Obama's Ongoing Foreign Policy Failure - Putin's Bitch

[Jimmy Higgins]

But you said they were targetting al Qaeda as located in the FSA, not ISIL.

They are attacking both, and it's your problem that al Qaeda is part of your FSA not Russia's.

Have they attacked both? And why is that even remotely my problem?

And why is it hard for to accept that Russia wants to keep Assad in power?

 

[barbos]

They are attacking both, and it's your problem that al Qaeda is part of your FSA not Russia's.

Have they attacked both? And why is that even remotely my problem?

If we believe Pentagon and Russian report then yes, they attacked al-Nusra (Syrian al Qaeda) and ISIS.

And why is it hard for to accept that Russia wants to keep Assad in power?

Who is not accepting? Of course they want to keep Assad in power (for the time being at least)
Even US (and EU) agrees with that now.
And why is it hard to accept that unless US are prepared to invade Syria there is no other way to fight ISIS?

 

[laughing dog]

You have not shown no such thing.

If you actually read posts, you could avoid such obvious admissions of ignorance. The OED is not an obscure source. Nor is common usage.

Bit rich, coming from you.

Wow, a pathetic "No u" retort. A 19 year old can legitimately referred to as a child under the most common definition in the English language even if it does contradict your ignorance-based biases.

 

[Bacillus anthracis]

This thing has a long way to go. To think that a few Russian contributions to it will solve the problem is utter fantasy. Until Russia supplies tens of thousands of its own troops along with the requisite equipment, along with a total war strategy to subdue Assad's enemies, this is not a lot more than a show.

Syria is a longtime ally of Russia's as has been pointed out. The same cannot be said of the U.S.-Syria relationship. So it only makes sense that Russia would support Syria. But why has it taken so long? Where was Russia when all this first started going down? Now Putin, the right's hero, is going to save the day?

1. That's a farce.
2. It'd be a hilarious farce were the circumstances not what they are

Assad will never again enjoy the free reign to "govern" as he has in the past. And no one, not even the mighty Putin riding shirtless and bareback on a purple unicorn, is going to change that.

 

[barbos]

This thing has a long way to go. To think that a few Russian contributions to it will solve the problem is utter fantasy. Until Russia supplies tens of thousands of its own troops along with the requisite equipment, along with a total war strategy to subdue Assad's enemies, this is not a lot more than a show.

Syria is a longtime ally of Russia's as has been pointed out. The same cannot be said of the U.S.-Syria relationship. So it only makes sense that Russia would support Syria. But why has it taken so long? Where was Russia when all this first started going down? Now Putin, the right's hero, is going to save the day?

1. That's a farce.
2. It'd be a hilarious farce were the circumstances not what they are

Assad will never again enjoy the free reign to "govern" as he has in the past. And no one, not even the mighty Putin riding shirtless and bareback on a purple unicorn, is going to change that.

Iran is supplying boots on the ground.
As for "minuscule" airpower Russia currently provides then it's still order of magnitude more than what Assad have had so far.
Assad have been written off before so I would not bet much on him going.
Truth is, ISIS may be severely overrated and russians probably know that.

 

[Nexus]

I already provided the evidence of SU-30M superiority in air to air combat from Aviation Week, wikipedia, and the combat games with India's Su's.

I quoted your post before reading the entire thread so I missed the war simulation tests. However, hypotheticals don't mean much compared to decades of exemplary war time action.

And lets look at the mock fights more closely. link

Two factors have been cited as major reasons why the 3rd Wing took a drubbing. None of the participating American aircraft had the latest long-range AESA radars, although some of the F-15Cs of the Wing had this equipment. A decision had been made beforehand not to send the AESA equipped planes to India due to the additional maintenance package required to support them. A total of six F-15Cs were sent to India, each equipped with a fighter data link, short-range AIM-9X heat-seeking air-to-air missiles, and the U.S.'s helmet-mounted cueing system.

Secondly, at India's request, the U.S. agreed to mock combat at 3-to-1 odds and without the full range of capabilities of simulated long-range radar-guided AIM-120 AMRAAM missiles. U.S. fighters could not use the active on-board radar capability of the AMRAAM, and the missile was limited to around 32 kilometers range and required the use of the F-15C's onboard radar to target Indian aircraft. In standard use, AMRAAM has a range of over 100 kilometers and is a fire-and-forget missile that doesn't require additional guidance from the F-15.

The F-15s flew in groups of 4 against packages of 12 Indian Air Force aircraft consisting of a mix of Mirage 2000, Su-30, Mig-21, and Mig-27 aircraft. The Mirage and Su-30 aircraft were used in the air-to-air role, while the Mig-27 was used as the strike aircraft with the Mig-21 providing escort to the Mig-27s. The Indians also had a simulated AWACS platform and the use of simulated active radar missiles such as the AA-12 and the French Mica, unlike the F-15Cs. This gave the Indian Air Force a fire-and-forget air-to-air missile capability that the U.S. fighters didn't have, a heavily unrealistic assumption in actual hostilities.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

We do see a lot of child deaths that presumed to be combatant deaths. A person is a noncombatant until shown otherwise.

When a very disproportionate number of "child" deaths are 16 and 17 year old males it's clear they are mostly combatants.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

That's not what he was saying. Rather, he was saying "child" and "jihadist" are not incompatible terms. Showing that a casualty was a "child" does not prove he was a noncombatant.

We see a lot of this in Gaza--a lot of the "child" deaths are 16 and 17.

Sure, but isn't the same true of the "children" killed by Russia's bombing campaign? The good US-backed rebels use teenagers the same as the jihadists do. Heck by any reasonable measure they are jihadists, the only difference is that their jihad is against Assad.

I haven't seen any statistics on the demographics of the casualties in Syria.

Since Syria doesn't give a hoot about civilian casualties in rebel areas I would expect there would be less of a skewing towards combatant "children" but I'm sure there is some such skewing.

 

[maxparrish]

On the subject of Putin owing Obama, it looks like he is now getting more daring in the Ukraine:

The Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe, which is monitoring a ceasefire in eastern Ukraine, reported that its monitors had seen a mobile TOS-1 'Buratino' weapons system for the first time.

The Buratino is equipped with thermobaric warheads which spread a flammable liquid around a target and then ignite it. It can destroy several city blocks in one strike and cause indiscriminate damage.

Only Russia produces the system and it was not exported to Ukraine before the conflict broke out, according to IHS Jane's Group and the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, which track arms exports....

The Russian defense ministry did not reply to written questions from Reuters about whether Ukrainian rebels were supplied with the weapon or where it had been exported.

Russia denies its military is even in Ukraine. But there have been numerous signs that Moscow backed the rebels with troops and equipment. Reuters reporters spotted two burnt-out tanks last year which military experts identified as Russian army tanks in rebel-held territory.

Alexander Hug, deputy chief monitor of the OSCE monitoring mission to Ukraine, told Reuters by phone monitors had spotted the Buratino at a rebel training area in the village of Kruhlyk....

http://www.businessinsider.com/r-os...cket-system-in-ukraine-for-first-time-2015-10

And, by the way, Putin has recently order an increase in the draft by another 150,000 a year. Putin smells weakness, and he does not see any pushback that he fears.

 

[Will Wiley]

One more time, Free Syrian Army are not your friends, just because you renamed al-Qaeda into Free Syrian Army does not mean they are your friends:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...03d06f4-3b2e-11e2-9258-ac7c78d5c680_blog.html

But isn't Russia saying they are targeting ISIL, not al Qaeda?

Where did Russia say that?
I don't doubt that has been reported but it'snot was was said

 

[Will Wiley]

This thing has a long way to go. To think that a few Russian contributions to it will solve the problem is utter fantasy.

Maybe, but perhaps the main problem has been the United States supplying weapons. The various terrorist groups don't make their own weapons.If the USA stops supplying the weapons that the terrorists are using then that makes a difference.

Most of the "moderate Islamists" that the US gave weapons to defected to ISIL anyway. If there are more moderate groups that have been receiving weapons then they probably won't be as keen to get them now I'd say.

 

[Jayjay]

But isn't Russia saying they are targeting ISIL, not al Qaeda?

Where did Russia say that?
I don't doubt that has been reported but it'snot was was said

First hit on Google:

Russian jets have performed 14 combats flights, conducting six pinpoint airstrikes against Islamic State targets in Syria on Friday, according to Russia’s Defense Ministry.

“During the day, the Russian aviation group continued conducting pinpoint airstrikes against the infrastructure of the IS group in Syria,” Defense Ministry spokesman, Igor Konashenkov, said.

 

[Jayjay]

This thing has a long way to go. To think that a few Russian contributions to it will solve the problem is utter fantasy.

Maybe, but perhaps the main problem has been the United States supplying weapons. The various terrorist groups don't make their own weapons.If the USA stops supplying the weapons that the terrorists are using then that makes a difference.

Most of the "moderate Islamists" that the US gave weapons to defected to ISIL anyway. If there are more moderate groups that have been receiving weapons then they probably won't be as keen to get them now I'd say.

Biggest supplier of weapons to ISIL has been Assad himself. He figured that by letting extremists free reign and allowing them to cross border to Iraq would foil American success in Iraq, and also it would give him cover to brand any opposition in Syria as "terrorists".

 

[barbos]

Maybe, but perhaps the main problem has been the United States supplying weapons. The various terrorist groups don't make their own weapons.If the USA stops supplying the weapons that the terrorists are using then that makes a difference.

Most of the "moderate Islamists" that the US gave weapons to defected to ISIL anyway. If there are more moderate groups that have been receiving weapons then they probably won't be as keen to get them now I'd say.

Biggest supplier of weapons to ISIL has been Assad himself. He figured that by letting extremists free reign and allowing them to cross border to Iraq would foil American success in Iraq, and also it would give him cover to brand any opposition in Syria as "terrorists".

That's just total bullshit.
Biggest supplier of weapons to ISIS was Iraqi army which got it from US.

 

[Will Wiley]

Where did Russia say that?
I don't doubt that has been reported but it'snot was was said

First hit on Google:

Russian jets have performed 14 combats flights, conducting six pinpoint airstrikes against Islamic State targets in Syria on Friday, according to Russia’s Defense Ministry.

“During the day, the Russian aviation group continued conducting pinpoint airstrikes against the infrastructure of the IS group in Syria,” Defense Ministry spokesman, Igor Konashenkov, said.

Neither of those have Russia saying they are bombing ISIL and not Al Qaeda though...?....so....you point was??

You need to get rid of the US media lens you are instructed to put on. Think about it man , think for yourself!

 

[Jayjay]

First hit on Google:

Russian jets have performed 14 combats flights, conducting six pinpoint airstrikes against Islamic State targets in Syria on Friday, according to Russia’s Defense Ministry.

“During the day, the Russian aviation group continued conducting pinpoint airstrikes against the infrastructure of the IS group in Syria,” Defense Ministry spokesman, Igor Konashenkov, said.

Neither of those have Russia saying they are bombing ISIL and not Al Qaeda though...?....so....you point was??

You need to get rid of the US media lens you are instructed to put on. Think about it man , think for yourself!

Since when is RT a US media? And when th Russian ministry of defense says they are bombing "infrastructure of the IS group in Syria", it's takes a special kind of mental gymnastics to read that as bombing Al Qaeda instead of ISIS. Of course, Russia tends to conflate ISIS with "terrorists" because it's real targets are the anti-Assad rebels and not ISIS. But just count how many times Putin refers to Islamic State in his UN speech for example, and then tell me that he doesn't want to project an image that Russia and Syria are fighting ISIS.

 

[Jayjay]

Biggest supplier of weapons to ISIL has been Assad himself. He figured that by letting extremists free reign and allowing them to cross border to Iraq would foil American success in Iraq, and also it would give him cover to brand any opposition in Syria as "terrorists".

That's just total bullshit.
Biggest supplier of weapons to ISIS was Iraqi army which got it from US.

ISIS uses captured weapons in Syria also, and it stands to reason that in Syria the majority of the weapons acquired this way are from Syrian sources. So even if we think of "supplying weapons to someone else and then having them being taken by ISIS" is supplyign ISIS, then Assad is still responsible for at least the weapons in Syria. And if you look at how thigns escalated, it was really the Syrian weapons and bases therein that gave ISIS the boost it needed in Iraq to make advances that allowed it to capture American weapons en masse.

 

[barbos]

That's just total bullshit.
Biggest supplier of weapons to ISIS was Iraqi army which got it from US.

ISIS uses captured weapons in Syria also, and it stands to reason that in Syria the majority of the weapons acquired this way are from Syrian sources. So even if we think of "supplying weapons to someone else and then having them being taken by ISIS" is supplyign ISIS, then Assad is still responsible for at least the weapons in Syria. And if you look at how thigns escalated, it was really the Syrian weapons and bases therein that gave ISIS the boost it needed in Iraq to make advances that allowed it to capture American weapons en masse.

At least ISIS have to fight to get these weapons from Syrian Army. US trained Iraqi army just left it to ISIS,not to mention so called US trained FSA simply defected to ISIS along with their weapons.

 

[Will Wiley]

First hit on Google:

Russian jets have performed 14 combats flights, conducting six pinpoint airstrikes against Islamic State targets in Syria on Friday, according to Russia’s Defense Ministry.

“During the day, the Russian aviation group continued conducting pinpoint airstrikes against the infrastructure of the IS group in Syria,” Defense Ministry spokesman, Igor Konashenkov, said.

Neither of those have Russia saying they are bombing ISIL and not Al Qaeda though...?....so....you point was??

You need to get rid of the US media lens you are instructed to put on. Think about it man , think for yourself!

Since when is RT a US media? And when th Russian ministry of defense says they are bombing "infrastructure of the IS group in Syria", it's takes a special kind of mental gymnastics to read that as bombing Al Qaeda instead of ISIS. Of course, Russia tends to conflate ISIS with "terrorists" because it's real targets are the anti-Assad rebels and not ISIS. But just count how many times Putin refers to Islamic State in his UN speech for example, and then tell me that he doesn't want to project an image that Russia and Syria are fighting ISIS.

Where does anyone say they will bomb ISIL but not bomb other terrorist groups?

 

[Bacillus anthracis]

First hit on Google:

Russian jets have performed 14 combats flights, conducting six pinpoint airstrikes against Islamic State targets in Syria on Friday, according to Russia’s Defense Ministry.

“During the day, the Russian aviation group continued conducting pinpoint airstrikes against the infrastructure of the IS group in Syria,” Defense Ministry spokesman, Igor Konashenkov, said.

Neither of those have Russia saying they are bombing ISIL and not Al Qaeda though...?....so....you point was??

You need to get rid of the US media lens you are instructed to put on. Think about it man , think for yourself!

Since when is RT a US media? And when th Russian ministry of defense says they are bombing "infrastructure of the IS group in Syria", it's takes a special kind of mental gymnastics to read that as bombing Al Qaeda instead of ISIS. Of course, Russia tends to conflate ISIS with "terrorists" because it's real targets are the anti-Assad rebels and not ISIS. But just count how many times Putin refers to Islamic State in his UN speech for example, and then tell me that he doesn't want to project an image that Russia and Syria are fighting ISIS.

Where does anyone say they will bomb ISIL but not bomb other terrorist groups?

And this^ is why everyone should be perfectly fine with the U.S. limiting their role in the region and letting Russia increase theirs. Nobody can tell who the hell is bombing who. No one can state with certainty who's supplying who. No one has any realistic strategy for getting the situation under control.

Have at it Russia.