Pantheism Theosophy Rosicrucians Unitarians

[steve_bank]

Alternatives to the usual religions. People always seem to need some mystical occult supernatural beliefs however it is structured. I believe these are currently in existence. In the 80s there was a Rosicurcian house in my neighborhood. Plus all the other things like Church Of Satan and other small occult groups.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheism

"Pantheism is the belief that reality is identical with divinity,[1] or that all-things compose an all-encompassing, immanent god[2]. Pantheist belief does not recognize a distinct personal anthropomorphic god[3] and instead characterize a broad range of doctrines differing in forms of relationships between reality and divinity.[4]

Pantheism was popularized in Western culture as a theology and philosophy based on the work of the 17th-century philosopher Baruch Spinoza,[5].7 particularly his book Ethics, published in 1677.[6] The term "pantheism" was coined by mathematician Joseph Raphson in 1697[7][8] and has since been used to describe the beliefs of a variety of people and organizations.

Pantheistic concepts date back thousands of years, and pantheistic elements have been identified in various religious traditions....

There are a variety of definitions of pantheism. Some consider it a theological and philosophical position concerning God.[5].8

Pantheism is the view that everything is part of an all-encompassing, immanent God.[9] All forms of reality may then be considered either modes of that Being, or identical with it.[10] Some hold that pantheism is a non-religious philosophical position. To them, pantheism is the view that the Universe (in the sense of the totality of all existence) and God are identical (implying a denial of the personality and transcendence of God).[ "

Sounds like mysticism and religion by another name.

 

[steve_bank]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theosophy_(Blavatskian)

Theosophy is an esoteric religious movement established in the United States during the late nineteenth century. It was founded largely by the Russian émigré Helena Blavatsky and draws its beliefs predominantly from Blavatsky's writings. Categorised by scholars of religion as part of the occultist current of Western esotericism, it draws upon both older European philosophies like Neoplatonism and Asian religions like Hinduism and Buddhism.

As taught by Blavatsky, Theosophy holds that there is an ancient and secretive brotherhood of spiritual adepts known as Ascended Masters, who — although found across the world — are centred in Tibet. These Masters are believed to have cultivated great wisdom and supernatural powers, and Theosophists believe that it was they who initiated the modern Theosophical movement through disseminating their teachings via Blavatsky. They believe that these Masters are attempting to revive knowledge of an ancient religion once found across the world and which will again come to eclipse the existing world religions. Theosophical groups nevertheless do not refer to their system as a "religion". Theosophy preaches the existence of a single, divine Absolut

 

[steve_bank]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosicrucianism


Rosicrucianism is a spiritual and cultural movement which arose in Europe in the early 17th century after the publication of several texts which purported to announce the existence of a hitherto unknown esoteric order to the world and made seeking its knowledge attractive to many.[1][2] The mysterious doctrine of the order is allegedly "built on esoteric truths of the ancient past", which "concealed from the average man, provide insight into nature, the physical universe, and the spiritual realm."[3] The manifestos do not elaborate extensively on the matter, but clearly combine references to Kabbalah, Hermeticism, alchemy, and mystical Christianity.[4]

The Rosicrucian manifestos heralded a "universal reformation of mankind", through a science allegedly kept secret for decades until the intellectual climate might receive it. Controversies have arisen on whether they were a hoax, whether the "Order of the Rosy Cross" existed as described in the manifestos, or whether the whole thing was a metaphor disguising a movement that really existed, but in a different form.

 

[steve_bank]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian_Universalism


Unitarian Universalism was formed from the consolidation in 1961 of two historically separate Christian denominations, the Universalist Church of America and the American Unitarian Association,[10] both based in the United States; the new organization formed in this merger was the Unitarian Universalist Association.[13] At the time of the North American consolidation, Unitarians and Universalists had expanded beyond their roots in liberal Christian theology. Today they draw from a variety of religious traditions. Individuals may or may not self-identify as Christians or subscribe to Christian beliefs...

 

[braces_for_impact]

Here in Clearwater Fl we have these guys, a well as the Scientologists of course. I find the former far more interesting, and they live very close to me. Fortunately not so close that I am bothered by their presence.

 

[Tharmas]

Alternatives to the usual religions. People always seem to need some mystical occult supernatural beliefs however it is structured. I believe these are currently in existence. In the 80s there was a Rosicurcian house in my neighborhood. Plus all the other things like Church Of Satan and other small occult groups.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheism

"Pantheism is the belief that reality is identical with divinity,[1] or that all-things compose an all-encompassing, immanent god[2]. Pantheist belief does not recognize a distinct personal anthropomorphic god[3] and instead characterize a broad range of doctrines differing in forms of relationships between reality and divinity.[4]

Pantheism was popularized in Western culture as a theology and philosophy based on the work of the 17th-century philosopher Baruch Spinoza,[5].7 particularly his book Ethics, published in 1677.[6] The term "pantheism" was coined by mathematician Joseph Raphson in 1697[7][8] and has since been used to describe the beliefs of a variety of people and organizations.

Pantheistic concepts date back thousands of years, and pantheistic elements have been identified in various religious traditions....

There are a variety of definitions of pantheism. Some consider it a theological and philosophical position concerning God.[5].8

Pantheism is the view that everything is part of an all-encompassing, immanent God.[9] All forms of reality may then be considered either modes of that Being, or identical with it.[10] Some hold that pantheism is a non-religious philosophical position. To them, pantheism is the view that the Universe (in the sense of the totality of all existence) and God are identical (implying a denial of the personality and transcendence of God).[ "

Sounds like mysticism and religion by another name.

As a pantheist, I am somewhat taken aback by your conclusions here. I have never had a mystical experience, nor do I seek one. I consider myself a rationalist. I belong to no religious organization, follow no spiritual dogma, nor practice any liturgy. I accept, to use the quote from Wikipedia that you provide, a “non-religious philosophy.” How you get from there to “mysticism and religion by another name” I have no idea. Perhaps you can elaborate. ]

 

[steve_bank]

The text on pantheis is from wiki.

My conclusion is humans have a need, or seem to, to seek a mystical reality of one kind or another. Maybe it is as simple as escapism. The Free Masons have elaborate rituals and secret handshakes ging baxk in history.

It would appear to identify as pantheist without qualification has no direct mening. Pantheism can be a lot of things. Same as Christianity. Agnostics.

Contrast to Buhdism which has at its core an explicit set of rules for behavior and morality. Right action, right speech, right livlihhod, no intoxicants and so on. Conservative Jews.

What priciples from Pantheism do you use to guide your daily life and interaction with people, or is it just a cosmological mysticism?

Christians would cite the Ten Commandments and the Golden Rule. A true Buhdist would reject killing animals.

 

[Jobar]

The compatibility of pantheism to atheism and theism: Jobar vs. BWE vs. Politesse

Back in 2010 at the Secular Cafe, I took part in a 3-way debate concerning pantheism. I've read a great deal on the subject, and written a lot too. My favorite philosopher is Alan Watts; I've read all his books, and seen many (but by no means all) of the YT videos that have been put to his recorded lectures.

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwDNXgrNECw[/YOUTUBE]

 

[steve_bank]

If you have a faith of any kind that improves your life, doesn't intrude on or hurt others...then good for you.

The question I always ask someone is not why they believe, it is how it improves their lives and how they relate to others in daily life. In the end that is all that matters be it religion, philosophy, or anything else.

The debates with Christians are of value because I have to deal with it in daily life.

Alan Watts, there is a blast from the past. He was popular among the psychedelic crowd. Another was Ram Das, aka Richard Albert. One of many taking on Indian culture and philosophy. In the 60s-70s there was a bunch of them. The Bagwan cult in Oregon. The Divine Light Mission.

They were all mixtures. I look at it all as syncretism.

"Syncretism (/ˈsɪŋkrətɪzəm/) is the combining of different beliefs, while blending practices of various schools of thought. Syncretism involves the merging or assimilation of several originally discrete traditions, especially in the theology and mythology of religion, thus asserting an underlying unity and allowing for an inclusive approach to other faiths. Syncretism also occurs commonly in expressions of arts and culture (known as eclecticism) as well as politics (syncretic politics)."

I wandered through a bunch of stuff. Way back I spent a month getting up early to do yoga at a Kundalini ashram in the neighborhood. 3HO, American Sikh converts. Men took on Indian names, grew beards, and wore turbans.

I am sorry, but the Watts video is standard New Age Mysticism. Mixing science and the mystical with a soundtrack. Deepak Chopra is a contemporary practitioner. His videos appear on PBS.

 

[Underseer]

Wait a minute.

I thought pantheists reject supernatural claims.

 

[southernhybrid]

I have known many atheists that were also Unitarians. Atheists are welcome into UU fellowships, probably because UUs are more interested in doing charity work, supporting social justice, and getting together on holidays to celebrate and eat together. I would seriously consider becoming a UU if there was a congregation near me, not for the religious aspect, but for the community and volunteer opportunities. You can be anything you want to become a UU, as long as it's a very liberal branch of religion, or you can simply be an atheist. I think that the need for community and the identification with a group are important reasons why so many people are attracted to religion.

But, it's also true that humans are drawn to mythology. If you've never read "The Power of Myth" by Joseph Campbell, I suggest that you do. Or, you can take the lazier way out and watch the DVD series, if it's still available. I really enjoyed watching it.

 

[Tharmas]

My conclusion is humans have a need, or seem to, to seek a mystical reality of one kind or another.

Do you mean some humans? I would agree. Do you mean most humans? I would be far less sure. I believe most humans don’t think much about reality, much less mysticism. Or do you mean all humans? I would definitely disagree.

It would appear to identify as pantheist without qualification has no direct mening. Pantheism can be a lot of things. Same as Christianity. Agnostics.

I would agree that there are several varieties of pantheism. I wouldn’t compare it to the dozens and dozens of Christian sects, though. There are more different Christian churches just in my neighborhood than there are varieties of pantheism.

Contrast to Buhdism which has at its core an explicit set of rules for behavior and morality. Right action, right speech, right livlihhod, no intoxicants and so on.

But there are many types of Buddhism too.

What priciples from Pantheism do you use to guide your daily life and interaction with people, or is it just a cosmological mysticism?

“Mysticism” again. You still haven’t defined what you mean.

I don’t know that any “principles of pantheism,” whatever that may mean, guide my daily life. I suppose I have a sense of awe, and I have a strong sense of the value of human life, realizing how insignificant we seem in the grander scheme of things. But your alternative, that it’s just a “cosmological mysticism,” presents a false dichotomy. Why should a belief EITHER provide principles for daily life OR be dismissed as cosmological mysticism?

Christians would cite the Ten Commandments and the Golden Rule. A true Buhdist would reject killing animals.

Hey, I believe in the Golden Rule! I hope that doesn’t make me a Christian. As for Buddhists, well, Buddhists in Myanmar are engaged in a nasty sort of ethnic cleansing right now. Nobody’s perfect.

Oh wait, you said TRUE Buddhist. My mistake. I assumed that people who had called themselves Buddhist for generations, erected Buddhist temples, and claimed they wanted to protect Buddhism could be considered to be, well, Buddhists. I wonder if the True Buddhist puts sugar in his porridge.

 

[Jobar]

Wait a minute.

I thought pantheists reject supernatural claims.

Some do; me, for one. But I wouldn't want to claim that for all pantheists.

 

[Jobar]

Alan Watts, there is a blast from the past. He was popular among the psychedelic crowd. Another was Ram Das, aka Richard Albert. One of many taking on Indian culture and philosophy.

Watts was more into Zen Buddhism and Taoism, though he was also an ordained Episcopal minister for years. His drug of choice was alcohol, actually, not any of the psychedelics; though he did try them out.

 

[steve_bank]

All humans. A sense of the divine as it is sometimes put.

Sagan and his 'billions and billions of stars'. Religiousnexperince, scientifiv wonder, experiance the wide open spaces are all the same thing. The problem with relgion and mystical traditions is they sell the idea that their experinmce is unique.The occult and mystical was in movies from the start. Magnum PI had a vague supernatural element, precognition and senseing others in danger.

 

[steve_bank]

Alan Watts, there is a blast from the past. He was popular among the psychedelic crowd. Another was Ram Das, aka Richard Albert. One of many taking on Indian culture and philosophy.

Watts was more into Zen Buddhism and Taoism, though he was also an ordained Episcopal minister for years. His drug of choice was alcohol, actually, not any of the psychedelics; though he did try them out.

I do not know what into Zen means, like being into the Gretaful Dead? Saw them around 1972.

In the 60s 70s the word Zen was everywhere. A number of books prefaced by Zen in the title. I look at the video you linked as theater and performance art. You watch and get an experience, no different than a concert, art gallery, or play.

Joseph Cambel said in the 50s-70s China was closed, that left India as the place for spiritual exploration. People came back with long hair and a Hindu name, no exageration. The American Hare Krisnas and others. People felt they got something from Asian traditions they did not get from western traditions, a great many. The demand led to an influx of Indian mystics like the Maharishi and TM, and they made a lot of money.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajneesh

I was in Portnad Or in the time of the Rajnesse. He bought a ranch fleeing India for tax evasion. Eventually he got booted out and prosecuted. His followers on the ranch were mostly European. They walked around Portland dressed in red with a picture of the guru.

The man liked to flaunt his fleet of cars. In an election his followers maanged to take over Antelope Oregon in an election. His number two snuck ofh the ranch and poisened a local beffet restaurant because locals did not like him.Another was The Divine Light Mission, anotyer Indian guru trasplant. And of course The Moonies from South Korea.

It reduces to simple free market economics. People have a need and will will pay for it.

There was a comedy group Firesign Theater. One ne of their lines went 'give them a light and they will follow it anywhere'.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

There's a seeker born every minute.
- Firesign Theater

 

[steve_bank]

There's a seeker born every minute.
- Firesign Theater

Uh oooo

 

[Underseer]

Wait a minute.

I thought pantheists reject supernatural claims.

Some do; me, for one. But I wouldn't want to claim that for all pantheists.

Well, I'm used to basically two groups: Spinoza-style Western pantheists and I know a little about that Hindu splinter group of pantheists, both of which reject supernaturalism. My knowledge of the latter group is a lot shakier.

What I find fascinating is that the Hindu pantheists started from a position of theism then arrived at naturalism. According to them, the universe is god, therefore nothing can exist outside of god, therefore it is impossible for the supernatural to exist. Only the natural can exist. Please correct me if I got that wrong.

Anyway, I'm with YouTube personality TMM when it comes to pantheism. If you call the universe god, then god is just an unnecessary explanation. Why not call the universe the universe?

 

[Jobar]

Taken in the strictest sense, i.e. as identifying God and the world, Pantheism is simply Atheism.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11447b.htm.

The Catholics agree with you, Underseer. As do I; I've been calling myself an atheist/pantheist for longer than the Internet has existed.

Still, think about the roots of the word 'universe'. Uni versare- one verse, one song. A unity, 'the which than which there is no whicher.' It does sound quite close to what many believers, mystics in particular, name 'god'. (Almost no organized faiths are really comfortable with their mystics.)