One Year Later, Crimeans Prefer Russia

[barbos]

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-02-06/one-year-later-crimeans-prefer-russia

Ukrainian political scientist Taras Berezovets, a Crimea native, recently started an initiative he called Free Crimea, aided by the Canada Fund for Local Initiatives and aimed at building Ukrainian soft power on the peninsula. He started by commissioning a poll of Crimean residents from the Ukrainian branch of Germany's biggest market research organization, GfK. The poll results were something of a cold shower to Berezovets.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And why should we trust this?

 

[Underseer]

And why should we trust this?

We shouldn't. Bloomberg is center-right instead of extreme right like FOX News and other Fair And Balanced^TM sources.

 

[barbos]

And why should we trust this?

How convenient.

 

[tupac chopra]

And why should we trust this?

Because Crimea is relatively peaceful while Ukraine where America sponsored a coup is in an awful state of chaos. People are dying daily.
It makes sense that people in Crimea are happy they weren't "liberated" like those in Ukraine were "liberated."
Why on earth would you think they would want to be part of Ukraine now that America has spawned a war there?

The Novorussians in east Ukraine don't want to be part of Ukraine. Thousands of young men are leaving Ukraine to avoid being caught up in an American sponsored war. Racists are partially in power and have today declared they will not abide by any ceasefire
Would you want to be part of Ukraine?

 

[Jayjay]

And why should we trust this?

Because Crimea is relatively peaceful while Ukraine where America sponsored a coup is in an awful state of chaos. People are dying daily.
It makes sense that people in Crimea are happy they weren't "liberated" like those in Ukraine were "liberated."
Why on earth would you think they would want to be part of Ukraine now that America has spawned a war there?

The Novorussians in east Ukraine don't want to be part of Ukraine. Thousands of young men are leaving Ukraine to avoid being caught up in an American sponsored war. Racists are partially in power and have today declared they will not abide by any ceasefire
Would you want to be part of Ukraine?

Compared to "Novorussia", even Ukraine looks attractive.

 

[tupac chopra]

Compared to "Novorussia", even Ukraine looks attractive.

Which is why the Novorussians wanted to join Russia as Crimea did. Had Russia allowed this we would not see all the people dying.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So is this happy as in happy happy or North Korea, we love our Dear Leader happy?

 

[barbos]

So is this happy as in happy happy or North Korea, we love our Dear Leader happy?

Funny you mentioned it. I recently read an article about NK, apparently western media depicter of that country is at the very least a ridiculous overexaggeration. NK became a topic where where western media has no obligation not to lie or distort the facts. There is nobody who is going to call you if you lie.
Same thing is happening with this Ukraine, Russia business.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And why should we trust this?

We shouldn't. Bloomberg is center-right instead of extreme right like FOX News and other Fair And Balanced^TM sources.

I'm not talking about Bloomberg but a pollster with an obvious interest in one side.

 

[barbos]

We shouldn't. Bloomberg is center-right instead of extreme right like FOX News and other Fair And Balanced^TM sources.

I'm not talking about Bloomberg but a pollster with an obvious interest in one side.

So you are accusing top German polling firm and openly pro-ukrainian ukrainians in colluding with Putin?
Are you fucking insane?

 

[Jarhyn]

Are we talking about the people in the majority of Crimea or the ethnic tartars? There's a big difference. I could care less about the Crimean Russian/Ukrainian majority. The question is if the ethnic tartars will be free from government sponsored oppression when the smoke clears. If a people get a mud hole stomped into them because their land is run by one country as opposed to the other, that should be a factor in who you let run the land.

 

[Frikki]

Why on Earth would someone prefer Russia? It is on the edge of being a Third World country with no future other than decline or as a best case scenario stagnation.

 

[barbos]

Are we talking about the people in the majority of Crimea or the ethnic tartars? There's a big difference. I could care less about the Crimean Russian/Ukrainian majority. The question is if the ethnic tartars will be free from government sponsored oppression when the smoke clears. If a people get a mud hole stomped into them because their land is run by one country as opposed to the other, that should be a factor in who you let run the land.

Nice goalpost moving. It's not about crimeans anymore, it's now about minorities. Well, that specific study was conducted in big cities so tatars are clearly underrepresented but I can assure you, despite what western propaganda says, majority of tatars are pro-russian.
And if you are so worried about minorities then russians in Ukraine are minority too.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Why on Earth would someone prefer Russia? It is on the edge of being a Third World country with no future other than decline or as a best case scenario stagnation.

Remember that Russians are relentlessly being fed propaganda about how awesome Russia is and how vile the west is.

It's a theme in all failed and fallen empires. The half a century or so of decline is charecterised by extreme chauvinism and a fetishization of anything that sets them apart from "the other". Back in the day Ukraine may have been opressed and under the thumb of Russia. But they were also part of something great and powerful. Yes, it's an idiotic line of reasoning. But people are fucking dumb ass. I'm not surprised. I think they'll soon change their minds.

 

[barbos]

Why on Earth would someone prefer Russia? It is on the edge of being a Third World country with no future other than decline or as a best case scenario stagnation.

Remember that Russians are relentlessly being fed propaganda about how awesome Russia is and how vile the west is.

It's a theme in all failed and fallen empires. The half a century or so of decline is charecterised by extreme chauvinism and a fetishization of anything that sets them apart from "the other". Back in the day Ukraine may have been opressed and under the thumb of Russia. But they were also part of something great and powerful. Yes, it's an idiotic line of reasoning. But people are fucking dumb ass. I'm not surprised. I think they'll soon change their minds.

It was not West versus Russia for crimeans. It was Ukraine versus Russia. The answer is pretty clear.
Had it been Russia versus West then they (and let be honest here majority of the russians) would probably choose West.

 

[Jayjay]

Compared to "Novorussia", even Ukraine looks attractive.

Which is why the Novorussians wanted to join Russia as Crimea did. Had Russia allowed this we would not see all the people dying.

I think that part of the reason why Putin destabilized Eastern Ukraine was to turn attention away from Crimea. If there was no fighting in Luhansk and Donetsk, Ukrainian army might be shelling Crimea instead. Based on what happened to Georgia, I doubt Russia has any intention of normalizing the region.

 

[Jayjay]

Why on Earth would someone prefer Russia? It is on the edge of being a Third World country with no future other than decline or as a best case scenario stagnation.

That description would apply just as well if not more to Ukraine. Only thing Ukraine has going for it compared to Russia is that at least it appears to be moving to right direction in terms of democracy and rooting out corruption, but it still has a long way to go.

 

[Frikki]

Why on Earth would someone prefer Russia? It is on the edge of being a Third World country with no future other than decline or as a best case scenario stagnation.

That description would apply just as well if not more to Ukraine. Only thing Ukraine has going for it compared to Russia is that at least it appears to be moving to right direction in terms of democracy and rooting out corruption, but it still has a long way to go.

Well Ukraine is learning towards the EU so they have that going for them.

 

[crispy]

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-02-06/one-year-later-crimeans-prefer-russia

Ukrainian political scientist Taras Berezovets, a Crimea native, recently started an initiative he called Free Crimea, aided by the Canada Fund for Local Initiatives and aimed at building Ukrainian soft power on the peninsula. He started by commissioning a poll of Crimean residents from the Ukrainian branch of Germany's biggest market research organization, GfK. The poll results were something of a cold shower to Berezovets.

Berezovets is inclined to credit Crimea's "Orwellian atmosphere" for some of that near-unanimity. He's probably right. Given the ubiquitous FSB attention and the arrest of some pro-Ukrainian activists -- the persecution of filmmaker Oleg Sentsov is the cause celebre -- as "extremists," few people are likely to be brave enough to condemn the annexation on the phone, especially when the caller is a stranger.

From Wikipedia:

Quarter Yes No Undecided
2009 Q3[37] 70% 14% 16%
2009 Q4[37] 67% 15% 18%
2010 Q1[38] 66% 14% 20%
2010 Q2[38] 65% 12% 23%
2010 Q3[38] 67% 11% 22%
2010 Q4[38] 66% 9% 25%
2011 Q4[39] 65.6% 14.2% 20.2%