One Year Later, Crimeans Prefer Russia

[tupac chopra]

Why on Earth would someone prefer Russia? It is on the edge of being a Third World country with no future other than decline or as a best case scenario stagnation.

Because Crimea has peace. Ukraine where NATO and the US has been involved ended up a war zone.
It's a pretty easy sell isn't it? Don't go with the USA because all they do is create wars. People look throughout the world and say...hmm..that seems right.

As for Russia's decline. it is actually recovering from an awful century, mostly suffering under communism. The US empire though is in decline. It is burdened by an unpayable debt. It has lost a lot of credibilty. Maybe all credibility.
Ukraine is probably going to be looted. It's assets and resources will be sold off. The financial inputs from the west only go to pay banks. Ukrainian people aren't seeing any benefit. Thousands of Ukrainain men have fled the country to avoid conscription.
Russia seems the best choice.

 

[tupac chopra]

Which is why the Novorussians wanted to join Russia as Crimea did. Had Russia allowed this we would not see all the people dying.

I think that part of the reason why Putin destabilized Eastern Ukraine was to turn attention away from Crimea. .

Putin did not destabilise eastern Crimea.
1. A coup happened in Kiev and the democratically elected leader was ousted.
2.Those in the East refused to recognise the junta who took power.
3.The junta attacked the east.

Nothing to do with Putin

 

[tupac chopra]

Are we talking about the people in the majority of Crimea or the ethnic tartars? There's a big difference. I could care less about the Crimean Russian/Ukrainian majority. The question is if the ethnic tartars will be free from government sponsored oppression when the smoke clears. If a people get a mud hole stomped into them because their land is run by one country as opposed to the other, that should be a factor in who you let run the land.

What about the indigenous people in America. How are they doing? Being oppressed much?

 

[crispy]

I think that part of the reason why Putin destabilized Eastern Ukraine was to turn attention away from Crimea. .

Putin did not destabilise eastern Crimea.
1. A coup happened in Kiev and the democratically elected leader was ousted.
2.Those in the East refused to recognise the junta who took power.
3.The junta attacked the east.

Nothing to do with Putin

So whats he doing sending weapons and troops there? Can't we at least agree that its not helping stabilize the area?

 

[barbos]

So whats he doing sending weapons and troops there? Can't we at least agree that its not helping stabilize the area?

Just because propaganda says he is doing all that does not mean he actually is doing all that.

 

[barbos]

Why on Earth would someone prefer Russia? It is on the edge of being a Third World country with no future other than decline or as a best case scenario stagnation.

That description would apply just as well if not more to Ukraine. Only thing Ukraine has going for it compared to Russia is that at least it appears to be moving to right direction in terms of democracy and rooting out corruption, but it still has a long way to go.

LOL, that's pretty funny.

 

[barbos]

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-02-06/one-year-later-crimeans-prefer-russia

Berezovets is inclined to credit Crimea's "Orwellian atmosphere" for some of that near-unanimity. He's probably right. Given the ubiquitous FSB attention and the arrest of some pro-Ukrainian activists -- the persecution of filmmaker Oleg Sentsov is the cause celebre -- as "extremists," few people are likely to be brave enough to condemn the annexation on the phone, especially when the caller is a stranger.

From Wikipedia:

I read the article.

Quarter Yes No Undecided
2009 Q3[37] 70% 14% 16%
2009 Q4[37] 67% 15% 18%
2010 Q1[38] 66% 14% 20%
2010 Q2[38] 65% 12% 23%
2010 Q3[38] 67% 11% 22%
2010 Q4[38] 66% 9% 25%
2011 Q4[39] 65.6% 14.2% 20.2%

Yes, and what is your point exactly?

 

[Jarhyn]

Are we talking about the people in the majority of Crimea or the ethnic tartars? There's a big difference. I could care less about the Crimean Russian/Ukrainian majority. The question is if the ethnic tartars will be free from government sponsored oppression when the smoke clears. If a people get a mud hole stomped into them because their land is run by one country as opposed to the other, that should be a factor in who you let run the land.

What about the indigenous people in America. How are they doing? Being oppressed much?

You-too much? I think that any and every Native American (and every non-native) should be given an offer for free college in any state run college they have the grades for (and a GED education if they don't already have one), the equivalent of a VA home loan, and 50000 dollars 'starter' money to represent an inheritance they never would have had otherwise. It should apply to all living natives as an offer to nationalize them. Native Americans could then go anywhere, do any job, and have equal status. But as it stands, most native Americans are not living in the United states, they live on sovereign tribal lands and self-segregate.

I would support the same for everyone, with the caveat that the 50k comes first from the estate tax pool, and that estate taxes (aka 'death tax') gets stiffened to at least 50% of assets.

The problem remains that Russia has had anti-Tatar problems in the past: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Crimean_Tatars

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And why should we trust this?

Because Crimea is relatively peaceful while Ukraine where America sponsored a coup is in an awful state of chaos. People are dying daily.
It makes sense that people in Crimea are happy they weren't "liberated" like those in Ukraine were "liberated."
Why on earth would you think they would want to be part of Ukraine now that America has spawned a war there?

The Novorussians in east Ukraine don't want to be part of Ukraine. Thousands of young men are leaving Ukraine to avoid being caught up in an American sponsored war. Racists are partially in power and have today declared they will not abide by any ceasefire
Would you want to be part of Ukraine?

Russia doesn't attack those that kowtow to Moscow.

 

[tupac chopra]

Putin did not destabilise eastern Crimea.
1. A coup happened in Kiev and the democratically elected leader was ousted.
2.Those in the East refused to recognise the junta who took power.
3.The junta attacked the east.

Nothing to do with Putin

So whats he doing sending weapons and troops there? Can't we at least agree that its not helping stabilize the area?

If Putin sent troops and weapons in the war would be over in a couple of days.

In Thirst For War, Sen. Inhofe Releases Fake Photos Of Russian Troops In Ukraine

This is simply unbelievable, and further proof that U.S. “leadership” has absolutely no idea what they are doing. Very dangerous. The Daily Caller put it quite well:

Sen. Jim Inhofe (R-Okla.) released photographs Thursday of what he says is confirmed Russian military action against Ukraine. He gave them “exclusively” to the Washington Free Beacon.

Except there’s just one problem — some of the photographs given to WFB from the 80-year-old senator date back to 2008 from the AP and aren’t exclusive at all.

The WFB points out that the photographic evidence could be pivotal in convincing Congress to back legislation that would give military assistance to the Ukranians. They say Inofe worked “independently” from Congress to verify the authenticity of the photographs.

Independently, meaning his office forget to do basic online image searches.

Inhofe, of course, bashes President Obama, saying he’s “slow to recognize” what is happening around the world.

But maybe it’s a certain Oklahoma senator who needs to take a class at the local Apple store.​

You can’t make this stuff up. Further proof to not believe anything the government says, and to not start anymore wars.

 

[crispy]

Berezovets is inclined to credit Crimea's "Orwellian atmosphere" for some of that near-unanimity. He's probably right. Given the ubiquitous FSB attention and the arrest of some pro-Ukrainian activists -- the persecution of filmmaker Oleg Sentsov is the cause celebre -- as "extremists," few people are likely to be brave enough to condemn the annexation on the phone, especially when the caller is a stranger.

From Wikipedia:

I read the article.

Quarter Yes No Undecided
2009 Q3[37] 70% 14% 16%
2009 Q4[37] 67% 15% 18%
2010 Q1[38] 66% 14% 20%
2010 Q2[38] 65% 12% 23%
2010 Q3[38] 67% 11% 22%
2010 Q4[38] 66% 9% 25%
2011 Q4[39] 65.6% 14.2% 20.2%

Yes, and what is your point exactly?

Thats its a stretch to say that Crimea prefers russia.

 

[crispy]

So whats he doing sending weapons and troops there? Can't we at least agree that its not helping stabilize the area?

If Putin sent troops and weapons in the war would be over in a couple of days.

In Thirst For War, Sen. Inhofe Releases Fake Photos Of Russian Troops In Ukraine

This is simply unbelievable, and further proof that U.S. “leadership” has absolutely no idea what they are doing. Very dangerous. The Daily Caller put it quite well:

Sen. Jim Inhofe (R-Okla.) released photographs Thursday of what he says is confirmed Russian military action against Ukraine. He gave them “exclusively” to the Washington Free Beacon.

Except there’s just one problem — some of the photographs given to WFB from the 80-year-old senator date back to 2008 from the AP and aren’t exclusive at all.

The WFB points out that the photographic evidence could be pivotal in convincing Congress to back legislation that would give military assistance to the Ukranians. They say Inofe worked “independently” from Congress to verify the authenticity of the photographs.

Independently, meaning his office forget to do basic online image searches.

Inhofe, of course, bashes President Obama, saying he’s “slow to recognize” what is happening around the world.

But maybe it’s a certain Oklahoma senator who needs to take a class at the local Apple store.​

You can’t make this stuff up. Further proof to not believe anything the government says, and to not start anymore wars.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014–15_Russian_military_intervention_in_Ukraine

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Why on Earth would someone prefer Russia? It is on the edge of being a Third World country with no future other than decline or as a best case scenario stagnation.

Because Crimea has peace. Ukraine where NATO and the US has been involved ended up a war zone.

Was that before or after uniformless Russian troops took over Crimea?

As for Russia's decline. it is actually recovering from an awful century, mostly suffering under communism.

Russia the Cleveland Browns (NFL) of the GeoPolitical world.

The US empire though is in decline. It is burdened by an unpayable debt. It has lost a lot of credibilty. Maybe all credibility.

Not all, but how much did we really have after Vietnam?

Ukraine is probably going to be looted. It's assets and resources will be sold off. The financial inputs from the west only go to pay banks. Ukrainian people aren't seeing any benefit. Thousands of Ukrainain men have fled the country to avoid conscription.
Russia seems the best choice.

Yes, the Russian Mob is much nicer than the Ukranian Mob.

 

[tupac chopra]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014–15_Russian_military_intervention_in_Ukraine

Where is the evidence that Putin sent troops in. What has been "known" or suspected for some time is that volunteers have been going over to help.
This is different from Putin sending troops in. If you'd like to discuss anyone piece of evidence we can do that but there is just too much stuff in the link you posted and much of it is just linking to other false reports in western media

 

[fromderinside]

Because Crimea has peace. Ukraine where NATO and the US has been involved ended up a war zone.

Was that before or after uniformless Russian troops took over Crimea?

As for Russia's decline. it is actually recovering from an awful century, mostly suffering under communism.

Russia the Cleveland Browns (NFL) of the GeoPolitical world.

The US empire though is in decline. It is burdened by an unpayable debt. It has lost a lot of credibilty. Maybe all credibility.

Not all, but how much did we really have after Vietnam?

Ukraine is probably going to be looted. It's assets and resources will be sold off. The financial inputs from the west only go to pay banks. Ukrainian people aren't seeing any benefit. Thousands of Ukrainain men have fled the country to avoid conscription.
Russia seems the best choice.

Yes, the Russian Mob is much nicer than the Ukranian Mob.

How long will Russia keep paying out to retirees and Russian descendants the subsistence checks the began flooding int to Crimea last year? They provide about two times what the Ukraine was providing before the takeover. Take a poll right after Russia begins to renege.

 

[tupac chopra]

Yes, the Russian Mob is much nicer than the Ukranian Mob.

The question here has been why would Crimeans prefer Russia, and I answered and that is even without pointing out the massive historical ties between the two populations.

However it's worth noting that the looting of Russian resouirces happened under Russian governmemenst more friendly to the west, and I'd say having Putin elected and popular is a reaction against that particular corruption in some ways

 

[tupac chopra]

How long will Russia keep paying out to retirees and Russian descendants the subsistence checks the began flooding int to Crimea last year? They provide about two times what the Ukraine was providing before the takeover. .

This is an obvious point too, but there are so many reasons it's hard to mention them all.
One might also ask how long Ukrainians will put up with "austerity"?
At least the Crimean people are for now getting something in their pockets.
The western way is to pay the banks ang give nothing to the people

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Yes, the Russian Mob is much nicer than the Ukranian Mob.

The question here has been why would Crimeans prefer Russia, and I answered and taht is even without pointing out the massive historical ties between the two populations.

So then, why not just have a referendum that wouldn't have involved brown shirts?

However it's worth noting that the looting of Russian resources happened under Russian governments more friendly to the west, and I'd say having Putin elected and popular is a reaction against that particular corruption in some ways

Or that Russians hate change.

 

[tupac chopra]

The question here has been why would Crimeans prefer Russia, and I answered and taht is even without pointing out the massive historical ties between the two populations.

So then, why not just have a referendum that wouldn't have involved brown shirts?

Because of the violence happening in ukraine at the time, and that seemed to be spreading into Crimea.
Russia already had troops in Crimea under the long standing agreement in place. So they secured the place while the referendum happened.

Who in their right mind would have believed an population that was mainly "Russian" would have voted to go with Ukraine after the coup and with the violence spreading?

Russia had up to 25,000 troops in Crimea under the agreement. The Crimeans were never going to go with Ukraine. Those in Crimea were mainly of Russian extraction anyway.

It was a perfect storm for Russia. With what was happening in Ukraine they pretty much had to secure the place to have a referendum, and they made the most of the opportunity.
They were never going to let Crimea fall to Nato. Never.

It was like Syria. As soon as John Kerry made that gaff, Putin pounced.
Putin's timing was very good, and he seems to know when to act and when not to

 

[crispy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014–15_Russian_military_intervention_in_Ukraine

Where is the evidence that Putin sent troops in. What has been "known" or suspected for some time is that volunteers have been going over to help.
This is different from Putin sending troops in. If you'd like to discuss anyone piece of evidence we can do that but there is just too much stuff in the link you posted and much of it is just linking to other false reports in western media

I don't really want to waste my time arguing with you about the facts. You have no trouble believing, on shaty evidence, that the CIA orchestrated the revolution, but flat out reject ANY involvement in ukraine of the russian military. What is you game, why is it you MUST defend russia in this matter, even to the point of rejecting simple facts?