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"Protester" Misconduct Catch All Thread

Derec

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Thread inspired by the police misconduct thread. Which has lately degenerated into complaining about the Weimar Republic and about suspects being released on bail. But I digress.

Let me start with this: an armed suspect gets shot in Omaha, leading to riots.

Fatal shooting of a man by Omaha police sparks protest outside police headquarters

Omaha World-Herald said:
Police said Friday in a press release that Jones reached for a gun that he had in his waistband before he was shot.
Peyton Zyla, a ProBLAC organizer, said that “until (police) prove that they didn’t murder a Black man, we’re not shutting up — not one bit.”
Guilty until proven innocent?
The protest began about 6 p.m., and as the evening continued, tensions escalated.
Scanner traffic indicated that something was thrown, prompting police to declare the protest an unlawful assembly at 9 p.m. At its height, the crowd numbered about 60 people. The crowd dispersed just before 10 p.m.
Police arrested one woman on suspicion of destruction of property and disorderly conduct and a man on suspicion of third degree assault on an officer and carrying a concealed weapon, according to the Omaha Police Department. Police said officers cited two people on suspicion of disorderly conduct and another on suspicion of obstructing an officer.

Waiting for the usual suspects on here to try to explain how assaulting police officers and destruction of property are justified ...

What led to the shooting, you might ask?
The backseat passenger, later identified as Jones, can be seen moving around as the officers walked toward the car. The officers yelled three times for everyone to put up their hands.
Police said that four people were in the car and that everyone except Jones complied by putting their hands outside the car windows.
The officer who was on the car’s driver’s side tried to open Jones’ door several times while yelling at him to “open the door!” The officer then used his flashlight to break the car window to get the door open. The officer then yelled to Jones to “get out of the car!”
[...]
The cruiser camera shows the officers struggling to get Jones out of the vehicle. Once Jones was out, an officer can be heard saying, “Keep your hands where I can see them!” The officer then says, “Watch his right hand! He’s digging! He’s digging! He’s got a gun! He’s got a gun!”
The officer yelled: “Gun! Gun! Gun!”
Moments later, an officer fired four shots. Police said Jones fell to the ground and continued moving as the officers yelled for him to “show his hands.”
[...]
A Springfield .45-caliber handgun, with a round in the chamber, was found on the ground underneath Jones.

Seems like an open and shut case of a justified shooting. Doesn't warrant any protesting, much less rioting.

What do we know about the dead guy?
Jones was released from the Nebraska Department of Corrections in 2018 after serving time for being a felon in possession of a deadly weapon, police said.

Uh-huh.

And kudos to Omaha World Herald for actually using a mug shot. Most news media these days will ignore mug shots (of dead black suspects at least) and use family provided photos, preferably with small children, instead.
 

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For the sophomore entry, let's go to the perennial hotspot for rioting and wanton vandalism: Portlandia.

City leaders, neighbors decry vandalism to Portland businesses

KOIN said:
Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler released a statement Saturday denouncing the the widespread vandalism that took place the night before in multiple areas of the city.
While one group was reported to have caused damage to spots downtown, a group of about 50 people gathered at NE Halsey Street and NE 52nd Avenue before beginning a long streak of vandalism up and down NE Sandy Boulevard.
The Portland Police Bureau said 27 businesses or work spaces were damaged along Sandy.
Ted Wheeler made a critical mistake to not go after these rioters back in the Summer. Appeasing them did not work. It just emboldened them, and now they are making Portland into something resembling Mad Max.

But what is their excuse to riot this time? Apparently it had to do with some transgender person committing suicide, and the rioters thinking it must have been murder without any evidence of foul play.
Crews clean up damage after protest in NE Portland’s Hollywood District

Oregon Live said:
Demonstrators also spray-painted several names and messages on windows and buildings, including the words “Black trans lives matter” and the name of Tete Gulley, a Black trans woman. Friday was Transgender Day of Remembrance, which honors and memorializes trans people who were killed or who have died by suicide.
Gulley was found dead in Rocky Butte Park last year. The medical examiner’s office initially ruled her death a suicide, but police later opened an investigation after multiple requests from her family, who don’t believe she committed suicide.
The Hollywood Theatre on Sandy was spray-painted with Gulley’s name. In a statement Saturday on social media accompanied by a photo of the building, the theater said, “Don’t be upset by graffiti; be angered by injustice.” Letters in the theater’s marquee spelled out the words, “Black Lives Matter.”

Why is it that left-wing radicals think only white, straight cis-men ever commit suicide?
 

Gospel

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Ok so the police pulled over someone for a Traffic violation and an occupant of the car felt the need to shoot them thus warranting the police yelling stop reaching as they approached the car for the traffic stop. yup, it clicks all the right buttons.
 

Derec

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Ok so the police pulled over someone for a Traffic violation and an occupant of the car felt the need to shoot them thus warranting the police yelling stop reaching as they approached the car for the traffic stop. yup, it clicks all the right buttons.

He had an illegal gun, being a felon in the possession of a .45. That made him squirrely, thus suspicious, thus non-compliant, thus trying to shoot it out. I don't see the scenario as being implausible.
 

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Yeah, I'm sure his "squirrely" behavior had nothing to do with wanting to hide the gun. And it was a traffic stop so, yelling everyone show me your hands for a traffic stop is legit.
 

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Just because they are protesting something that wasn't wrong doesn't really make it protester misconduct.
 

Derec

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Just because they are protesting something that wasn't wrong doesn't really make it protester misconduct.

It does when they throw stuff at/assault police and destroy property, as was mentioned in the article I quoted from.
 

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Thread inspired by the police misconduct thread. Which has lately degenerated into complaining about the Weimar Republic...

Probably because people like you complain incessantly whenever people disobey police.
 

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The usual suspects cannot comprehend why anyone would not automatically
accept the police version of events, and conclude the alleged civilian culprits or victims deserved their fate.
 

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Does it really need to be explained why police should be held to a higher standard than protesters?
 

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Looks like that as of today, Police misconduct is winning over Protester misconduct 331 to 12 (including this post).
And four of the twelve are from Derec,
 

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The usual suspects cannot comprehend why anyone would not automatically
accept the police version of events, and conclude the alleged civilian culprits or victims deserved their fate.

The problem is they don't wait to find out one way or the other, they just assume it's wrongful. The more they do it the less credibility they have.
 

Angry Floof

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The usual suspects cannot comprehend why anyone would not automatically
accept the police version of events, and conclude the alleged civilian culprits or victims deserved their fate.

The problem is they don't wait to find out one way or the other, they just assume it's wrongful. The more they do it the less credibility they have.

No, we assume cops act according to cop culture. There are exceptions, but they all "fit the description." They've dehumanized anyone who's not a cop, other than maybe rich people and conservative politicians. Sure, there are some cops who don't view citizens as vermin, but they are irrelevant to the problem.

We demand that the people with the power and the weapons to brutalize almost anyone, and who do so on a regular basis, especially now and over the last four years as their authority figure has given them permission from the highest office in the land, be held to the strictest and highest standards possible. In this country, we hold poor and powerless people accountable at the level we should be holding police and politicians and corporations accountable. We've got it backwards, and those of us who do not lick boots will continue to scrutinize every even mildly violent thing cops do until they are held accountable to a degree befitting the power they hold and the trust the public needs to have in them.

Everyone makes assumptions with every case we hear about. The only difference is your assumptions fall on the wrong side of history.
 

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The usual suspects cannot comprehend why anyone would not automatically
accept the police version of events, and conclude the alleged civilian culprits or victims deserved their fate.

The problem is they don't wait to find out one way or the other, they just assume it's wrongful.
True. But how is the substantially different from those who automatically take the police's version of events as gospel?
 

Angry Floof

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The usual suspects cannot comprehend why anyone would not automatically
accept the police version of events, and conclude the alleged civilian culprits or victims deserved their fate.

The problem is they don't wait to find out one way or the other, they just assume it's wrongful.
True. But how is the substantially different from those who automatically take the police's version of events as gospel?

As I said, the only difference is some of us err on the side of people who do not have badges or the state backing them up.
 

Derec

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Looks like that as of today, Police misconduct is winning over Protester misconduct 331 to 12 (including this post).
And four of the twelve are from Derec,

The police one has been going for months.
It's not a post count contest in any case.
 

Derec

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No, we assume cops act according to cop culture. There are exceptions, but they all "fit the description." They've dehumanized anyone who's not a cop, other than maybe rich people and conservative politicians. Sure, there are some cops who don't view citizens as vermin, but they are irrelevant to the problem.

You have an irrational hatred of police.

We demand that the people with the power and the weapons to brutalize almost anyone, and who do so on a regular basis, especially now and over the last four years as their authority figure has given them permission from the highest office in the land, be held to the strictest and highest standards possible.
Police are not "brutalizing" people on a "regular basis". And police should not be held to an unreasonable standard.

In this country, we hold poor and powerless people accountable at the level we should be holding police and politicians and corporations accountable.

Everybody should be held accountable. The thing is, you want police to be judged guilty even if they do nothing wrong.
At the same time, you do not think thugs running around with illegal guns is a big deal, when vast majority of people killed in this country are killed by the likes of Kenneth Jones and not by the likes of Dan Faulkner or Richard Martier.

Everyone makes assumptions with every case we hear about. The only difference is your assumptions fall on the wrong side of history.

I really don't think your anti-police BS is going to be the "right side of history".
 

Derec

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Does it really need to be explained why police should be held to a higher standard than protesters?
I would be happy with so-called "protesters" being held to some standard at all. If you steal or destroy property you are not a "protester" but a common criminal and should be treated as such.
 

Derec

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The usual suspects cannot comprehend why anyone would not automatically
accept the police version of events, and conclude the alleged civilian culprits or victims deserved their fate.

Do you have any reason to believe that the police version is wrong?

And it's not a matter of "deserving". Police shooting people is not a punishment. It's a reaction to a threat. When you have a weapon on you, and resist or otherwise refuse to comply, then that is a very dangerous situation for the cops, and you have a high likelihood of getting shot.
Jones could have easily avoided his death. He should not have had the gun in the first place. He should have complied, even if that meant he was going back to pokey on yet another "felon in possession of a deadly weapon" charge. But he did not. He made choices, and those choices have consequences.
 

Angry Floof

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You have an irrational hatred of police.


Police are not "brutalizing" people on a "regular basis". And police should not be held to an unreasonable standard.

In this country, we hold poor and powerless people accountable at the level we should be holding police and politicians and corporations accountable.

Everybody should be held accountable. The thing is, you want police to be judged guilty even if they do nothing wrong.
At the same time, you do not think thugs running around with illegal guns is a big deal, when vast majority of people killed in this country are killed by the likes of Kenneth Jones and not by the likes of Dan Faulkner or Richard Martier.

Everyone makes assumptions with every case we hear about. The only difference is your assumptions fall on the wrong side of history.

I really don't think your anti-police BS is going to be the "right side of history".

Sucking up to police against protesters is ALWAYS the wrong side of history. Grow a conscience and hold power accountable.
 

Derec

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Sucking up to police against protesters is ALWAYS the wrong side of history.
Because protesters are always in the right?
stop-the-steal-facebook.jpg

Besides, I am not talking about protesters here. Protesting is a right, even if their aims and positions are extremely wrong, like #BLMers and Trumpers alike. In this thread, I am taking aim at those who engage in looting, rioting, arson etc. for political purposes, for example anti-police extremism.
 

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The usual suspects cannot comprehend why anyone would not automatically
accept the police version of events, and conclude the alleged civilian culprits or victims deserved their fate.

Do you have any reason to believe that the police version is wrong?
My point is that until any "version" is independently verified, there is reason for skepticism.
[
And it's not a matter of "deserving"....
And yet, the kneejerk defenders of police shooting routinely trot out the irrelevant records of the victims in order to characterize them as "thugs" or bad people. Your response is a perfect example. Whether or not someone "should have" is not an issue. The issues are whether the shooting
1) could have reasonably been avoided,
2) is justified in the eyes of the community, and
3) should be justified through the legal system.

Of course Mr, Jones could have avoided being killed by changing his choices and actions just like the police could have avoided killing Mr. Jones by changing their choices and actions. Funny how that second part never crops up from the kneejerk defenders of the police.
 

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Does it really need to be explained why police should be held to a higher standard than protesters?
I would be happy with so-called "protesters" being held to some standard at all. If you steal or destroy property you are not a "protester" but a common criminal and should be treated as such.

I would be happy if you held rioters and looters separate from protesters. Once you riot or loot you've broken the law and are no longer a peaceful protester. Saying that all protesters should be held to the account of the rioters and looters is the same as saying all cops are corrupt because of the few amongst them. The way you currently seem to view the protesters gives the illusion you understand why people would mix good cops up with the bad ones.

Edit: And yes you basically separated protesters from rioters here but that's not the case with you a majority of the time.
 

Loren Pechtel

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The usual suspects cannot comprehend why anyone would not automatically
accept the police version of events, and conclude the alleged civilian culprits or victims deserved their fate.

The problem is they don't wait to find out one way or the other, they just assume it's wrongful. The more they do it the less credibility they have.

No, we assume cops act according to cop culture. There are exceptions, but they all "fit the description." They've dehumanized anyone who's not a cop, other than maybe rich people and conservative politicians. Sure, there are some cops who don't view citizens as vermin, but they are irrelevant to the problem.

We demand that the people with the power and the weapons to brutalize almost anyone, and who do so on a regular basis, especially now and over the last four years as their authority figure has given them permission from the highest office in the land, be held to the strictest and highest standards possible. In this country, we hold poor and powerless people accountable at the level we should be holding police and politicians and corporations accountable. We've got it backwards, and those of us who do not lick boots will continue to scrutinize every even mildly violent thing cops do until they are held accountable to a degree befitting the power they hold and the trust the public needs to have in them.

Everyone makes assumptions with every case we hear about. The only difference is your assumptions fall on the wrong side of history.

The reality is that most of the cases that people are protesting about are completely legitimate.
 

Loren Pechtel

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The usual suspects cannot comprehend why anyone would not automatically
accept the police version of events, and conclude the alleged civilian culprits or victims deserved their fate.

The problem is they don't wait to find out one way or the other, they just assume it's wrongful.
True. But how is the substantially different from those who automatically take the police's version of events as gospel?

Have an open mind--wait for the facts! A black person dead at police hands isn't enough to prove misconduct. Same as His Flatulence screaming about voter fraud doesn't make it so.
 

Loren Pechtel

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Police are not "brutalizing" people on a "regular basis". And police should not be held to an unreasonable standard.

Actually, it looks like they are--but BLM is so obsessed with shootings that they miss the real problem.

The real problem is the George Floyds. Most of the time it doesn't result in provable, lasting injury and gets ignored, but that doesn't mean the problem isn't real.
 

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Police are not "brutalizing" people on a "regular basis". And police should not be held to an unreasonable standard.

Actually, it looks like they are--but BLM is so obsessed with shootings that they miss the real problem.

The real problem is the George Floyds. Most of the time it doesn't result in provable, lasting injury and gets ignored, but that doesn't mean the problem isn't real.

Whatever it is, it’s not systemic. Given the millions of police interactions in a year, a few bad incidents is to be expected. No one is 100% all the time.
 

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True. But how is the substantially different from those who automatically take the police's version of events as gospel?

Have an open mind--wait for the facts!
That is non-responsive to my observation. The kneejerk defenders of the police do not wait for the facts.
[
A black person dead at police hands isn't enough to prove misconduct.
It is an indication of possible misconduct.
 

Loren Pechtel

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That is non-responsive to my observation. The kneejerk defenders of the police do not wait for the facts.
[
A black person dead at police hands isn't enough to prove misconduct.
It is an indication of possible misconduct.

It's a reason for an investigation, not a reason for a protest. See what the investigation turns up.
 

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That is non-responsive to my observation. The kneejerk defenders of the police do not wait for the facts.
[
A black person dead at police hands isn't enough to prove misconduct.
It is an indication of possible misconduct.

It's a reason for an investigation, not a reason for a protest. See what the investigation turns up.

The old "ask politely and we might hold cops accountable."
 

Loren Pechtel

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Police are not "brutalizing" people on a "regular basis". And police should not be held to an unreasonable standard.

Actually, it looks like they are--but BLM is so obsessed with shootings that they miss the real problem.

The real problem is the George Floyds. Most of the time it doesn't result in provable, lasting injury and gets ignored, but that doesn't mean the problem isn't real.

Whatever it is, it’s not systemic. Given the millions of police interactions in a year, a few bad incidents is to be expected. No one is 100% all the time.

Except you have no evidence for your claim. It's obviously widespread enough that police feel comfortable doing it in front of other police.
 

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That is non-responsive to my observation. The kneejerk defenders of the police do not wait for the facts.
[
A black person dead at police hands isn't enough to prove misconduct.
It is an indication of possible misconduct.

It's a reason for an investigation, not a reason for a protest.
First, address the point that kneejerk defenders of the police do not wait for the facts. Second, are you under the delusion that independent investigations of police misconduct automatically occur?
 

Trausti

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Whatever it is, it’s not systemic. Given the millions of police interactions in a year, a few bad incidents is to be expected. No one is 100% all the time.

Except you have no evidence for your claim. It's obviously widespread enough that police feel comfortable doing it in front of other police.

Wut? You're saying there's a police policy to purposefully harm people? In the Floyd case, the cops actually followed their training exactly. If you think it's systemic, show your evidence (not just hand waiving and conspiracy theories).
 

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I only skimmed the thread, which seems misnamed. Has  Charlottesville_car_attack been mentioned? With 1 civilian death and 19 injuries, it should top the list of '"Protestor" misconduct.' No?

... But I digress.
What I do, after accidentally writing irrelevancies, is to highlight the unwanted digression and press Backspace or just Space. Have you tried this on your device?
 

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Whatever it is, it’s not systemic. Given the millions of police interactions in a year, a few bad incidents is to be expected. No one is 100% all the time.

Except you have no evidence for your claim. It's obviously widespread enough that police feel comfortable doing it in front of other police.

Wut? You're saying there's a police policy to purposefully harm people? In the Floyd case, the cops actually followed their training exactly.
First they did not. Second, if you actually thought about your response, you are claiming that the police are trained to purposely harm people because it should be obvious that kneeling on a person's neck is harmful.
 

Loren Pechtel

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Whatever it is, it’s not systemic. Given the millions of police interactions in a year, a few bad incidents is to be expected. No one is 100% all the time.

Except you have no evidence for your claim. It's obviously widespread enough that police feel comfortable doing it in front of other police.

Wut? You're saying there's a police policy to purposefully harm people? In the Floyd case, the cops actually followed their training exactly. If you think it's systemic, show your evidence (not just hand waiving and conspiracy theories).

Yes and no--you're no doubt referring to that previously being an acceptable restraint.

What you are missing is they had no reason to do that at all, there was no reason to take him out of the car and hurt him. That was purely punitive.
 

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I read the article you linked. Where does it say these alleged criminals are protesting against Thanksgiving?

The article had photos of the vandalism. Did you read the graffiti? And ponder what day it was yesterday? Does everything need to be spoon-fed to you like you are a preschooler?

Example:
750abbc0-afe8-4fdb-b17f-4cef5ea31672_1140x641.jpg
 

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I read the article you linked. Where does it say these alleged criminals are protesting against Thanksgiving?

The article had photos of the vandalism. Did you read the graffiti? And ponder what day it was yesterday? Does everything need to be spoon-fed to you like you are a preschooler?

Example:
View attachment 30512
Given the number of "false flag protesters", a rational disinterested adult would hesitate to jump to a conclusion on such scant evidence.
 

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Given the number of "false flag protesters", a rational disinterested adult would hesitate to jump to a conclusion on such scant evidence.

There have been some false flags, but they have been few and far between compared to genuine "protester" violence.
They arrested three of the vandals (and released them without bail - typical Portlandia!) They do not look like Proud Bois doing false flag stuff but rather like actual Antifas.
1510935.jpg1510936.jpg1510939.jpg
 

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Given the number of "false flag protesters", a rational disinterested adult would hesitate to jump to a conclusion on such scant evidence.

There have been some false flags, but they have been few and far between compared to genuine "protester" violence.
They arrested three of the vandals (and released them without bail - typical Portlandia!) They do not look like Proud Bois doing false flag stuff but rather like actual Antifas.
View attachment 30514View attachment 30515View attachment 30516
"Look like"? Most people when they find themselves in a hole, stop digging.

Why do some people feel the need to jump so quickly to conclusions.
 

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There have been some false flags, but they have been few and far between compared to genuine "protester" violence.
They arrested three of the vandals (and released them without bail - typical Portlandia!) They do not look like Proud Bois doing false flag stuff but rather like actual Antifas.
View attachment 30514View attachment 30515View attachment 30516

They look more like Sad Sacks to me which means they are probably Proud Boys false flagging.
 

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Right-wingers continue to be arrested for violence against Biden supporters and at BLM protests

This thread was looking like another total fail, so I thought I'd help it out. Good thing "Protester" is in scare quotes in the thread title, right?

Trump and sycophants ramp up the violence against Biden supporters and at BLM protests, claim election was stolen from them

Donald Trump has continually claimed the leftist-anarchist network Antifa is behind the initial burning of buildings and other violence in protests over police killings of African Americans. Trump has claimed Antifa was a terrorist organization, wrongly and cynically saying the largely anarchistic movement that has existed in some form since at least the 1970s was operated by Democrats.

But it’s more likely that those who have nothing to do with Antifa — especially far-right Trump supporters — have been doing much of the violence at protests and other places, according to numerous media reports.
 

Derec

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This thread was looking like another total fail,
Only in your mind.

so I thought I'd help it out. Good thing "Protester" is in scare quotes in the thread title, right?
Nobody here, least of all me, is defending violence committed by Proud Boys et al.
But it is you and several others who always deny or defend violence committed by #BLM, Antifa and others.


Some blogger at Medium said:
Donald Trump has continually claimed the leftist-anarchist network Antifa is behind the initial burning of buildings and other violence in protests over police killings of African Americans. Trump has claimed Antifa was a terrorist organization, wrongly and cynically saying the largely anarchistic movement that has existed in some form since at least the 1970s was operated by Democrats.

But it’s more likely that those who have nothing to do with Antifa — especially far-right Trump supporters — have been doing much of the violence at protests and other places, according to numerous media reports.

This Kevin Shay guy is doing the same as you have been doing - deny all left-wing violence and insist it must all be due to right-wing false flags.
In reality both groups have engaged in violence and pox on both their houses!
 
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