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President Biden's Infrastructure Plans

Derec

Contributor
In other words, the same thing that was done with the Republican tax cut for the rich. I didn't see you objecting then, why are you objecting now?
I might have missed it. Such accounting gimmicks were wrong then and are wrong now.
Let's turn it around: do you think this was wrong for the 2017 tax cuts? If so, then why do you support it now?
 

Derec

Contributor
Places with high local taxes take a bigger bite than places with low local taxes. You can decide whether you want more or less local government and that's a good thing.
But if people in California decide they want higher state and local taxes, then people living in California should be paying more taxes. They should not get to have taxpayers in lower tax states like Florida or Georgia subsidize their high state and local tax rates.

By the way: people in California who take the standard deduction have to pay higher taxes because they are not eligible for SALT deductions. It is only those who itemize - mostly those better off - who have access to this subsidy. And the more wealthy they are, the more they get from it.
5.3.1-figure1.png

This is for tax year 2017, so before the $10k cap took effect. As you can see, the deduction is extremely regressive.
 

Derec

Contributor
Non-biodegradable plastics aren't much of a problem for anything persistent, like clothing.
It was a video game joke. In any case, I hold that paper drinking straws are an abomination. They get soggy quick and have a weird mouthfeel.
 

Derec

Contributor
So the density argument does not hold much water.
How so? It shows that the NE corridor has density sufficient for HSR, but not much of the rest of the country. It is not an accident that the NE corridor is the only place where currently intercity passenger rail is viable.
I think we need to focus more on rail rapid transit in metro areas, not between them. Getting more people to drive fewer miles would have a huge impact, not only on carbon emissions and energy use but also land use patterns (i.e. fewer large parking lots and parking garages in city centers and also fewer highways cutting through cities would be needed)
 
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Swammerdami

Squadron Leader
Staff member
GOP senators appalled by 'ridiculous' House infighting | TheHill
Republican senators are expressing shock and disbelief that conservative allies of former President Trump in the House threatened to strip colleagues who voted for the $1 trillion infrastructure bill of their committee assignments.

The incredulous reactions of Republican senators to a motion filed in the House to boot Rep. John Katko (N.Y.) from his position as the top-ranking Republican on the House Homeland Security Committee because of his vote for the infrastructure bill reveal the chasm that is opening up between the Senate and House GOP conferences.

The GOP Senate and the QOP House are, nominally, elected by the very same people. Yet now there is a palpable mismatch between even these bodies! Further example, IMO, that "Republican" partisan politics have exceeded all degrees of inanity.
I failed to acknowledge that there are stupid treasonous GOP Senators. e.g. Ted Cruz, as well as GOP Reps. But it seems that John Kennedy, Senator from Louisiana, is challenging Cruz for the title of Most Asinine Senator, Maybe he's trying for honorary membership in the MTG-Gaetz-Boebert club.

We've got the Emmys and Oscars. Wouldn't it be a public good if there were televised awards to celebrate creatures like "Most Asinine Senator", "Most Corrupt Governor", and so on?
 

TV and credit cards

Veteran Member
GOP senators appalled by 'ridiculous' House infighting | TheHill
Republican senators are expressing shock and disbelief that conservative allies of former President Trump in the House threatened to strip colleagues who voted for the $1 trillion infrastructure bill of their committee assignments.

The incredulous reactions of Republican senators to a motion filed in the House to boot Rep. John Katko (N.Y.) from his position as the top-ranking Republican on the House Homeland Security Committee because of his vote for the infrastructure bill reveal the chasm that is opening up between the Senate and House GOP conferences.

The GOP Senate and the QOP House are, nominally, elected by the very same people. Yet now there is a palpable mismatch between even these bodies! Further example, IMO, that "Republican" partisan politics have exceeded all degrees of inanity.
I failed to acknowledge that there are stupid treasonous GOP Senators. e.g. Ted Cruz, as well as GOP Reps. But it seems that John Kennedy, Senator from Louisiana, is challenging Cruz for the title of Most Asinine Senator, Maybe he's trying for honorary membership in the MTG-Gaetz-Boebert club.

We've got the Emmys and Oscars. Wouldn't it be a public good if there were televised awards to celebrate creatures like "Most Asinine Senator", "Most Corrupt Governor", and so on?
A Trumpie.
 

Loren Pechtel

Super Moderator
Staff member
So the density argument does not hold much water.
How so? It shows that the NE corridor has density sufficient for HSR, but not much of the rest of the country. It is not an accident that the NE corridor is the only place where currently intercity passenger rail is viable.
I think we need to focus more on rail rapid transit in metro areas, not between them. Getting more people to drive fewer miles would have a huge impact, not only on carbon emissions and energy use but also land use patterns (i.e. fewer large parking lots and parking garages in city centers and also fewer highways cutting through cities would be needed)

This. HSR isn't of much value if you need a vehicle at your destination.
 

lpetrich

Contributor
I've found research that indicates when trains are competitive with airliners: Air and Rail Competition and Complementarity from 2006

Trains have nearly 100% market share up to a trip time of 2 hours or less, the two are about equal at 3.5 hours, then airliners have nearly 100% market share at 5 hours or more.

That being noted, long high-speed corridors still have value if they have a lot of cities along their length. That is because they can support trips along parts of their lengths. Thus, for a Portland ME - Miami FL "Atlantic Axis", as I call it, one does not need a lot of Portland-Miami passengers if one has plenty of Portland-Boston, Boston-NYC, NYC-DC, DC-Raleigh, Raleigh-Atlanta, Atlanta-Jacksonville, and Jacksonville-Miami passengers.

Furthermore, a long corridor can be built in segments. Consider Amsterdam NL - Cádiz ES, nearly 3000 kilometers / 2000 miles long, longer than that Atlantic Axis. It was built in pieces over the decades, starting with Paris - Lyon in 1981 and still with a non-high-speed stretch: Montpellier - Perpignan in southern France. I checked in raileurope.com and one has to take several trains along the way: Amsterdam - Paris - Valence - Barcelona - Madrid - Sevilla - Cádiz.
 

Shadowy Man

Veteran Member
Places with high local taxes take a bigger bite than places with low local taxes. You can decide whether you want more or less local government and that's a good thing.
But if people in California decide they want higher state and local taxes, then people living in California should be paying more taxes. They should not get to have taxpayers in lower tax states like Florida or Georgia subsidize their high state and local tax rates.
I could support changing the federal structure so that people in one state don’t subsidize the people in other states. If that were to happen do you think the people in California would be worse off or better off?
 

Elixir

Content Thief
CA pays about 13.7 billion MORE in federal taxes than it receives back.
So figure it out.
California could secede and become richer, while making every other State poorer.
 

lpetrich

Contributor
To complete my assessment, I estimated the average speed on a full-scale high-speed line. I found varying estimates, and I used 250 km/h or 155 mph for top speed 300 km/h or 186 mph.

So 2h, 3.5h, 5 h give 500, 875, 1250 km, or 310, 540, 780 mi.

Let's see how distances between cities compare. China is a special case because it is so populous, and that makes it easy to justify long HSR lines in the eastern half of the country. So I'll look at others. All distances Google Maps driving distances unless indicated otherwise. Geo = geometric / great circle / shortest / as the airplane flies

  • Japan: Kagoshima - 324 km - Fukuoka - 612 km - Osaka - 498 km - Tokyo - 362 km - Sendai - 353 km - Aomori
  • S Korea: Seoul - 326 km (geo) - Busan
  • Taiwan: Taipei - 353 km - Kaohsiung City
  • A-C: Amsterdam - 203 km - Brussels - 119 km - Lille - 225 km - Paris - 466 km - Lyon - 304 km - Montpellier - 346 km - Barcelona - 625 km - Madrid - 526 km - Sevilla - 121 km - Cádiz -- total: 2935 km
  • Paris - London: Paris - 225 km - Lille - 328 km - London -- total: 553 km
  • SW France: Paris - 239 km - Tours - 349 km
  • Italy: Turin - 178 km - Milan - 211 km - Bologna - 109 km - Florence - 273 km - Rome - 226 km - Naples -- total: 997 km

Now the Atlantic Axis: Portland ME - 172 km - Boston MA - 348 km - New York NY - 364 km - Washington DC - 422 km - Raleigh NC - 654 km - Atlanta GA - 556 km - Jacksonville FL - 556 km - Miami FL -- total: 3072 km

Greater Chicagoland: Chicago IL ...
  • 455 km - Detroit MI:
  • 556 km - Cleveland OH
  • 477 km - Cincinnati OH
  • 478 km - St. Louis MO - 512 km - Kansas City
  • 537 km - Des Moines IA - 216 km - Omaha NE
  • 658 km - Minneapolis MN
Ohio: Cincinnati OH - 401 km - Cleveland OH

Texas: Houston - 385 km - Dallas - 315 km - Austin - 266 km - Houston

California: San Francisco - 78 km - San Jose - 240 km - Fresno - 176 km - Bakersfield - 153 km - Palmdale - 104 km -- total: 751 km

So by city distances, there is much of the US that is very suited for HSR development.
 
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Harry Bosch

Contributor
CA pays about 13.7 billion MORE in federal taxes than it receives back.
So figure it out.
California could secede and become richer, while making every other State poorer.
Correct. The liberal areas of the country create the vast amount of wealth in the US. We support the right wing areas. And it's not even close.
 

lpetrich

Contributor
Rep. Ocasio-Cortez on Instagram: “Swipe ➡️ to learn more about Representative Ocasio-Cortez's "no" vote on the infrastructure bill, the future of the Build Back Better Agenda, and what this might mean for combatting climate change.”
Congress recently passed an infrastructure bill. Representative Ocasio-Cortez voted 'no' because it does little to decrease carbon emissions - which is essential to preventing the worst impacts of climate change.

The spending falls far short of the levels of government action that scientific reports have concluded is needed to either prevent or prepare for the worst impacts of climate change. -- New York Times, 11/6/2021
Then about how the infrastructure bill "was not designed to exist on its own".
Some of what was left out of the infrastructure bill was put into a separate bill called the Build Back Better Act, including climate change provisions. The infrastructure bill and the Build Back Better Act were designed to be passed together like a lock and a key.
Lead Pipes
(lock) The cost to replace every lead pipe in the United States is between $45 and $60 billion. The infrastructure bill only provides $15 billion, which is enough to survey where all the lead pipes are, but not enough to replace them.

(key) Build Back Better contains additional money we need to replace every lead pipe.
EV Chargers
(lock) $7.5 billion is allocated in the infrastructure bill for electric vehicle charging stations. But in order for these charging stations to be actually useful, we need more electric vehicles on the road!

(key) BBB would expand electric vehicle tax credits to up to $12,500 - making electric vehicles more affordable.
"It's simple. To reduce emissions, we have to pass the Build Back Better Act."
 

lpetrich

Contributor
Rep. Ocasio-Cortez on Instagram: “What’s in the Build Back Better Act? Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez successfully fought for the creation of the Civilian Climate Corps as well as funding for public housing and high speed rail. Swipe ➡️ to learn more.”
On Friday, the House passed the President's Build Back Better Act, which included several pieces of legislation that Rep. Ocasio-Cortez introduced, including:
  • CIVILIAN CLIMATE CORPS
  • FUNDS FOR PUBLIC HOUSING
  • HIGH SPEED RAIL FUNDING
  • LIMITING THE FAIRCLOTH AMENDMENT

$30 BILLION FOR THE CIVILIAN CLIMATE CORPS

In April, we introduced the Civilian Climate Corps with Senator Ed Markey. Build Back Better allocates $30 billion in funding for the creation of a new Civilian Climate Corps, which would create 300,000 green, good-paying, union jobs.

$65 BILLION FOR PUBLIC HOUSING

The housing funds allocated in Build Back Better could be used to clear the New York City Housing Authority's maintenance backlog, or for green retrofits and resilience building.

$10 BILLION FOR HIGH SPEED RAIL

Rep. Ocasio-Cortez secured these funds after we called for additional funding for high speed rail in June with Senators Ed Markey and Kirsten Gillibrand, and Representatives Jim Costa and Seth Moulton. This money will improve our built environment, reduce inequity, and help grow cities across the nation.

LIMITING THE FAIRCLOTH AMENDMENT

In 2020, we led a successful vote in the House to repeal the Faircloth Amendment, which prevents building more public housing in the United States. Due to the leadership of Reps. Ocasio-Cortez and Maxine Waters, new housing funding available through BBB will not be subject to the Faircloth Amendment.
I don't know how much of this will survive Joe Manchin.
 

ZiprHead

Loony Running The Asylum
Staff member
Rep. Ocasio-Cortez on Instagram: “What’s in the Build Back Better Act? Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez successfully fought for the creation of the Civilian Climate Corps as well as funding for public housing and high speed rail. Swipe ➡️ to learn more.”
On Friday, the House passed the President's Build Back Better Act, which included several pieces of legislation that Rep. Ocasio-Cortez introduced, including:
  • CIVILIAN CLIMATE CORPS
  • FUNDS FOR PUBLIC HOUSING
  • HIGH SPEED RAIL FUNDING
  • LIMITING THE FAIRCLOTH AMENDMENT

$30 BILLION FOR THE CIVILIAN CLIMATE CORPS

In April, we introduced the Civilian Climate Corps with Senator Ed Markey. Build Back Better allocates $30 billion in funding for the creation of a new Civilian Climate Corps, which would create 300,000 green, good-paying, union jobs.

$65 BILLION FOR PUBLIC HOUSING

The housing funds allocated in Build Back Better could be used to clear the New York City Housing Authority's maintenance backlog, or for green retrofits and resilience building.

$10 BILLION FOR HIGH SPEED RAIL

Rep. Ocasio-Cortez secured these funds after we called for additional funding for high speed rail in June with Senators Ed Markey and Kirsten Gillibrand, and Representatives Jim Costa and Seth Moulton. This money will improve our built environment, reduce inequity, and help grow cities across the nation.

LIMITING THE FAIRCLOTH AMENDMENT

In 2020, we led a successful vote in the House to repeal the Faircloth Amendment, which prevents building more public housing in the United States. Due to the leadership of Reps. Ocasio-Cortez and Maxine Waters, new housing funding available through BBB will not be subject to the Faircloth Amendment.
I don't know how much of this will survive Joe Manchin.
The coal baron will cover his own ass at the expence of the nation.
 
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