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Paul Krugman on Global Warmin, COP 20 and Republicans

I do not consider it crazy to think that politics and economics are closely related. The notion of dismissing an economists views on politics is not analogous to, say, dismissing a surgeon's views on politics.

You're clearly unaware of just how similar the US government is to the pancreas.

I was thinking you have picked the wrong organ. The one most resembling it has a pucker string...got it? It shall remain unnamed here...I hope.:hitsthefan:

Economic theory can have a profound effect on the environment and vice versa. It appears classical economists freely admit that economy has an effect on the environment and argue it is all good so long as the economy grows. But they deny the vice versa part of the formula or that our economy can hurt itself with growth.
 
bilby effectively blew up your notion somewhere, probably on this thread, two or three days ago. The problem with nuclear is not material it is emotional and I think it is insurmountable.

It is material. Uranium mining produces large amounts
Compared to what?
of unusable but dangerous radioactive materials with much longer half lives
None of which were not present before they dug them out of the ground; and none of which are any more dangerous if simply re-buried than they were prior to being dug up.
You are mistaken if you think radiochemicals just harmlessly go away.
On the contrary; by DEFINITION they do. Of course, some don't go away for a long time - but the ones that are most dangerous do; The ones with the really long half-life are the least active, the safest to handle, and, in many cases are useful in their own right.
They produce daughter products which more often than not are also emitters of low level radiation...the kind that is most responsible for carcinogenesis.
But only if people inhale, eat, or drink it. So some simple safety protocols render the stuff harmless.

Of course, you can go off on paranoid hysteria about what happens if it leaks; but if that's your kind of thing, you have many orders of magnitude more worrying to do about the chemical industry, before you start in on the nuclear industry.

Sure, there are risks; but they are no worse than the risks of many other things you seem to be far less concerned about. This whole line of argument is just tantamount to "No level of risk is acceptable" - and that's an untenable position to take on anything.
Just because a material is not usable in a reactor does not mean it is not radioactive and not a dangerous source of radiation exposure.
Just because a material is radioactive does not mean it is a dangerous source of radiation exposure. To qualify for that description it needs to be uncontained, and present in sufficient concentration to cause harm. That's a MUCH higher standard than the one you are attempting to impose.
Iraq was heavily dosed with U238 and they definitely have problems with birth defects in the areas where DU was used extensively in battle. A lot of this product exists in waste piles on American Indian reservations in Arizona and New Mexico.
All of which can be attributed directly to the US military, and which has exactly fuck all to do with commercial nuclear power generation. What's next, arguing against the use of cars on the basis that wheeled vehicles were used by the Imperial Japanese Army during the rape of Nanking?

I don't think Bilby has destroyed any of my arguments at all. It appears he has a misunderstanding of the nature of radiation.
It certainly appears that one of us has. I am sure it's not me.
 
A prominent neoclassical economist at Harvard, Greg Mankiw routinely writes abstracts and conclusions that follow the neoclassical dogmas but in the body of the paper he presents the actual evidence that he found that routinely deny the dogmas. He knows that most people read only the abstract and maybe the conclusion and don't read the main body of the paper. He has done this for years.

I haven't read any further into this thread yet but I predict Maxie isn't going to like you ripping into his butt-buddy Mankiw.

Sometimes I just get too exhausted bestowing my wisdom upon the benighted masses...besides, I'm busy with cleaning out my belly button lint and now watching football.
 
While I think nuclear would go a long way toward reducing greenhouse gas emissions, it is not carbon free. It's about the same as wind power generation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life-cycle_greenhouse-gas_emissions_of_energy_sources

Nothing is carbon free. Nuclear and wind are by far the lowest carbon options though, so I am not sure why you feel the need to point out that these are 'the best' but not 'perfect' - it makes zero difference to the conclusions to be drawn when the question is 'how do we minimise carbon pollution'.

Something that is 75x better than the status-quo is probably a good idea, even if it isn't perfect.

Perfect is the enemy of good.

Because the guy quoted said this.:
What's especially strange about the failed push for renewables is that we already had a practical plan back in the 1960's to become fully carbon-free without any need of wind or solar: nuclear power.
 
I haven't read any further into this thread yet but I predict Maxie isn't going to like you ripping into his butt-buddy Mankiw.

Sometimes I just get too exhausted bestowing my wisdom upon the benighted masses...besides, I'm busy with cleaning out my belly button lint and now watching football.

Heh heh. Go, uh, Team?
 
Much like Milton Friedman Krugman has found a voice in the political pundit area. At least Krugman comes from a more realistic economic theory base as a New Keynesian than Friedman did as a neoclassical economists pining for the unrealistic and never before seen free market. The advantage that a Keynesian has over other schools of economics is that Keynes concentrated on understanding the economy that we have. Other schools like the neoclassical economics school concentrate on changing the current economic system to match an unrealistic ideal economy that doesn't exist and can never exist.

The problem with the New Keynesians like Krugman is that they have met the neoclassical economists more than half of the way between the realism of Keynes and the fantasy of the free market enthusiasts. Krugman readily admits that he catered to and bent his research toward the neoclassical economists' philosophy in his research so that he could be published in their journals. Certainly he wouldn't have won the Nobel prize in economists had he challenged the neoclassicists more openly.

A prominent neoclassical economist at Harvard, Greg Mankiw routinely writes abstracts and conclusions that follow the neoclassical dogmas but in the body of the paper he presents the actual evidence that he found that routinely deny the dogmas. He knows that most people read only the abstract and maybe the conclusion and don't read the main body of the paper. He has done this for years.

The neoclassical economic is the economics of Marshall that was shown to be in error almost from the very beginning. In fact, Keynes started out to write a defense of his mentor Marshall and his theories. But it didn't take Keynes very far into the research for what became his General Theory to realize that Marshall's neoclassical theories didn't explain the industrial economy that we had in 1936. Keynes realized that the industrial revolution had changed the economy to one dramatically different from the economy of the classical economists, that is of Smith, Ricardo, Malthus, Marx, etc. and that the further development of their theories by the neoclassical economists like Marshall didn't come close to explaining the economy of 1936. And that the single largest difference was that the 1936 economy was no longer supply driven, that is determined by the amount of capital and investments, but was becoming more and more led by demand. That supply, that is capital, was no longer land like it had been in the mainly agricultural economy of the classical economists but now was only money. And money in the modern fiat money system is not a limited resource. Keynes barely could see what we now know is true, that the economy produces the amount of money that it needs in a fiat money system. That what is limiting the economy isn't the money available to invest but the money in the hands of the consumers to buy goods and services.

This revelation of Keynes and the subsequent work done by Keynesians through the decades since have been proven time and time again. But these revelations didn't sit very well with a small but powerful group of people, rich investors who didn't like to be told that they weren't very important to the economy any longer. The wealthy fund the schools that economists work and teach in. The wealthy hire the graduates of the economics schools. They could and they did impose their own views on the schools and on the economists. What was cobbled together was the monster of the neoclassical synthesis, a combination of the discredited neoclassical economics with as little of the much hated demand driven, investor belittling but realistic Keynesian economics as they felt that they couldn't ignore.

Over the years Keynes has been turned into a four letter swear word. Neoclassical economics went over into never Neverland of pure fantasy with supply side economics, the economics that to this day defines the economic policies that we follow. But you can't escape Keynes and his followers. They have explained and predicted every twist and turn, every fault of the supply side economic policies of today, including the Great Recession of 2008. The only economists who not only predicted the financial crisis that caused the recession but who also explained the timing and the reasons for the financial crisis, were the Post Keynesians.

Nice.

However we need to be ready for the next justification for hyperinflation let out of the neoclassical cage to scare anyone who dare suggest government power, not held assets, determine the credibility of their money and economy.

PS: I'm probably the last one who will read your nice piece.
I just read it and recommend it to anyone who hasn't (bump).
 
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