ORANGE MAN BAD

[zorq]

How can we convince people to vote for new taxes and more government dependency if the Trump economy keeps doing this shit?

Government dependency is only a bad thing if you think the government is unreliable. Of course, the government is quite a bit more reliable than almost any other institution you can think of... unless you start trying to destabilize it like the Republicans are doing. Greasing the economy for more economic crashes is (believe it or not) a BAD thing.

So yes.... ORANGE MAN BAD!

 

[DrZoidberg]

Today's economic policy takes 30-50 years before it pays off. Sweden's current strong economy is because of policies in the 1990'ies.

Anybody who thinks that Trump is responsible for the current US economy is a moron, so to convince them tell them they'll get bigger tits or cocks if they vote democrat. They might fall for it.

It is possible for the government to implement a short-term stimulus which will have an effect on the real economy (within the time frame of a year or two). Tax cuts combined with increased government spending are stimulative, which will tend to push unemployment down and real wages up. If the economy is already at or near full capacity it will also tend to stoke higher inflation down the road (and potentially reverse some of the wage gains).

You're confusing variation in econometrics with actual growth. It's the same kind of logic that sees a tremendous rise in wealth following a disaster or war. GNP isn't the economy. If you lose site of context and what is being measured and why, you will draw faulty conclusions. The point of short term stimulus is to keep the economy from collapsing following a short term recession. But it's still best to avoid when possible. Trump is using stimulus methods in a boom market. That's economic suicide. Overall, the economy does the best when we leave it alone and the government focuses on providing stability.

You are correct, however, that the supply side effects of deregulation and tax cuts will not really impact the economy for many years. It is possible that such policies increase business optimism, which may have a short term positive economic effect on business investment and hiring, but the link is not well understood.

I've a hard time seeing how Trump can deliver optimism. He's erratic and fickle. He seems to lack a plan and direction he wants to go. He's just chaos and confusion.

After a recession and the economy bounces back we always have optimism. That's what's happening now. I think it's happening despite of Trump. Not because of him. I think Trump will turn out to be a disaster long term. Just like Reagan was. They're similar.

 

[Mumbles]

How can we convince people to vote for new taxes and more government dependency if the Trump economy keeps doing this shit?

Government dependency is only a bad thing if you think the government is unreliable. Of course, the government is quite a bit more reliable than almost any other institution you can think of... unless you start trying to destabilize it like the Republicans are doing. Greasing the economy for more economic crashes is (believe it or not) a BAD thing.

So yes.... ORANGE MAN BAD!

"Government dependence" is a silly thing to object to in any event, given that the US government's intervention directly created the white middle class.

Wage growth is good, and may be a sign that employers are finally seeing enough scarcity in the job market that they have no option but to increase pay. Still, seems to me this isn't an ideal place to finally start seeing pay increases. I'll leave it to economists to take some time to look the numbers over - I'm certainly not taking an initial swing from a WSJ writer as gospel.

Meanwhile, Trump is still a terrible president, sorry. Pollution still kills people, spiking health care costs can easily eat any pay increases, tariffs will still increase prices of many goods, cozying up to dictators still sets terrible international precedent, and leading shrieking white supremacist hate rallies still emboldens white nationalists, wannabe Nazis, and the like.

Also, thoughtlessly posting memes does not show that you're the one who can think for yourself.

 

[Horatio Parker]

The Fed reacts to inflation, not the demands from populists whose stupid policies destroy the economy. Have you seen Argentina's economy? It is essentially Trump's populist ideas taken to the full extent. It is shit. Their inflation rate is now over 100% and their economy has been in long term stagnation.

I think the Fed is reacting to so called full employment, not inflation. Inflation is low.

The expectation is that full employment will cause wages to rise, which will cause inflation. But real wages, contrary to corporate media reports, are not rising.

Argentina borrowed in foreign currencies. We don't do that, even if Trump acts pro cyclically.

Anway, Trump is just setting Powell up to be the fall guy in the event of bad economic news.

 

[ideologyhunter]

Orange man 7 years old in the head.

 

[Elixir]

Much of this good economy comes from effort of Barak Obama,

Oh, what the actual fuck. You'd gotta believe that we'd would have had this same roaring economy if Hillary Clinton was president.

It sure as shit would be, if she had been elected, then had dumped $1.5trillion of debt money into the economy. Even more so, if that money had gone to consumers instead of to billionaires. Take that away, and Trump's "performance" compared to Obama's would look anemic.
Did you know that in the last 21 months of Obama's "failed economy", about a half million more jobs were added than in the first 21 months of Trump's artificially propped up economy? And that, without borrowing $1,500,000,000,000.00
Methinks you might be drunk on the Kool-Aid.

 

[ronburgundy]

As an example, Obama lead the effort to save Chrysler and GMC when they were in deep and serious trouble. The GOP was demanding we just let them go under. But as the CEO of Ford stated, that would have destroyed the numerous suppliers that relied on Chrysler and GMC and taken down Ford as well. Millions of jobs were at stake and years of economic disruption.

Obama engineered the necessary bailouts, TARP, that the GOP didn't want, but that in the end, saved us from a far deeper recession or even depression that would have occurred had not strong action been taken.

Many of the US's best economists give Obama full credit for getting the US out of the Bush/GOP crater we were in when he took office. While even before Obama was sworn in, GOP Congressional leaders were meeting to agree to obstruct Obama at every turn. Despite that Obama successfully pulled the fat out of the fire.

That we are in the good position we are in today his nothing to do with Trump, the GOP and everything to do with Obama and his ability to get things done despite the rank GOP obstructionism he faced his entire 8 years.

Can't you just be happy that people are enjoying the booming economy and wage growth that Obama and big government couldn't provide them?

Obama did provide it to them, as has been shown to you many times. The rise in wages began in 2010, about 18 months after Obama inherited Bush's economy that was sliding us into a Great Depression. In fact, increases in "average" wages are not meaningful because they are unduly influenced by the fact that the very rich have seen much higher rates of wage increase than anyone else. Increase in median wages are what matter. Under Obama, median wage growth went from 1.6% in January 2009 up to a high of 3.9% in October 2016. Trump's election immediately reversed that steady 6 year increase, dropping to 2.9% after Trumps first year (Feb 2018), then slowly climbing back to 3.5% as of September, but still below the level it reached just prior to Trump's election.

The only thing your OP highlights is that many and sadly most voters are so dangerously stupid of basic facts and economics that will fall for the dishonest propaganda trying to give Trump credit for wage improvements that have been underway for 9 years and if anything the rate of increase in those improvements have slowed under Trump.

 

[RVonse]

The populist economic playbook should be as much in the dustbin of history as communism.

Wrong. The globalist economic playbook should and will be moved to the dustbin of history. Trump will come and go but the radical and spectacular failure of globalism will be replaced throughout the world! Globalism did not work and the people of Europe and the US are now in active revolt of it.

The standard playbook is to increase tariffs, increase government spending, and easy money, and high government debt which destroys the economy through high inflation.

Trump's standard playbook is to fulfill his campaign promises! Yes, that is something highly unusual for the standard politician. You can argue whether his promises are good or not but he is staying true to his platform that the public wanted.

The Fed reacts to inflation, not the demands from populists whose stupid policies destroy the economy.

Wrong. The fed is reacting to full employment and NOT inflation. There is actually more inflation then they are telling us, but that inflation would have to have been caused by monitory stimulus of the fed during Obama's term. Your tariffs are not even in place yet nor will they be.

This is a situation where the population's mistrust of "elites" is not only misguided, but dangerous.

Wrong again! Holy crap Axulus you are really off the grid now. This is a situation where the people elected political policy that favored the middle class. And that is what representative government is supposed to be all about.

If anything, the fed represents a MANAGED economic system. A system where the economy is managed from the top down by the fed. That sounds a lot more like communism to me than free market capitalism in a representative republic!

- - - Updated - - -

The Fed reacts to inflation, not the demands from populists whose stupid policies destroy the economy. Have you seen Argentina's economy? It is essentially Trump's populist ideas taken to the full extent. It is shit. Their inflation rate is now over 100% and their economy has been in long term stagnation.

I think the Fed is reacting to so called full employment, not inflation. Inflation is low.

The expectation is that full employment will cause wages to rise, which will cause inflation. But real wages, contrary to corporate media reports, are not rising.

Argentina borrowed in foreign currencies. We don't do that, even if Trump acts pro cyclically.

Anway, Trump is just setting Powell up to be the fall guy in the event of bad economic news.

Totally agree.

 

[laughing dog]

Wrong. The fed is reacting to full employment and NOT inflation. There is actually more inflation then they are telling us, but that inflation would have to have been caused by monitory stimulus of the fed during Obama's term. Your tariffs are not even in place yet nor will they be.

The Fed is reacting to prospect of acceleration of inflation in the future based on full employment and other factors. The Fed has to anticipate inflation because monetary policy takes time to affect the economy (it is called the policy lag).

As to inflation, the US inflation rate in 2017 was 2.1% (the highest in the 3 years up to that point).

 

[Elixir]

...the US inflation rate in 2017 was 2.1% (the highest in the 3 years up to that point).

That eats up somewhere between 75 and 150% of the average $13/wk tax break ... no wonder Cheato doesn't talk about that very much these days.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The Fed reacts to inflation, not the demands from populists whose stupid policies destroy the economy. Have you seen Argentina's economy? It is essentially Trump's populist ideas taken to the full extent. It is shit. Their inflation rate is now over 100% and their economy has been in long term stagnation.

I think the Fed is reacting to so called full employment, not inflation. Inflation is low.

The expectation is that full employment will cause wages to rise, which will cause inflation. But real wages, contrary to corporate media reports, are not rising.

Argentina borrowed in foreign currencies. We don't do that, even if Trump acts pro cyclically.

Anway, Trump is just setting Powell up to be the fall guy in the event of bad economic news.

Partially, but inflation is rising.

 

[Horatio Parker]

The Fed reacts to inflation, not the demands from populists whose stupid policies destroy the economy. Have you seen Argentina's economy? It is essentially Trump's populist ideas taken to the full extent. It is shit. Their inflation rate is now over 100% and their economy has been in long term stagnation.

I think the Fed is reacting to so called full employment, not inflation. Inflation is low.

The expectation is that full employment will cause wages to rise, which will cause inflation. But real wages, contrary to corporate media reports, are not rising.

Argentina borrowed in foreign currencies. We don't do that, even if Trump acts pro cyclically.

Anway, Trump is just setting Powell up to be the fall guy in the event of bad economic news.

Partially, but inflation is rising.

Source? Sept was 2.3%, down from August. Projections of 1.9% for 2018 and 2.0% for 2019.

Where's the rise?

 

[Elixir]

Partially, but inflation is rising.

Source? Sept was 2.3%, down from August. Projections of 1.9% for 2018 and 2.0% for 2019.

Where's the rise?

Some of the "rise" is hidden in the tax giveaway. For the average earner, 2.3% inflation wipes out their gift.

 

[untermensche]

When GW sold out future Americans by lowering taxes and raising government spending there was a bubble too.

The premise of this thread is that the moron Donald Trump has one clue what to do about an economy.

He knows how to loot from the government, pay off friends, and pass the bill to future Americans.

He is total scum. The crash will follow this bubble produced by borrowing and passing on the bill.

And those that are deceived by him are total suckers.

 

[Horatio Parker]

Partially, but inflation is rising.

Source? Sept was 2.3%, down from August. Projections of 1.9% for 2018 and 2.0% for 2019.

Where's the rise?

Some of the "rise" is hidden in the tax giveaway. For the average earner, 2.3% inflation wipes out their gift.

The rise referred to is rise in inflation.