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Probiotics are mostly useless and can actually hurt you

phands

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Wow...another cinventional wisdom invalidated....

Probiotics are living micro-organisms that are taken by millions of people to boost their microbiome or to restore their gut ecosystem after a dose of antibiotics. Yet questions remain about whether they actually work.
To find out what really goes on in the gut when people ingest probiotics, immunologist Eran Elinav of the Weizmann Institute of Science in Israel, and colleagues, sampled the microbiome of healthy volunteers directly using endoscopies and colonoscopies. Most other microbiome research relies on faecal samples as a proxy for gut microbes.
They then fed 15 of the volunteers either a commercially available probiotic supplement or a placebo.

The outcome was striking. For a start, the microbes found in faeces were not representative of those that had colonised the gut. “Relying on faecal samples as an indicator of what goes on inside the gut is inaccurate and wrong” says Elinav.
The research also showed that while probiotics colonised the gastrointestinal tract of some people, the gut microbiome of others just expelled them. There was no way of telling from their stool sample which category people fell into. “Some people accept probiotics in their gut, while others just pass them from one end to the other,” says Elinav. They found that the probiotic colonisation patterns were highly dependent on the individual. That tells us that the concept that everyone can benefit from a universal probiotic bought from the supermarket is empirically wrong, he says.


Potent disturbance


Next the researchers measured what happens to the microbiome of people who take probiotics in the hope of restoring their microbiome after antibiotics. Twenty-one volunteers took an identical course of antibiotics and were then assigned to one of three groups. The microbiome of the first group was allowed to recover by itself, whereas the second group was given probiotics. The third group was treated with a dose of their own original pre-antibiotic microbiome by a faecal microbiota transplant (FMT).
Probiotic bacteria readily colonised the gut of everyone in the second group after antibiotics had cleared the way. However, the researchers were surprised to find that this prevented the return of the person’s normal microbiome for up to six months. “The probiotics very potently and persistently prevented the original microbiome returning to its original situation,” says Elinav. “This was very surprising and alarming to us. This adverse effect has not been described to date.”
The opposite effect was observed with the patients given a dose of their own pre-antibiotic microbiome via FMT. Their native gut microbiome returned to normal within days.


https://www.newscientist.com/articl...are-mostly-useless-and-can-actually-hurt-you/
 
I was taking antibiotics for six mints. I was prescribed a probiotic and it helped.

Stomach problems have been cured by fecal transplants. An infusion of healthy bugs into the gut.

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/gas...advanced_endoscopy/fecal_transplantation.html

Probably a lot of people respond to mass marketing who take probiotics and do not need them. Same with vitamins.

Disruption of healthy gut bugs does occur.

I know from my own experience raking plain live culture acidophilus yogurt helps with digestion and bowel movement's at least for me.
 
Yeah, but with yogurt the lactose is a problem for people with lactose intolerance which can flood the intestines with fluid and have bacteria eat the lactose.

Also some yogurt has filler/extenders that are bad, such as xantham gum, acacia gum, carageenan, modified food starch and artificial sweeteners (stevia is "artificial" in that sense).

I would not be surprised if 4 oz of yogurt a week is all that is need for a normal person not coming off of antibiotics to maintain flora.
 
Yeah, but with yogurt the lactose is a problem for people with lactose intolerance which can flood the intestines with fluid and have bacteria eat the lactose.

Also some yogurt has filler/extenders that are bad, such as xantham gum, acacia gum, carageenan, modified food starch and artificial sweeteners (stevia is "artificial" in that sense).

I would not be surprised if 4 oz of yogurt a week is all that is need for a normal person not coming off of antibiotics to maintain flora.

I said plain yogurt. The processed yogurt is no better than a can of soda or a candy bar.

There are plain yogurts.
 
Watch out for modified food starch, carageenan and xantham gum even in plain yogurt.

Reading about pectin in yogurt, seems like it is fairly safe.
 
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Watch out for modified food starch, carageenan and xantham gum even in plain yogurt.

Reading about pectin in yogurt, seems like it is fairly safe.

If I eat the wrong foods I get symptoms of IBS. Plain yogurt is okay but if it has pectin I have to avoid it. That's because most of the pectin added to food in the U.S.comes from citrus, particularly lemon and grapefruit, and it's citrus that will give my gut a problem.

Learned it the hard way.
 
If you think yogurt is bad what do think is in tap water. That stuff will kill you. In new York City part of the treatment is intruding tiny critters. When it came to light some Jews had a kosher issue. I Just drink plain old rap wirer.

What gets me is bottled water. Aside from the plasticizers and mold release for the plastics, it sits on shelves for long periods in light. It all leaches out of the plastic.
 
I've made my own yogurt for years and eat about 10 standard 6 oz portions with some apricot preserves per week. It's made from 1% pasteurized milf plus one serving of supermarket plain yogurt with active cultures. Tastes much better than anything at the grocer and $.30/serving. Also make my own fermented pickles with a little apple cider vinegar added for more sourness and over the past 2 months I've found that eating one spear before dinner eliminates the terrible and chronic gerd I was having for the past many years. No more waking up at night with heartburn or reflux. I've been carrying antacid tablets around with me for years (never wanted to mess around with proton pump inhibitors). I highly recommend anyone with these symptoms to try pickles. The fermented type if you can find them, although I can't swear that it's not just due to the vinegar (which would be counter-intuitive). And they're super easy to make at home. Food for thought. :grin:
 
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Pro-biotics probably help some people and do no harm to most people. There are worst things one can put in their body.

What pro-biotics really do is give a person some feeling of control over things they don't understand.
 
Our micro-biota have been doing fine for millions of years without yogurt. What pro-biotic yogurt is, is sciency marketing that works on people who don't know science.

If you want to be healthy: exercise and consume healthy things.
 
Yogurt goes far back in history. I believe some family yogurt cultures go back many generations in history.

Yogurt used to be associated with 'health nuts'. It became popular as a fad.

Humans got along without laxative's too, and aspirin, and toothpaste, and clean water. I expect stomach and bowel movement problems used to be routine.
 
I've made my own yogurt for years and eat about 10 standard 6 oz portions with some apricot preserves per week. It's made from 1% pasteurized milf plus one serving of supermarket plain yogurt with active cultures. Tastes much better than anything at the grocer and $.30/serving. Also make my own fermented pickles with a little apple cider vinegar added for more sourness and over the past 2 months I've found that eating one spear before dinner eliminates the terrible and chronic gerd I was having for the past many years. No more waking up at night with heartburn or reflux. I've been carrying antacid tablets around with me for years (never wanted to mess around with proton pump inhibitors). I highly recommend anyone with these symptoms to try pickles. The fermented type if you can find them, although I can't swear that it's not just due to the vinegar (which would be counter-intuitive). And they're super easy to make at home. Food for thought. :grin:

The best immediate treatment for those symptoms is charcoal tablets, not the expensive homeopathic junk either, just plain old activated charcoal tablets. Prevention is the best treatment obviously and the only true cure.

Your typical antacid relieves the symptoms temporarily but makes them come back stronger.

Diet is the ticket to a life free of these debilitating symptoms. Believe me, I've been there. One needs to find out what causes the symptoms and eliminate those foods to a very large degree.
 
Yogurt goes far back in history. I believe some family yogurt cultures go back many generations in history.

Yogurt used to be associated with 'health nuts'. It became popular as a fad.

Humans got along without laxative's too, and aspirin, and toothpaste, and clean water. I expect stomach and bowel movement problems used to be routine.

Fermented vegetables such as sauerkraut and pickles go way back also. Beer and wine are fermented but became a necessity in Europe because they are antibiotic and the water was often contaminated. Whether you can benefit from probiotics might depend on where you come from and what kind of bacteria are involved. The scientific method starts with a theory and follows with experiments. Historically human culture has evolved mainly by experiment or serendipity. I'll take either approach to get to what works.
 
I've made my own yogurt for years and eat about 10 standard 6 oz portions with some apricot preserves per week. It's made from 1% pasteurized milf plus one serving of supermarket plain yogurt with active cultures. Tastes much better than anything at the grocer and $.30/serving. Also make my own fermented pickles with a little apple cider vinegar added for more sourness and over the past 2 months I've found that eating one spear before dinner eliminates the terrible and chronic gerd I was having for the past many years. No more waking up at night with heartburn or reflux. I've been carrying antacid tablets around with me for years (never wanted to mess around with proton pump inhibitors). I highly recommend anyone with these symptoms to try pickles. The fermented type if you can find them, although I can't swear that it's not just due to the vinegar (which would be counter-intuitive). And they're super easy to make at home. Food for thought. :grin:

The best immediate treatment for those symptoms is charcoal tablets, not the expensive homeopathic junk either, just plain old activated charcoal tablets. Prevention is the best treatment obviously and the only true cure.

Your typical antacid relieves the symptoms temporarily but makes them come back stronger.

Diet is the ticket to a life free of these debilitating symptoms. Believe me, I've been there. One needs to find out what causes the symptoms and eliminate those foods to a very large degree.

I know I would benefit from eating and drinking less and abstaining several hours before bedtime. Amazingly the pickles seem to have provided some recourse from that difficult situation.
 
I've made my own yogurt for years and eat about 10 standard 6 oz portions with some apricot preserves per week. It's made from 1% pasteurized milf plus one serving of supermarket plain yogurt with active cultures. Tastes much better than anything at the grocer and $.30/serving. Also make my own fermented pickles with a little apple cider vinegar added for more sourness and over the past 2 months I've found that eating one spear before dinner eliminates the terrible and chronic gerd I was having for the past many years. No more waking up at night with heartburn or reflux. I've been carrying antacid tablets around with me for years (never wanted to mess around with proton pump inhibitors). I highly recommend anyone with these symptoms to try pickles. The fermented type if you can find them, although I can't swear that it's not just due to the vinegar (which would be counter-intuitive). And they're super easy to make at home. Food for thought. :grin:

I don't know exactly what a pasteurized milf is, but I am not going to google it on my work computer... :D
 
A former co-worker spoke once about how he'd once become lactose intolerant after treating a nasty illness with some strong antibiotics. He was able to reset himself by eating some plain yogurt, putting some of those good bacteria back in his system.
 
I've made my own yogurt for years and eat about 10 standard 6 oz portions with some apricot preserves per week. It's made from 1% pasteurized milf plus one serving of supermarket plain yogurt with active cultures. Tastes much better than anything at the grocer and $.30/serving. Also make my own fermented pickles with a little apple cider vinegar added for more sourness and over the past 2 months I've found that eating one spear before dinner eliminates the terrible and chronic gerd I was having for the past many years. No more waking up at night with heartburn or reflux. I've been carrying antacid tablets around with me for years (never wanted to mess around with proton pump inhibitors). I highly recommend anyone with these symptoms to try pickles. The fermented type if you can find them, although I can't swear that it's not just due to the vinegar (which would be counter-intuitive). And they're super easy to make at home. Food for thought. :grin:

The best immediate treatment for those symptoms is charcoal tablets, not the expensive homeopathic junk either, just plain old activated charcoal tablets. Prevention is the best treatment obviously and the only true cure.

Your typical antacid relieves the symptoms temporarily but makes them come back stronger.

Diet is the ticket to a life free of these debilitating symptoms. Believe me, I've been there. One needs to find out what causes the symptoms and eliminate those foods to a very large degree.

I know I would benefit from eating and drinking less and abstaining several hours before bedtime. Amazingly the pickles seem to have provided some recourse from that difficult situation.

Back when I tried fermented veggies, carrots mostly, and didn't seem to tolerate them. If you don't mind my asking, do you make refrigerator pickles, the kind that keep in the fridge for a couple months? I'm always looking for ways to help my gut. Things are good and under control presently, but I do like pickles and if I eat them I usually get indigestion.
 
I know I would benefit from eating and drinking less and abstaining several hours before bedtime. Amazingly the pickles seem to have provided some recourse from that difficult situation.

Back when I tried fermented veggies, carrots mostly, and didn't seem to tolerate them. If you don't mind my asking, do you make refrigerator pickles, the kind that keep in the fridge for a couple months? I'm always looking for ways to help my gut. Things are good and under control presently, but I do like pickles and if I eat them I usually get indigestion.

Glad to share. What you call refridgerator pickles I take to mean using just a hot vinegar solution. That kills any bacteria that are needed for fermentation and which come naturally along with the vegetable. Fermenting is much simpler to do. My current method for pickling cukes is to use a solution of 25% apple cider vinegar + 75% distilled water + 3.5% salt by weight. Use Morton's pickling salt available at Walmart because it doesn't contain iodine (which could kill off the bacteria) or anti-caking compounds that can cloud the liquid. I think the vinegar is pasteurized (the grocer's cheap store brand), which might matter since any undesirable bacteria have been killed. I use distilled water for the same reason since I'm just learning the ropes and want to eliminate extraneous sources of contamination. I also sterilize the jars (empty 32 oz fruit preserves jars) with rubbing alcohol and then place them right side up in a sauce pan set on burner on low heat with about an inch of water just until the smell is gone (it's easier than placing the entire jar in boiling water). I've been combing the internet for pickling wisdom and most sites recommend against adding vinegar at all, but I like the added tang. It seems like mostly folk wisdom from what I can see, but they say the vinegar disrupts the natural progression of bacterial culture which results in a less complex taste (or maybe prevents any fermentation at all). I'm trying a jar with only brine and no vinegar next time to see.

So I make the vinegar + water + salt solution. Place 1 grape leaf in the bottom (from my back yard so it's pesticide free), which is a source of tannin that helps to keep the cukes crisp. Oak leaves or a tea bag might also work. Then 1 tsp corriander seeds + 4 crushed garlic cloves + 1 tsp dill seed. I'm trying dill weed instead of the seed this time. Next in go the cukes. Cut off the blossom end because it contains some kind of enzyme that softens them. I cut off 1/4" from both ends. Cut them lengthwise into 4 spears. Don't use salad type cukes. You need something like Kirby's because they contain less water. I can fit two per jar. I find everything I need at the local Patel Brothers Indian grocery. Freshness is important as well as firmness and freedom from blemishes. I just rinse them off with water. I've read that soaking them in ice water before hand also helps. But so far mine come out fairly crisp and they keep in the fridge for at least two weeks. After the cukes add another grape leaf, mainly to hold the cukes below the surface of the brine (which is important). Fill the jar with the brine to about 1/2" of the top. Install cap and place in a cupboard or cellar away from light, ideally at 70F. Check after 3-4 days for taste. As soon as they start to get a little soft move them to the fridge. The word is that cukes are more difficult than other veggies because they get soft and possibly moldy quicker. I haven't had this problem. We'll see when I try it without any vinegar. I've also tried cauliflower which turned out great. Also beets with fresh ginger. Carrots were pretty bland. You can try other kinds of herbs as flavoring. BTW it's normal for the garlic to turn a deep blue color. I toss them but I've read they are still edible. It sounds like a long procedure but I can do 4 jars in about 1/2 hour.
 
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I know I would benefit from eating and drinking less and abstaining several hours before bedtime. Amazingly the pickles seem to have provided some recourse from that difficult situation.

Back when I tried fermented veggies, carrots mostly, and didn't seem to tolerate them. If you don't mind my asking, do you make refrigerator pickles, the kind that keep in the fridge for a couple months? I'm always looking for ways to help my gut. Things are good and under control presently, but I do like pickles and if I eat them I usually get indigestion.

Glad to share. What you call refridgerator pickles I take to mean using just a hot vinegar solution. That kills any bacteria that are needed for fermentation and which come naturally along with the vegetable. Fermenting is much simpler to do. My current method for pickling cukes is to use a solution of 25% apple cider vinegar + 75% distilled water + 3.5% salt by weight. Use Morton's pickling salt available at Walmart because it doesn't contain iodine (which could kill off the bacteria) or anti-caking compounds that can cloud the liquid. I think the vinegar is pasteurized (the grocer's cheap store brand), which might matter since any undesirable bacteria have been killed. I use distilled water for the same reason since I'm just learning the ropes and want to eliminate extraneous sources of contamination. I also sterilize the jars (empty 32 oz fruit preserves jars) with rubbing alcohol and then place them right side up in a sauce pan set on burner on low heat with about an inch of water just until the smell is gone (it's easier than placing the entire jar in boiling water). I've been combing the internet for pickling wisdom and most sites recommend against adding vinegar at all, but I like the added tang. It seems like mostly folk wisdom from what I can see, but they say the vinegar disrupts the natural progression of bacterial culture which results in a less complex taste (or maybe prevents any fermentation at all). I'm trying a jar with only brine and no vinegar next time to see.

So I make the vinegar + water + salt solution. Place 1 grape leaf in the bottom (from my back yard so it's pesticide free), which is a source of tannin that helps to keep the cukes crisp. Oak leaves or a tea bag might also work. Then 1 tsp corriander seeds + 4 crushed garlic cloves + 1 tsp dill seed. I'm trying dill weed instead of the seed this time. Next in go the cukes. Cut off the blossom end because it contains some kind of enzyme that softens them. I cut off 1/4" from both ends. Cut them lengthwise into 4 spears. Don't use salad type cukes. You need something like Kirby's because they contain less water. I can fit two per jar. I find everything I need at the local Patel Brothers Indian grocery. Freshness is important as well as firmness and freedom from blemishes. I just rinse them off with water. I've read that soaking them in ice water before hand also helps. But so far mine come out fairly crisp and they keep in the fridge for at least two weeks. After the cukes add another grape leaf, mainly to hold the cukes below the surface of the brine (which is important). Fill the jar with the brine to about 1/2" of the top. Install cap and place in a cupboard or cellar away from light, ideally at 70F. Check after 3-4 days for taste. As soon as they start to get a little soft move them to the fridge. The word is that cukes are more difficult than other veggies because they get soft and possibly moldy quicker. I haven't had this problem. We'll see when I try it without any vinegar. I've also tried cauliflower which turned out great. Also beets with fresh ginger. Carrots were pretty bland. You can try other kinds of herbs as flavoring. BTW it's normal for the garlic to turn a deep blue color. I toss them but I've read they are still edible. It sounds like a long procedure but I can do 4 jars in about 1/2 hour.

Thank-you. Looks similar to what I was finding at online recipes. But I can't do garlic, sadly, much as I love it.

I'll give this thing a whirl soon enough.
 
...

Thank-you. Looks similar to what I was finding at online recipes. But I can't do garlic, sadly, much as I love it.

I'll give this thing a whirl soon enough.

Best of luck to you. I'm just so pleased at how they got rid of my acid reflux so I don't need to worry anymore about getting a good nights sleep.
 
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