Obama Commutes bulk of Chelsea Manning's sentence

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I think when the govt is the perpetrator people ought to be able to blow the whistle in the press instead.

That makes little sense. If folks in government are willing to go to that length to cover things up, then they will not react well to you leaking to the press, even of the wrongdoing.

Better to think very hard about if you're actually right, and if you're completely sure, just assume that you'll be attacked for it by the government, and accept it as a sacrifice that you're making.

It would of course be difficult for the govt to agree with this proposal, but imo it's how things should be, generally speaking with exceptions.

 

[Mumbles]

That makes little sense. If folks in government are willing to go to that length to cover things up, then they will not react well to you leaking to the press, even of the wrongdoing.

Better to think very hard about if you're actually right, and if you're completely sure, just assume that you'll be attacked for it by the government, and accept it as a sacrifice that you're making.

It would of course be difficult for the govt to agree with this proposal, but imo it's how things should be, generally speaking with exceptions.

My view is more that a government could break any such proposal, at will - I guess I'm stating something far more cynical than you are. I don't disagree with what you think should be, but *should* and *are*, well...not the same thing. Even for us in the US.

It's true that our government should be pushed towards "should", and that, in Manning's case, the solitary confinement was simply torture. And that's why I don't object to the commuted sentence.

And yes, I know you're proposing an ideal. What I'm saying is that folks like Manning cannot afford to act on an ideal. To react to the ideal, rather than the reality, is just walking into a buzzsaw with their eyes covered. Better to know what you're walking into, and accept it as the price you'll pay.

And if things work out better...then yay!

 

[J842P]

It would of course be difficult for the govt to agree with this proposal, but imo it's how things should be, generally speaking with exceptions.

My view is more that a government could break any such proposal, at will - I guess I'm stating something far more cynical than you are. I don't disagree with what you think should be, but *should* and *are*, well...not the same thing. Even for us in the US.

It's true that our government should be pushed towards "should", and that, in Manning's case, the solitary confinement was simply torture. And that's why I don't object to the commuted sentence.

And yes, I know you're proposing an ideal. What I'm saying is that folks like Manning cannot afford to act on an ideal. To react to the ideal, rather than the reality, is just walking into a buzzsaw with their eyes covered. Better to know what you're walking into, and accept it as the price you'll pay.

And if things work out better...then yay!

Indeed, that is why Snowden reacted the way he did. People telling home to "come home and face the music" are nuts. He wouldn't recieve a fair trial and would likely spend his sentence in solitary.


https://stanfordreview.org/daniel-e...al-and-kerry-is-wrong-205123de5dbf#.q6eff9r4p
Snowden is a hero facing the forces of evil.

 

[Mumbles]

Indeed, that is why Snowden reacted the way he did. People telling home to "come home and face the music" are nuts. He wouldn't recieve a fair trial and would likely spend his sentence in solitary.


https://stanfordreview.org/daniel-e...al-and-kerry-is-wrong-205123de5dbf#.q6eff9r4p
Snowden is a hero facing the forces of evil.

Actually, my point was that Snowden's the guy you *don't* want to imitate.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

It seems that Chelsea Manning is heading back to jail for refusing to testify against WikiLeaks.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

It seems that Chelsea Manning is heading back to jail for refusing to testify against WikiLeaks.

This thread resurrect through me. For a moment I thought Trump had been a bad dream and Obama was still president.

Your presidents really shouldn't have this power to begin with btw. That's what judges and the legal system are for.

 

[PyramidHead]

It seems that Chelsea Manning is heading back to jail for refusing to testify against WikiLeaks.

This thread resurrect through me. For a moment I thought Trump had been a bad dream and Obama was still president.

Your presidents really shouldn't have this power to begin with btw. That's what judges and the legal system are for.

They shouldn't have that power either btw.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

I like the power of clemency and the power of pardon. They both don't create any law, but they do rescue people from under the weight of law. They can be abused, yes, but they can also save people from abuse.

 

[Derec]

This thread resurrect through me. For a moment I thought Trump had been a bad dream and Obama was still president.

Your presidents really shouldn't have this power to begin with btw. That's what judges and the legal system are for.

Your queen has a similar power (exercised through the guv'nor general) and she is not even elected.
Note also that the president has the pardon/commutation power for federal convictions only. Take Manafort. Trump could pardon him for the federal crimes he was convicted of, but if NY successfully prosecutes him, only Andrew Cuomo (as governor of NY) could pardon him.