white-collar defense attorney in New York City, Costello, 74, has represented figures such as George Steinbrenner and Leona Helmsley and litigated matters involving the top U.S. professional football, basketball and baseball leagues. Since 2018, he has emerged as a counselor to close Trump aides in politically sensitive investigations.

Before advising Bannon in the House’s probe of events related to the Jan. 6 riot that disrupted Congress’s certification the election of President Biden, Costello in December 2020 joined Bannon’s defense when he was charged in what Manhattan federal prosecutors called a massive fundraising scam targeting the donors of a private campaign to build a wall along the U.S.-Mexico border. Bannon, accused of pocketing more than $1 million from his involvement with “We Build the Wall,” pleaded not guilty before Trump pardoned him hours before leaving office on Jan. 20, 2021.
 

ZiprHead

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About 140 Republican leaders and former officials signed a statement out Monday condemning the Republican National Committee's decision last week to censure Reps. Liz Cheney (R-Wyo.) and Adam Kinzinger (R-Ill.) over their participation in the Jan. 6 select committee.
The more Republicans they alienate, the better.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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About 140 Republican leaders and former officials signed a statement out Monday condemning the Republican National Committee's decision last week to censure Reps. Liz Cheney (R-Wyo.) and Adam Kinzinger (R-Ill.) over their participation in the Jan. 6 select committee.
The more Republicans they alienate, the better.
In a perfect world yes, however, we are watching the GOP continue it's path toward authoritarianism... and we'll be (we are being) dragged in with it, because the people have a tendency of voting for the other party because it was "time for a change".
 

Elixir

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people have a tendency of voting for the other party because it was "time for a change
People are stupid.
If they are not made to realize that a change this November will be the last change they will ever be allowed to make, this probably WILL be it.
I don’t know if Putin’s first reelection wa free and fair at all, but it might be a good analog to what Americans are about to do to themselves.
 
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