One of the worst verdicts in a civil suit ever

[Derec]

Before I shock you with the verdict that morons from the Baltimore County jury rendered today, let me give you some background on the case.
Korryn Gaines was passionate about beliefs, anticipated violent confrontation with police

In one video the 23-year-old loads a 12-gauge shotgun she called "Big Girl." In another, she voices a warning to a Baltimore County police officer during a traffic stop in March.
"You will have to kill me," she yelled at officers.
On Monday, five months after the traffic incident, police went to Gaines' apartment on Sulky Court to serve her with an arrest warrant for failing to appear in court.
Officers say she pointed a shotgun at them, told them to leave, and threatened to kill them. She remained in the apartment with her 5-year-old son.
[..]
Finally, police say, Gaines told officers, "If you don't leave, I'm going to kill you."
An officer fired first, police say, and Gaines fired back. The officer fired several more times, killing Gaines. Police fire also struck her son on his left cheek.
[..]
Her uncle Jerome Barnett said some family members believed Gaines acquired militant beliefs that were markedly different from the Christian faith in which she had been raised.
Her mother said she did not agree with all of Gaines' beliefs but knew her daughter was passionate about her convictions.
"Her heart was in a good place," Rhanda Dormeus said. "She loved her black people, and she just wanted them to see things for what she felt it really was."
Police say a Baltimore County officer stopped Gaines' car in March because it displayed cardboard signs in place of license plates. One read "Free Traveler." The other read "Any Government official who compromises this pursuit to happiness and right to travel, will be held criminally responsible and fined, as this is a natural right and freedom."
The language is consistent with the anti-government sovereign citizen movement. Sovereign citizens reject courts, laws and law enforcement as illegitimate. The movement originated decades ago among white supremacists, but many adherents now are African-American.

So she was part of the anti-government sovereign citizen movement, and she threatened police with a shotgun when they came to serve a warrant.

Open and shut case? As far as criminal case is concerned, yes.
No charges filed in Korryn Gaines shooting

"Based upon all of the circumstances, it is determined that this shooting was justified and the State will take no further action," Shellenberger wrote.

But despite all the facts, six random people on a jury found in a civil trial that the shooting was unreasonable and, pulling a random number out of their asses, awarded her family $37 million.
Jury awards more than $37M to family of Korryn Gaines in civil case against Baltimore County

Baltimore County jury on Friday awarded more than $37 million in damages in the civil lawsuit brought by the family of Korryn Gaines, the 23-year-old Randallstown woman who was shot and killed by county police after a six-hour standoff in 2016.
[..]
hile Gaines’ family and attorneys expressed relief the jury agreed with them and found the shooting was wrong, some said they were frustrated Ruby is still on the police force. Ruby was promoted last year from the rank of officer to corporal.
“He should be going to jail for what he did,” said Gaines’ fiance, Kareem Courtney, outside the courthouse as he held daughter Karsyn on his hip.

No, Ruby should not be going to jail. He got promoted because he didn't do anything wrong. Luckily his bosses at the police headquarters have far more sense than the six idiot jurors.

I mean, what the fuck? First of all, the verdict should have been in favor of the defendants, as Korryn Gaines' actions led to her death and injury to her son. And second, even if police was 100% at fault, $37 million is a completely ridiculous amount.

I hope the county appeals and prevails. If upheld, this verdicts will send troubling signal - barricade yourself in your apartment, use your child as human shield, force police to shoot you and make your family unbelievably rich.

P.S.: Why were all six of the jurors women? Could that be the reason why the verdict is the way it is - too much emotion about the "mother and child", and not enough regard for the fact that it was Gaines who threatened police and endangered her own kid?
P.P.S.: Isn't it about time to ditch the completely antiquated jury system?

 

[Juma]

Before I shock you with the verdict that morons from the Baltimore County jury rendered today, let me give you some background on the case.
Korryn Gaines was passionate about beliefs, anticipated violent confrontation with police

So she was part of the anti-government sovereign citizen movement, and she threatened police with a shotgun when they came to serve a warrant.

Open and shut case? As far as criminal case is concerned, yes.
No charges filed in Korryn Gaines shooting


But despite all the facts, six random people on a jury found in a civil trial that the shooting was unreasonable and, pulling a random number out of their asses, awarded her family $37 million.
Jury awards more than $37M to family of Korryn Gaines in civil case against Baltimore County

Baltimore County jury on Friday awarded more than $37 million in damages in the civil lawsuit brought by the family of Korryn Gaines, the 23-year-old Randallstown woman who was shot and killed by county police after a six-hour standoff in 2016.
[..]
hile Gaines’ family and attorneys expressed relief the jury agreed with them and found the shooting was wrong, some said they were frustrated Ruby is still on the police force. Ruby was promoted last year from the rank of officer to corporal.
“He should be going to jail for what he did,” said Gaines’ fiance, Kareem Courtney, outside the courthouse as he held daughter Karsyn on his hip.

No, Ruby should not be going to jail. He got promoted because he didn't do anything wrong. Luckily his bosses at the police headquarters have far more sense than the six idiot jurors.

I mean, what the fuck? First of all, the verdict should have been in favor of the defendants, as Korryn Gaines' actions led to her death and injury to her son. And second, even if police was 100% at fault, $37 million is a completely ridiculous amount.

I hope the county appeals and prevails. If upheld, this verdicts will send troubling signal - barricade yourself in your apartment, use your child as human shield, force police to shoot you and make your family unbelievably rich.

P.S.: Why were all six of the jurors women? Could that be the reason why the verdict is the way it is - too much emotion about the "mother and child", and not enough regard for the fact that it was Gaines who threatened police and endangered her own kid?
P.P.S.: Isn't it about time to ditch the completely antiquated jury system?

Ever thought of that you may have not all the facts?
Why was it do important to bring her in at exact that moment that they had to start to shoot?
She was no threat to anybody before.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Derec,

Let's see...you know other posters will comment on your label of women as emotional, so why did you do it? Are you looking for reactions?

Anyway, it really distracts the reader from your lack of argument in the civil suit.

 

[Patooka]

Before I shock you...

You didn't. This is about par for what I expect from your posts. If you started a thread without one of the following 3 parameters:

-black people
-muslims
-women

I would have been shocked. I would have reported such a post to moderators as I am almost convinced such an event could only occur if your profile has been hijacked. As it is, same old, same old.

 

[Derec]

Derec,
Let's see...you know other posters will comment on your label of women as emotional, so why did you do it? Are you looking for reactions?

It is pretty unusual for all six jurors to be one gender. If it was based on pure chance, the likelihood of that jury makeup is about 1.5%, so I do not think it was just chance. I think the plaintiff lawyers sought female jurors and that the county lawyers failed to counteract that.
Men and women are different, on average. It should hardly be controversial that females, and especially mothers, would be emotionally involved with a case with a dead mother and injured child. I would be interested to know how many of these women had kids of their own.

Anyway, it really distracts the reader from your lack of argument in the civil suit.

I have plenty of arguments. Is your feigned outrage over my comment on the all-women jury a distraction from your lack of rebuttals to anything else I wrote?

 

[Derec]

Before I shock you...

You didn't.

What you should be shocked about is the size of the verdict and how brazenly the jury disregarded facts. Also her being black and female should not mean that she should get any different treatment than a white male would get in similar circumstances.

If it was a white male right-wing sovereign citizen who got shot while threatening police with a shotgun there would be no verdict in his favor.
I mean, how many millions did LaVoy Finicum's family get? Should they get $37 million too, in your opinion?

 

[Derec]

Ever thought of that you may have not all the facts?

The case was extensively covered. What facts do you think I am missing?

Why was it do important to bring her in at exact that moment that they had to start to shoot?

The moment she threatened police with a shotgun it became much more serious than a FTA warrant. It was also a 6 hour standoff at the point of shooting. Note that the DA found the shooting to be justified.

She was no threat to anybody before.

The shotgun and her verbal threats determined that to be a lie.

 

[Juma]

The case was extensively covered. What facts do you think I am missing?

The moment she threatened police with a shotgun it became much more serious than a FTA warrant. It was also a 6 hour standoff at the point of shooting. Note that the DA found the shooting to be justified.

She was no threat to anybody before.

The shotgun and her verbal threats show that to be a lie.

Was it? Haviing problems understanding text much? Have you any clue what ”before” means? Anf furthermore: that was caused by the behavior of the police.

 

[Derec]

Was it? Haviing problems understanding text much? Have you any clue what ”before” means?

Before what exactly? The standoff? So what?
And just for your information, she had made threatening statements to police before, although she did not point any weapons at them before the day she got herself killed.

Anf furthermore: that was caused by the behavior of the police.

Yeah, how dare they serve a lawful warrant. Or stop and ticket her for not having a tag. After all, laws should not apply to her for some reason.

 

[Juma]

Was it? Haviing problems understanding text much? Have you any clue what ”before” means?

Before what exactly? The standoff? So what?
And just for your information, she had made threatening statements to police before, although she did not point any weapons at them before the day she got herself killed.

Anf furthermore: that was caused by the behavior of the police.

Yeah, how dare they serve a lawful warrant. Or stop and ticket her for not having a tag. After all, laws should not apply to her for some reason.

They law obviously doesnt apply to the police so why should it apply to her?

There was obviously something wrong with her, a delusion based in facts but still some sort of delusion.
The police should gave left and tried to get someone to talk to here. Social worker or whatever.
There was no reason for escalating the situation and executing her.

 

[Arctish]

The case was extensively covered. What facts do you think I am missing?

The only recordings of the events are from the victim herself, which she posted to facebook as events were unfolding. At the time she made her recordings, there was nothing in her demeanor or statements that justified the use of lethal force.

The police claim she threatened them later. But if the jury believed that the police should have taken steps to de-escalate the situation, had the means to do so at their disposal, and failed to do so, then yeah, the jury is going to fault the police for failing to handle the situation properly. Also, the jury might not believe police claims that she suddenly decided to shoot it out with them, the one of her against the several of them and with her kid in the room.

The moment she threatened police with a shotgun it became much more serious than a FTA warrant. It was also a 6 hour standoff at the point of shooting. Note that the DA found the shooting to be justified.

She was no threat to anybody before.

The shotgun and her verbal threats determined that to be a lie.

 

[untermensche]

Too many guns.

Humans and guns. A bad mix.

But they are legal and marijuana is not.

Welcome to Wonderland.

 

[ruby sparks]

Before what exactly? The standoff? So what?
And just for your information, she had made threatening statements to police before, although she did not point any weapons at them before the day she got herself killed.

Yeah, how dare they serve a lawful warrant. Or stop and ticket her for not having a tag. After all, laws should not apply to her for some reason.

They law obviously doesnt apply to the police so why should it apply to her?

There was obviously something wrong with her, a delusion based in facts but still some sort of delusion.
The police should gave left and tried to get someone to talk to here. Social worker or whatever.
There was no reason for escalating the situation and executing her.

In an ideal or better world, yes.

In the real world, the one in which the incident took place, one can see both sides of the argument.

As to how the situation escalated to gunfire, I don't know.

The whole thing is a tragedy but I would find it hard to blame the police-persons who fired in this instance (unless they broke their own rules). They were faced with someone who had a lethal weapon and was threatening to use it to kill them, or so I read at least. One could blame the system I suppose, the police training and methods, the lack of resorting to other agencies such as Social Workers, yes.

I think the $37M award is a bit ridiculous. I'd be interested to know what exactly it was for. I mean, what the exact culpability component was deemed to be (not the compensation component to the family for loss). Who was faulted and why. If, for example, it was deemed that the fault was with those running the system, who were deemed to, for instance, have an obligation to, for instance, approach these things in a different way (with more use of Social Workers for example) then I would have thought that essentially taking a lot of money away from them (or their insurers) and giving it to an individual family to spend as they like is arguably not a good outcome. If there HAD to be a payout, how about, say, $1M to family (with no personal blame on the officers, unless they broke rules) and $36M to paying more social workers and mental health professionals? Or no payout and everyone agrees that there should be a better system and maybe agrees to pay for it through taxes.

That was just off the top of my head. Not thought through.

 

[untermensche]

Another thread from Archie Bunker.

People that think their opinions on matters like this have significance are like that woman.

And you don't shoot crazy people.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Another thread from Archie Bunker.

This is true but it's an old reference to American culture. We need a German reference that stands the test of time.

 

[Juma]

Before what exactly? The standoff? So what?
And just for your information, she had made threatening statements to police before, although she did not point any weapons at them before the day she got herself killed.

Yeah, how dare they serve a lawful warrant. Or stop and ticket her for not having a tag. After all, laws should not apply to her for some reason.

They law obviously doesnt apply to the police so why should it apply to her?

There was obviously something wrong with her, a delusion based in facts but still some sort of delusion.
The police should gave left and tried to get someone to talk to here. Social worker or whatever.
There was no reason for escalating the situation and executing her.

In an ideal or better world, yes.

In the real world, the one in which the incident took place, one can see both sides of the argument.

As to how the situation escalated to gunfire, I don't know.

The whole thing is a tragedy but I would find it hard to blame the police-persons who fired in this instance (unless they broke their own rules). They were faced with someone who had a lethal weapon and was threatening to use it to kill them, or so I read at least. One could blame the system I suppose, the police training and methods, the lack of resorting to other agencies such as Social Workers, yes.

I think the $37M award is a bit ridiculous. I'd be interested to know what exactly it was for. I mean, what the exact culpability component was deemed to be (not the compensation component to the family for loss). Who was faulted and why. If, for example, it was deemed that the fault was with those running the system, who were deemed to, for instance, have an obligation to, for instance, approach these things in a different way (with more use of Social Workers for example) then I would have thought that essentially taking a lot of money away from them (or their insurers) and giving it to an individual family to spend as they like is arguably not a good outcome. If there HAD to be a payout, how about, say, $1M to family (with no personal blame on the officers, unless they broke rules) and $36M to paying more social workers and mental health professionals? Or no payout and everyone agrees that there should be a better system and maybe agrees to pay for it through taxes.

That was just off the top of my head. Not thought through.

Then think it through before you post next time.

 

[barbos]

Before what exactly? The standoff? So what?
And just for your information, she had made threatening statements to police before, although she did not point any weapons at them before the day she got herself killed.

Yeah, how dare they serve a lawful warrant. Or stop and ticket her for not having a tag. After all, laws should not apply to her for some reason.

They law obviously doesnt apply to the police so why should it apply to her?

There was obviously something wrong with her, a delusion based in facts but still some sort of delusion.
The police should gave left and tried to get someone to talk to here. Social worker or whatever.
There was no reason for escalating the situation and executing her.

In an ideal or better world, yes.

In the real world, the one in which the incident took place, one can see both sides of the argument.

As to how the situation escalated to gunfire, I don't know.

The whole thing is a tragedy but I would find it hard to blame the police-persons who fired in this instance (unless they broke their own rules). They were faced with someone who had a lethal weapon and was threatening to use it to kill them, or so I read at least. One could blame the system I suppose, the police training and methods, the lack of resorting to other agencies such as Social Workers, yes.

I think the $37M award is a bit ridiculous. I'd be interested to know what exactly it was for. I mean, what the exact culpability component was deemed to be (not the compensation component to the family for loss). Who was faulted and why. If, for example, it was deemed that the fault was with those running the system, who were deemed to, for instance, have an obligation to, for instance, approach these things in a different way (with more use of Social Workers for example) then I would have thought that essentially taking a lot of money away from them (or their insurers) and giving it to an individual family to spend as they like is arguably not a good outcome. If there HAD to be a payout, how about, say, $1M to family (with no personal blame on the officers, unless they broke rules) and $36M to paying more social workers and mental health professionals? Or no payout and everyone agrees that there should be a better system and maybe agrees to pay for it through taxes.

That was just off the top of my head. Not thought through.

I agree, $37mil number is ridiculous quite a lot. I smell a rat here, I mean opportunistic (and even fraudulent) lawyers. Who exactly decides the number? a judge? My understanding when it's an unfortunate death like this relatives can expect to get lifetime income of that person, so it's about $1mil usually.

Regardless, the woman was batshit crazy anarchist who wished to get killed by the police. If anyone has to pay her it's the ones who let her buy her gun - NRA. They should be sued for $37mi.

 

[barbos]

The only recordings of the events are from the victim herself, which she posted to facebook as events were unfolding. At the time she made her recordings, there was nothing in her demeanor or statements that justified the use of lethal force.

Not just unfolding. She had been posting before that. It's premeditated suicide by cops if you ask me.

 

[barbos]

The case was extensively covered. What facts do you think I am missing?

The moment she threatened police with a shotgun it became much more serious than a FTA warrant. It was also a 6 hour standoff at the point of shooting. Note that the DA found the shooting to be justified.

She was no threat to anybody before.

The shotgun and her verbal threats show that to be a lie.

Was it? Haviing problems understanding text much? Have you any clue what ”before” means? Anf furthermore: that was caused by the behavior of the police.

How dare the police to stop her car for not having license plate!

 

[ruby sparks]

Then think it through before you post next time.

Why?