Princeton confesses its embedded racism; Education Dept reviews its compliance with the law

[KeepTalking]

Ah, so when a university says there is institutional racism we should all just know it’s bullshit? ‘Cause it is bullshit.

No. I will, however, take your non-response as an endorsement of the view that the US Government, and the DoJ specifically, should be in the business of trolling libs, rather than governing or enforcing laws. It also seems that you want your leaders to be schoolyard bullies, and our nation the schoolyard. That's great as long as they are picking on someone other than you, but what will you do when no one is left, and you become their target?

It’s against the law for the university to have racist policies. University announces it’s racist. If you don’t mean it don’t say it.

What is it that I said that you do not think I mean. Please be specific and quote me directly.

 

[KeepTalking]

The letter specifically says racism occurs at Princeton:

Racism and the damage it does to people of color nevertheless persist at Princeton as in our society, sometimes by conscious intention but more often through unexamined assumptions and stereotypes, ignorance or insensitivity, and the systemic legacy of past decisions and policies.

Where does it say that their admission policies are currently racist, or have been in the recent past?

 

[KeepTalking]

I’m a bit confused as to what exactly it is you are complaining about in this case.

I'm confused as to why you are confused, or why you think correcting KeepTalking is 'complaining'.

KeepTalking said:

Pointing out that "racist assumptions from the past also remain embedded in structures of the University itself" does not necessarily mean that the University is currently, or even recently, racist in their admission policies.

But Princeton did not say it only had "racist assumptions from the past...embedded" but also that:

Racism and the damage it does to people of color nevertheless persist at Princeton

So, Princeton has admitted to ongoing racism, not just racist assumptions from the past embedded in current structures (though Princeton has not specifically admitted current racism in its admission policies, just racism in a kind of generalised sense).

Then maybe you need to go back and reread my post, as you just agreed with what I said in that post.

 

[Metaphor]

The letter specifically says racism occurs at Princeton:

Racism and the damage it does to people of color nevertheless persist at Princeton as in our society, sometimes by conscious intention but more often through unexamined assumptions and stereotypes, ignorance or insensitivity, and the systemic legacy of past decisions and policies.

Where does is say that their admission policies are currently racist, or have been in the recent past?

Nowhere?

 

[KeepTalking]

No I’m not talking about correcting anyone, I’m confused about what exactly you are complaining about, in the OP.

My best guess is that you’re doing that thing where AA gets put on a par with the racism that it is trying to do something about the effects of, and as such you are suggesting the president is a hypocrite. But if that’s the case I think you need to say it more clearly, because it’s not automatically obvious to me. Nor would I agree with you that he’s a hypocrite.

Or maybe that’s not what bothers you.

It is true that the president is a hypocrite, and, if the law allowed it, I am certain he would actively discriminate against certain races to achieve his goal. But, that isn't what I was complaining about. I wasn't really 'complaining'.

What I was doing was mocking Eisgruber for his vapid and vainglorious confessional, and mocking the transformation of the word 'racist', particularly in the past five years. I am certain Princeton has done nothing that the Education Department thinks is racist, because the Education Department has not realised 'racist' now means not doing everything you can to dismantle what race activists regard as racism all the time. His letter is a microcosm of the entire deranged state of institutions scrambling to be the next penitent parishioner in the new Woke religion.

I see, you were just tilting at windmills, again.

And it is funny to see the Education Department take Princeton at its word that it is racist. And it's funnier still to see people say the Education Department shouldn't be trolling universities, completely oblivious to the fact that Princeton started it by trolling us.

The Education Department should not be trolling anyone, regardless of whether or not you think that the University President was trolling anyone. That is the problem with the right wing these days, their only principal is "owning the libs".

 

[Metaphor]

I'm confused as to why you are confused, or why you think correcting KeepTalking is 'complaining'.

KeepTalking said:



But Princeton did not say it only had "racist assumptions from the past...embedded" but also that:

Racism and the damage it does to people of color nevertheless persist at Princeton

So, Princeton has admitted to ongoing racism, not just racist assumptions from the past embedded in current structures (though Princeton has not specifically admitted current racism in its admission policies, just racism in a kind of generalised sense).

Then maybe you need to go back and reread my post, as you just agreed with what I said in that post.

What is it in my post that caused you to point out that Princeton did not specifically admit to racism in its admission policies?

Princeton admitted to racism. The Education Department was concerned that Princeton had discriminated by race (presumably this concern would not be limited to discriminating by race in admissions, but also in hiring and any other programs).

 

[Metaphor]

I see, you were just tilting at windmills, again.

No, I was not attacking imaginary enemies. I was mocking Eisgruber and race-obsessed, Woke fantasists.

The Education Department should not be trolling anyone, regardless of whether or not you think that the University President was trolling anyone.

I didn't say the Education Department was trolling.

That is the problem with the right wing these days, their only principal is "owning the libs".

So, you think I'm right-wing?

 

[KeepTalking]

Then maybe you need to go back and reread my post, as you just agreed with what I said in that post.

What is it in my post that caused you to point out that Princeton did not specifically admit to racism in its admission policies?

Because racist admission policies are generally what the Education Department is concerned with when it comes to issues regarding racism at Universities. If you intended to discuss some other aspect of racism at the Unversity, you should have been more specific.

Princeton admitted to racism. The Education Department was concerned that Princeton had discriminated by race (presumably this concern would not be limited to discriminating by race in admissions, but also in hiring and any other programs).

Hiring discrimination would be under the purview of the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC). I wouldn't expect you to know that, given that you are not from the US, but I would expect the Education Department to know that.

 

[KeepTalking]

No, I was not attacking imaginary enemies. I was mocking Eisgruber and race-obsessed, Woke fantasists.

Yes, your fantasies about "The Woke" have you attacking everything that you perceive to be "Woke".

You are fighting the good fight against the giant "Wokes" who exist only in your fever dreams. Fight on Don Metaphor!

I didn't say the Education Department was trolling.

No, but Trausti did. My comments regarding trolling were directed at him, until you decided to say the following:

And it is funny to see the Education Department take Princeton at its word that it is racist. And it's funnier still to see people say the Education Department shouldn't be trolling universities, completely oblivious to the fact that Princeton started it by trolling us.

That certainly seems like an endorsement of Trausti's view on trolling, but it really doesn't matter, as I did not put those words in your mouth, and I am not just going to let your laughing condescension slide.

That is the problem with the right wing these days, their only principal is "owning the libs".

So, you think I'm right-wing?

Yes, I think you are wholly infected by right wing anti-woke propaganda, and every thread you post here only solidifies that line of thinking. If you don't want people to think you are a duck, you should probably stop quacking.

 

[Metaphor]

Because racist admission policies are generally what the Education Department is concerned with when it comes to issues regarding racism at Universities. If you intended to discuss some other aspect of racism at the Unversity, you should have been more specific.

I didn't intend to discuss any aspect of racism at universities. I meant to write about the chain of events, mock Eisgruber, and document another example of the vapid and self-serving white guilt of Woke institutions.

Hiring discrimination would be under the purview of the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC). I wouldn't expect you to know that, given that you are not from the US, but I would expect the Education Department to know that.

The letter from the Education Department does not limit its enquiry to admissions policies.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...president-deems-racism-embedded-in-the-school

What the department seeks to obtain from its investigation is what evidence Princeton used in its determination that the university is racist, including all records regarding Eisgruber's letter and a "spreadsheet identifying each person who has, on the ground of race, color, or national origin, been excluded from participation in, been denied the benefits of, or been subjected to discrimination under any program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance as a result of the Princeton racism or 'damage' referenced in the President’s Letter."

 

[Metaphor]

Yes, your fantasies about "The Woke" have you attacking everything that you perceive to be "Woke".

You are fighting the good fight against the giant "Wokes" who exist only in your fever dreams. Fight on Don Metaphor!

Sure, hun. It is in my fever dreams that I've seen for-profit, multi-million dollar corporations make announcements that they want to dismantle capitalism.

I'm actually kind of flattered you think my imagination is that wild.

That certainly seems like an endorsement of Trausti's view on trolling, but it really doesn't matter, as I did not put those words in your mouth, and I am not just going to let your laughing condescension slide.

I said the Education Department took Princeton at its word, while you seem to believe, like Trausti, that it was trolling Princeton. It isn't my fault that you believe the same thing as Trausti, only you are unhappy about it and Trausti isn't.

Yes, I think you are wholly infected by right wing anti-woke propaganda, and every thread you post here only solidifies that line of thinking. If you don't want people to think you are a duck, you should probably stop quacking.

Being anti-Woke isn't right wing, it's pro-sanity.

 

[ruby sparks]

So, you think I'm right-wing?

Personally, I would have gone for obsessively anti-left.

 

[ruby sparks]

Being anti-Woke...[is]... pro-sanity.

Oooohh....not sure about that at all. It depends how obsessive it is, surely.

 

[KeepTalking]

I didn't intend to discuss any aspect of racism at universities.

Then why did you post your thread on a discussion board?

I meant to write about the chain of events, mock Eisgruber, and document another example of the vapid and self-serving white guilt of Woke institutions.

If that is all you want to do, and you do not want to engage in critical discussion about your viewpoint, then perhaps you should seek out another forum. I would suggest some place more worthy of such diatribes, like FaceBook.

The letter from the Education Department does not limit its enquiry to admissions policies.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...president-deems-racism-embedded-in-the-school

What the department seeks to obtain from its investigation is what evidence Princeton used in its determination that the university is racist, including all records regarding Eisgruber's letter and a "spreadsheet identifying each person who has, on the ground of race, color, or national origin, been excluded from participation in, been denied the benefits of, or been subjected to discrimination under any program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance as a result of the Princeton racism or 'damage' referenced in the President’s Letter."

What Federal financial aid does Princeton receive that is not related to admissions?

 

[KeepTalking]

Sure, hun. It is in my fever dreams that I've seen for-profit, multi-million dollar corporations make announcements that they want to dismantle capitalism.

That certainly seems to be a fever dream to me, perhaps you can link me to a for-profit, multi-million dollar corporation that has announced that they want to dismantle capitalism. It seems highly unlikely that such an announcement has been made, as for-profit, multi-million dollar corporations would not exist without capitalism.

I'm actually kind of flattered you think my imagination is that wild.

You shouldn't be. Though Don Quixote is sympathetic to the title character, Cervantes was definitely not flattering him. In fact, Don Quixote was presented as somewhat insane. Are you sure that is how you want to be viewed?

I said the Education Department took Princeton at its word, while you seem to believe, like Trausti, that it was trolling Princeton. It isn't my fault that you believe the same thing as Trausti, only you are unhappy about it and Trausti isn't.

I don't have to believe that a government agency is trolling in order to point out that Trausti's admiration of perceived trolling from government agencies is wrongheaded, or to be unhappy that a significant portion of the right wing in the USA feels that trolling is what government agencies should be doing. Just like I don't have to believe that there is any merit to the strange ideas you have about "The Woke" in order to discuss how wrong you are to believe those things.

Yes, I think you are wholly infected by right wing anti-woke propaganda, and every thread you post here only solidifies that line of thinking. If you don't want people to think you are a duck, you should probably stop quacking.

Being anti-Woke isn't right wing, it's pro-sanity.

Consuming and regurgitating right wing propaganda regarding "The Woke" all over this discussion board certainly isn't helping you to look less right wing. Perhaps if you showed some awareness that the media you are consuming regarding "The Woke" is often misleading, others might have a different perception of your political leanings.

 

[Metaphor]

Then why did you post your thread on a discussion board?

You know, I can't see how I could have made it any clearer. I've already clarified twice what my intention was.

My intention was not to discuss Princeton's admission policies. Indeed, I don't recall mentioning them once in my OP. My intention was to draw attention to another instance of the institutional left's virtue-signalling nonsense.

If that is all you want to do, and you do not want to engage in critical discussion about your viewpoint, then perhaps you should seek out another forum. I would suggest some place more worthy of such diatribes, like FaceBook.

I'm all for critical discussion. It's a shame it's so hard to draw out from this message board.

Oh, I get a lot of criticism, if 'you're a fuckin' dumb asswipe lol your thread is stupid, you're on ignore now', counts.

What Federal financial aid does Princeton receive that is not related to admissions?

I don't know what federal 'financial aid' it receives, but Princeton gets millions in federal funding for research projects.

 

[Metaphor]

That certainly seems to be a fever dream to me, perhaps you can link me to a for-profit, multi-million dollar corporation that has announced that they want to dismantle capitalism. It seems highly unlikely that such an announcement has been made, as for-profit, multi-million dollar corporations would not exist without capitalism.

It was Lululemon, and I made a couple of errors. One was a recall error: they posted on social media that they wanted to 'resist' (not 'dismantle') capitalism. The other error was thinking Lululemon was a multi-million dollar corporation, instead of being a $40 billion dollar corporation.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-54121641

You shouldn't be. Though Don Quixote is sympathetic to the title character, Cervantes was definitely not flattering him. In fact, Don Quixote was presented as somewhat insane. Are you sure that is how you want to be viewed?

It depends on the person whether I care that they may think me insane. I don't value everybody's opinion equally, and some opinions I don't value at all.

Just like I don't have to believe that there is any merit to the strange ideas you have about "The Woke" in order to discuss how wrong you are to believe those things.

I'd welcome a good faith discussion on my 'strange ideas' about the Woke.

Consuming and regurgitating right wing propaganda regarding "The Woke" all over this discussion board certainly isn't helping you to look less right wing. Perhaps if you showed some awareness that the media you are consuming regarding "The Woke" is often misleading, others might have a different perception of your political leanings.

There are posters on this board who do nothing but post anti-Trump threads, often several a day, and often on nearly or exactly the same Trumpverse subject. Yet, you don't accuse them of regurgitating left wing propaganda, do you? Is it only the right wing who puts out propaganda?

You don't know what media I am consuming to get my stories about the Woke, but I agree a goodly chunk of the media is misleading.

 

[KeepTalking]

You know, I can't see how I could have made it any clearer. I've already clarified twice what my intention was.

Yes you clarified it here:

I didn't intend to discuss any aspect of racism at universities. I meant to write about the chain of events, mock Eisgruber, and document another example of the vapid and self-serving white guilt of Woke institutions.

Which prompted me to ask why you would post a thread regarding "embedded racism" at Princeton on a discussion board, when you "didn't intend to discuss any aspect of racism at universities" in that thread. Some refer to doing such a thing as "trolling", which I am sure you would never do, since it is against the forum rules.

My intention was not to discuss Princeton's admission policies. Indeed, I don't recall mentioning them once in my OP. My intention was to draw attention to another instance of the institutional left's virtue-signalling nonsense.

Indeed, as you have admitted, you "didn't intend to discuss any aspect of racism at universities" at all, thus my advice to take whatever it is you are trying to do here to a forum where discussion of thread topics is not the intended purpose. If FaceBook doesn't do it for you, maybe try Twitter.

I'm all for critical discussion. It's a shame it's so hard to draw out from this message board.

Sure, Jan. Might I remind you of the following admission you just made: "I didn't intend to discuss any aspect of racism at universities".

Oh, I get a lot of criticism, if 'you're a fuckin' dumb asswipe lol your thread is stupid, you're on ignore now', counts.

I obviously don't have you on ignore, have not referred to you as such, and am attempting to engage in critical discussion regarding the topic. I will remind you again that I am not the one who said "I didn't intend to discuss any aspect of racism at universities" in a thread I started about racism at Princeton.

What Federal financial aid does Princeton receive that is not related to admissions?

I don't know what federal 'financial aid' it receives,

Maybe you should find out before you spout off about it then.

but Princeton gets millions in federal funding for research projects.

Are the comments from the president of the University in relation to research projects?

 

[KeepTalking]

It was Lululemon, and I made a couple of errors. One was a recall error: they posted on social media that they wanted to 'resist' (not 'dismantle') capitalism. The other error was thinking Lululemon was a multi-million dollar corporation, instead of being a $40 billion dollar corporation.

Thank you for admitting you were in error.

Just like I don't have to believe that there is any merit to the strange ideas you have about "The Woke" in order to discuss how wrong you are to believe those things.

I'd welcome a good faith discussion on my 'strange ideas' about the Woke.

Well, I'm trying, but it is difficult when one is met with responses like "I didn't intend to discuss any aspect of racism at universities" while doing so.

Consuming and regurgitating right wing propaganda regarding "The Woke" all over this discussion board certainly isn't helping you to look less right wing. Perhaps if you showed some awareness that the media you are consuming regarding "The Woke" is often misleading, others might have a different perception of your political leanings.

There are posters on this board who do nothing but post anti-Trump threads, often several a day, and often on nearly or exactly the same Trumpverse subject. Yet, you don't accuse them of regurgitating left wing propaganda, do you? Is it only the right wing who puts out propaganda?

If you call quoting Donald Trump directly "regurgitating left wing propaganda", I think you need to revisit which party he actually represents.

You don't know what media I am consuming to get my stories about the Woke,

I know which sources you link to when posting these "anti-woke" threads, and they are often right wing sources. Although it is nice to see that you did not do so in this case, keep up the good work.

but I agree a goodly chunk of the media is misleading.

As Mark Twain once observed, “If you don't read the newspaper, you are uninformed. If you do read the newspaper, you are misinformed.”

He said that over a century ago, and it is still apropos with today's news media.

 

[J842P]

Yes, your fantasies about "The Woke" have you attacking everything that you perceive to be "Woke".

You are fighting the good fight against the giant "Wokes" who exist only in your fever dreams. Fight on Don Metaphor!



No, but Trausti did. My comments regarding trolling were directed at him, until you decided to say the following:

And it is funny to see the Education Department take Princeton at its word that it is racist. And it's funnier still to see people say the Education Department shouldn't be trolling universities, completely oblivious to the fact that Princeton started it by trolling us.

That certainly seems like an endorsement of Trausti's view on trolling, but it really doesn't matter, as I did not put those words in your mouth, and I am not just going to let your laughing condescension slide.

That is the problem with the right wing these days, their only principal is "owning the libs".

So, you think I'm right-wing?

Yes, I think you are wholly infected by right wing anti-woke propaganda, and every thread you post here only solidifies that line of thinking. If you don't want people to think you are a duck, you should probably stop quacking.

Denying the existence of "the woke" is either dishonest or just delusional, and either way, it doesn't help your credibility.