Pence says Buttigieg bringing 'attacks on my Christian faith'

[AirPoh]

Pence's faith must be very weak if the mere existence of a gay guy is an "attack."

When Bash asked Pence whether he agreed with Buttigieg's assertion that God made him gay, Pence replied, "all of us have our own religious convictions. Pete has his convictions, I have mine."
"I hope that Pete will offer more to the American people than attacks on my Christian faith or attacks on the President as he seeks the highest office in the land," Pence said, later adding, "he'd do well to reflect on the importance of respecting the freedom of religion of every American."

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/12/poli...tigieg-william-barr-julian-assange/index.html

 

[hurtinbuckaroo]

"he'd do well to reflect on the importance of respecting the freedom of religion of every American."

I'm fairly certain his definition of "freedom of religion" is different from most people's.

 

[southernhybrid]

While I do think that Pence is an evil asshole for many reasons, I wish politicians would all keep their stupid religious beliefs to themselves!

 

[laughing dog]

To any thinking person, Buttigieg's assertion that God made him gay could not be viewed as attack anyone's particular religion. But Pence's target audience is not thinking people. If one is a homophobic jackass, I suppose one might view it as an attack on God.

 

[steve_bank]

Buttigieg's statement was right on target. No problem with faith unless it is used to hurt people.

Hopefully the media debate will not stop.

 

[Politesse]

They are both Christians. I can only assume that Buttigieg was not attacking his "Christian faith" so much as his "asshole faith".

 

[Angra Mainyu]

They are both Christians. I can only assume that Buttigieg was not attacking his "Christian faith" so much as his "asshole faith".

Why would you assume that?
It may well be that his beliefs on, say, homosexuality, are based on his Christian faith. Variants of Christianity encompassing most Christians in the world have negative views on same-sex behavior, and often their adherents are against same-sex behavior because of their religion.

 

[steve_bank]

There was an acrimonious split in the American Anglican Church over gays. Some split off and attached to a Ugandan conference that is virulently anti gay.

There are liberal Jewish and Christian sects that accept gays. Don't know about Muslims.

I can respect any belief system that does not use it to denigrate others. Mixing sex politics and religion is toxic. People are ne free to faith, they are not free to enact laws that satisfy their faith at the expense of others.

What if my secular philosophy says in my business I should not serve Christians. No cakes for Christian weddings.


https://www.virtueonline.org/episcopalians-american-anglicans-split-mike-mcmanus

 

[Trausti]

This all seems rather stupid.

 

[barbos]

This all seems rather stupid.

Is this Book of Satan or something?

 

[Trausti]

This all seems rather stupid.

Is this Book of Satan or something?

Grenell is the U.S. Ambassador to Germany. His partner is holding the Bible. Pence is cool with it.

 

[barbos]

This all seems rather stupid.

Is this Book of Satan or something?

Grenell is the U.S. Ambassador to Germany. His partner is holding the Bible. Pence is cool with it.

Oh, that is that fucker who writes retarded letters about russian threat in Germany, OK.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

This all seems rather stupid.

Is this Book of Satan or something?

Looks like the unabridged version. They're trying to rub it the right way so the evil genie pops out as Pence reads from the instruction manual. The scene looks like something out of the Little Rascals.

Or maybe they're checking for a pulse because the book is dead.

 

[Politesse]

They are both Christians. I can only assume that Buttigieg was not attacking his "Christian faith" so much as his "asshole faith".

Why would you assume that?
It may well be that his beliefs on, say, homosexuality, are based on his Christian faith. Variants of Christianity encompassing most Christians in the world have negative views on same-sex behavior, and often their adherents are against same-sex behavior because of their religion.

Well, yes. But those guys are assholes, and its really the assholery, I would assume, the Buttigieg objects to. Not the Jesus bits, which they presumably share.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Pence's faith must be very weak if the mere existence of a gay guy is an "attack."

When Bash asked Pence whether he agreed with Buttigieg's assertion that God made him gay, Pence replied, "all of us have our own religious convictions. Pete has his convictions, I have mine."
"I hope that Pete will offer more to the American people than attacks on my Christian faith or attacks on the President as he seeks the highest office in the land," Pence said, later adding, "he'd do well to reflect on the importance of respecting the freedom of religion of every American."

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/12/poli...tigieg-william-barr-julian-assange/index.html

Of course it is--a gay is evidence that reality doesn't match up with the Bible. In that case, deny reality!

 

[Angra Mainyu]

They are both Christians. I can only assume that Buttigieg was not attacking his "Christian faith" so much as his "asshole faith".

Why would you assume that?
It may well be that his beliefs on, say, homosexuality, are based on his Christian faith. Variants of Christianity encompassing most Christians in the world have negative views on same-sex behavior, and often their adherents are against same-sex behavior because of their religion.

Well, yes. But those guys are assholes, and its really the assholery, I would assume, the Buttigieg objects to. Not the Jesus bits, which they presumably share.

While they likely share formal adherence to the Jesus bits, they almost certainly interpret them in radically different ways, so the Jesus bits are not the same in their heads - and in reality, they are probably very mistaken in different ways about what Jesus actually stood for.

 

[Politesse]

Well, yes. But those guys are assholes, and its really the assholery, I would assume, the Buttigieg objects to. Not the Jesus bits, which they presumably share.

While they likely share formal adherence to the Jesus bits, they almost certainly interpret them in radically different ways, so the Jesus bits are not the same in their heads - and in reality, they are probably very mistaken in different ways about what Jesus actually stood for.

Obviously. But I'm still pretty sure that Buttigieg is upset that Pence is an asshole. Not that he is Christian.

 

[Angra Mainyu]

Well, yes. But those guys are assholes, and its really the assholery, I would assume, the Buttigieg objects to. Not the Jesus bits, which they presumably share.

While they likely share formal adherence to the Jesus bits, they almost certainly interpret them in radically different ways, so the Jesus bits are not the same in their heads - and in reality, they are probably very mistaken in different ways about what Jesus actually stood for.

Obviously. But I'm still pretty sure that Buttigieg is upset that Pence is an asshole. Not that he is Christian.

That would not be the point, but I think there is a good chance that Buttigieg is upset that Pence is a Christian of the variety of Christianity Pence adheres to. Indeed, Buttigieg seems to be (probably) upset with a Christian view that encompasses most Christians, historically and probably today.

The fact that Buttigieg believes he has no problem with Pence's religion does not change the fact that of course he does.


Also, Buttigieg makes a bad argument given his theistic position, by the way, claiming Pence has a problem with his creator if he has a problem with his being gay; what Pence seems to be saying is that same-sex sex is immoral, as he says that giving in to some other propensities is immoral. But does Buttigieg himself not hold that acting on some propensities is immoral, while holding he has no problem with the creator? I'm pretty sure he does.

 

[Politesse]

The fact that Buttigieg believes he has no problem with Pence's religion does not change the fact that of course he does.

Yes, but it is not Pence's Christianity that Buttigieg would object to, so characterizing a disagreement about hamartiology as an "attack on Christianity" is at best overly dramatic, if not outright deceitful. And I get tired of people trying to silence gay Christians, especially when the silencers aren't conservative or Christian themselves and really shouldn't have a dog in the fight.

Also, Buttigieg makes a bad argument given his theistic position, by the way, claiming Pence has a problem with his creator if he has a problem with his being gay; what Pence seems to be saying is that same-sex sex is immoral, as he says that giving in to some other propensities is immoral. But does Buttigieg himself not hold that acting on some propensities is immoral, while holding he has no problem with the creator? I'm pretty sure he does.

One is not born a "cheater-at-cards" in the same sense that one is born a homosexual.

 

[braces_for_impact]

From my Facebook post on the subject:

This is not difficult. If you're a Christian, you are a believer. You have faith in an idea, but it's still an idea. Ideas are subject to criticism... full stop.
I don't care how reverent you are. I don't care if your pastor tells you faith is a virtue and you should never question your faith. The rest of us know, that there are ZERO ideas that should be taken for granted and never examined.
Your faith is and should always be subject to criticism. If you are fond of calling people snowflakes and making light of people seeking safe places, why is it you ALWAYS demand your own safe space with regards to your religious beliefs? Why do you get so bent out of shape when others question whether those beliefs are valid?
Like it not, history has shown, in all its gory detail, how religion has been abused time and time again to hurt others, to rule over others, to restrict others freedom, to root out heresy. Yet somehow, you feel lucky enough to have found the one true religion in all our thousands of years of history that doesn't cause evil and only promotes good? Bitch, please.