Oakland bakery features mural of a convicted terrorist

[whichphilosophy]

How many of them are there? Please cite a source for information on their numbers. We can compare it to the FBI data on the Klan and the Nazis.

Highly orchestrated groups of ANTIFA are regularly meeting to prevent non socialists from speaking at universities, which were once considered as the cradles of free speech. The KKK, Vanguard and other groups have a past history of this. They can’t get away so easily nowadays but some individuals cannot resist their homicidal tendencies.

You keep saying the extreme right wing as exemplified by the KKK, Vanguard, etc. have a 'past' history of violence but nowadays they can’t get away with it so easily. Well, it's true that with cell phones everywhere it's harder for them to get away with their usual thuggery, but you seem to be hinting that their violence is a thing of the past. That's just not so, as anyone paying attention can easily see. Just in the last month we've seen a Nazi kill a woman and injure 19 others, a pack of white supremacists beating a man and bragging about it later, a white supremacists threatening a black protester by drawing his gun and firing it at people, and a whole lot of intimidation tactics. It's their standard M.O., and they've been doing it for over 100 years. It's generational. But you think Antifa is just as bad?

I think you're trying too hard to appear impartial. Yeah, shutting down speech is bad for a free society, but threatening, beating, and killing people is worse. Much worse.

Antifa is becoming a bit of a problem. The KKK, the Nazis, and the white supremacist movement is a problem, a fucking huge one, and has been one for decades. So why all the angst about Antifa and pooh-poohing what the Klan and Nazis do?


ETA: I could have saved myself some typing if I'd just read ZiprHead's post in another thread first:

I’m Sick Of Busting My Ass Doing Neo-Nazi Stuff Only To Have Some Masked Antifa Dweebs Get Credit As The Real Fascists

When you work at something for years, really taking the time to master it, you expect a little bit of recognition. So that’s why what’s happening right now in America is really getting under my skin: I am sick of busting my ass doing neo-Nazi stuff only to have masked Antifa dipshits swoop in and get credit as the real fascists.

Let me break down just how unjust this is. Me and my friends have worked hard for years to promote white supremacy, nationalism, and eugenics. We’ve cyber-stalked feminists. We’ve burnt crosses. We’ve harassed queers in the light of day. And yet, these Antifa dorks, many of whom aren’t even fucking white, break a few windows in Berkeley and get called fascists by as many, if not more, people online as we do?

Un-fucking-believable!

Using smart phones is a deterrent hence ANTIFA mobs disguise themselves. KKK members given the opportunity based on their history would not hesitate to start lynching people again. They do commit a couple of murders a year.

They could copy ANTIFA and start wearing masks also. However the Republicans whose rallies sometimes get attacked are not committing murders which contradicts the ANTIFA mantra that Trump is somehow a fascist and KKK. There aren’t enough of them to even act as a swing vote.

However ANTIFA calls anything to the right of its agenda ‘Fascist.’
On news footage there are always larger ANTIFA groups turning up and committing daily assaults. Ultra-rightists do this also but there are less of them. It’s a matter of quantities.
ANTIFA is today’s problem as confirmed by Nancy Pelosi’s condemnation. Apart from an individual who killed one person and injured 19 others, how many murders were committed by members of ultra rightist groups.

The impartiality is for the purpose of stating both are just as dangerous and insane as each other. ANTIFA members haven’t killed anyone at this point but potentially could taking into account individual violent actions.

When evaluating two idiots having a punch up the conclusion is two idiots having a punch up.

Right wing bozos assault people and so are ANTIFA, BAMN and other fanatics of their ilk.

The way ANTIFA is going about things a death is only a matter of time:

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDwXuNcXhDQ[/YOUTUBE]


Sanders has condemned ANTIFA violence.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/08/18/us/unmasking-antifa-anti-fascists-hard-left/index.html

Sanders, for his part, has disavowed violence and is not connected with Antifa efforts. A self-described democratic socialist, Sanders has come out against "hard-left" violence, saying of protests over Coulter's UC Berkeley appearance, "I don't like this."
"Obviously, Ann Coulter's outrageous -- to my mind, off the wall," Sanders said. "But you know, people have a right to give their two cents' worth, give a speech, without fear of violence and intimidation.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

If you think the left wing has committed violence anywhere approaching the levels I've witnesses coming from the right wing during my lifetime, please post your list of names and incidents. There have been some, to be sure. And I've condemned them. But you have to be willfully blind not to see that there is no leftist inspired violence in the US that comes anywhere close to matching the death toll and number of victims of right wing violence. So let's not pretend they're all the same. You, I, everyone on this board, and everyone we know are far more likely to be killed or injured by a right-winger than by someone on the left.

Step one accomplished.

You did a google search and presented evidence? I didn't see it.

You are right, I should have written "step one begins" instead of "step one accomplished". You are denying major violence from the radical left and insisting I use google for you. That way, when I come back with results you make the two claims I described.

You're wrong. I don't think

1. Every instance of left wing violence is a lone nutjob not representative of the group, while every instance of right wing violence is representative of the groups not a lone nutjob,

and I don't think

2. The ability to use Google means [you're] a right-winger.

I would like to see what instances of left-wing violence over the last 60+ years you think equal the violence committed by right-wingers over the same timeframe. I remember bombings, bank robberies, and police officers being killed, but nothing like the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah building, the attacks at Planned Parenthood clinics, the bombing of the 16th Street Baptist Church in Birmingham, or the murders and mayhem carried out by the KKK over the years.

BTW, I don't think the individual members of the Weathermen or SLA were lone nutjobs. I just think the violence they and their fellow radicals committed pales in comparison with the violence committed by right wingers over the same time period, and that unlike the KKK and Nazis, they're no longer hurting people. Do you disagree?

I agree that you described groups that don't really exist anymore. That you even admit to them, though, is surprising.

Of course, one of the reasons the left doesn't have as many big scores is that they're simply not as good at it. Not for lack of trying, but for lack of success.

It seems to me their lack of success compared to right-wing extremists is due to their having far fewer numbers. There just aren't as many left leaning extremists willing to murder people for their cause as there are Nazis, Klansmen, and Rightwing extremists willing to shoot, bomb, lynch, mow down, drive over, and beat to death people they don't like.

Okay. One very quick Google search, and the first two results which I didn't even bother to vet.

Left v. right violence
A Brief History of Radical Left-Wing Violence in America

Now go ahead and tell me how every violent act from the left represents nothing but a rouge nut while every violent act from the right represents the entire group of ideologies as a whole, and that my ability to use Google is proof that I'm a right-winger.

I'd like to include the Republican Baseball shooting, but he is proof that the left needs to work on its Marxmanship. Give someone who doesn't think that guns are evil mind control machines a similar firearm and you'd find a bigger kill ratio.

 

[Arctish]

If you think the left wing has committed violence anywhere approaching the levels I've witnesses coming from the right wing during my lifetime, please post your list of names and incidents. There have been some, to be sure. And I've condemned them. But you have to be willfully blind not to see that there is no leftist inspired violence in the US that comes anywhere close to matching the death toll and number of victims of right wing violence. So let's not pretend they're all the same. You, I, everyone on this board, and everyone we know are far more likely to be killed or injured by a right-winger than by someone on the left.

Step one accomplished.

You did a google search and presented evidence? I didn't see it.

You are right, I should have written "step one begins" instead of "step one accomplished". You are denying major violence from the radical left and insisting I use google for you. That way, when I come back with results you make the two claims I described.

You're wrong. I don't think

1. Every instance of left wing violence is a lone nutjob not representative of the group, while every instance of right wing violence is representative of the groups not a lone nutjob,

and I don't think

2. The ability to use Google means [you're] a right-winger.

I would like to see what instances of left-wing violence over the last 60+ years you think equal the violence committed by right-wingers over the same timeframe. I remember bombings, bank robberies, and police officers being killed, but nothing like the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah building, the attacks at Planned Parenthood clinics, the bombing of the 16th Street Baptist Church in Birmingham, or the murders and mayhem carried out by the KKK over the years.

BTW, I don't think the individual members of the Weathermen or SLA were lone nutjobs. I just think the violence they and their fellow radicals committed pales in comparison with the violence committed by right wingers over the same time period, and that unlike the KKK and Nazis, they're no longer hurting people. Do you disagree?

I agree that you described groups that don't really exist anymore. That you even admit to them, though, is surprising.

Of course, one of the reasons the left doesn't have as many big scores is that they're simply not as good at it. Not for lack of trying, but for lack of success.

It seems to me their lack of success compared to right-wing extremists is due to their having far fewer numbers. There just aren't as many left leaning extremists willing to murder people for their cause as there are Nazis, Klansmen, and Rightwing extremists willing to shoot, bomb, lynch, mow down, drive over, and beat to death people they don't like.

Okay. One very quick Google search, and the first two results which I didn't even bother to vet.

Left v. right violence
A Brief History of Radical Left-Wing Violence in America

Ffs, if you didn't even bother to vet these articles, why should I bother to read them? Do you think they are well sourced and accurate, or did you just throw something up in the hopes that it might be kinda sorta okay?

Anyway, if all those two articles do is point out that Leftists can be violent, too, what's the issue here? AFAICS, no one is disputing that point. What they are disputing is the basis for equating Antifa and the counter-protesters in Charlottesville with the KKK and Nazis. It's a gross exaggeration. Speculating that some or most Antifa members might someday be just as violent as white supremacists is fine, but to then treat your speculation as though it was a proven fact is ridiculous.

I don't understand how people can be so oblivious to the murders, arson, and terrorism committed by white supremacists over the last 160 or so years. I suppose they simply weren't paying attention. That or they just don't fucking care when bands of murderous thugs commit atrocities. But that just makes me wonder why, when they finally started caring, they got all upset about groups known mostly for disorderly conduct, blocking traffic, and telling Milo to STFU. Why aren't they upset that the KKK and the Nazis, groups notorious for murder and mayhem, are making a very public comeback and gaining new members from the generation just coming of age?

IDGI.

Now go ahead and tell me how every violent act from the left represents nothing but a rouge nut while every violent act from the right represents the entire group of ideologies as a whole, and that my ability to use Google is proof that I'm a right-winger.

Why should I do that? It sounds like you still want me to prove you right even though I've already said you're wrong.

What triggers an individual nutjob is highly personal and fairly unpredictable. Some go off the deep end when a town cuts down a tree, others when they swallow too much of Alex Jones' swill, and others for reasons that most people find unfathomable. They don't join nutjob clubs, or swear to uphold the Nutjob Oath, or sign up to bring hot dogs to the Nutjob Rally in the park.

Klansmen, Nazis, Antifa, Black Block, etc., are different. They do join clubs, promote a specific ideology, march and chant together, wear matching outfits, and do all sorts of things as a group. In this thread I have been discussing the joiners, not the loners. So let's just leave the loners for another discussion.