Putin's invasion force on Ukrainian border

[Copernicus]

Putin is now amassing an invasion force on the border of Ukraine, although nobody seems to know what his intentions are. He could just be looking for a distraction from sagging popularity ratings, or maybe he wants to rattle sabers as a way of building leverage against impending sanctions in retaliation for his past cyberattacks on the US. One of my Russian friends suggested to me that he would likely ramp up anti-Ukraine propaganda for at least a week on Russian TV news shows before a real attack. The Ukrainians are very concerned, and President Zelensky visited the front days ago with a CNN reporter.

See Ukraine's President heads to the trenches as Russia masses its troops

Any thoughts on what will happen, if he does start a new invasion? My guess is that he will try to secure a land corridor to Crimea and annex some of the area that he refers to as  Novorossiya. However, he risks a lot by setting out on such a dangerous path. The Western alliance won't risk a nuclear war, but there are a lot of other unpleasant consequences that he could face.

 

[barbos]

Putin is now amassing an invasion force on the border of Ukraine, although nobody seems to know what his intentions are. He could just be looking for a distraction from sagging popularity ratings, or maybe he wants to rattle sabers as a way of building leverage against impending sanctions in retaliation for his past cyberattacks on the US. One of my Russian friends suggested to me that he would likely ramp up anti-Ukraine propaganda for at least a week on Russian TV news shows before a real attack. The Ukrainians are very concerned, and President Zelensky visited the front days ago with a CNN reporter.

See Ukraine's President heads to the trenches as Russia masses its troops

It would have helped if CNN did not try to show Ukrainian tanks in Ukraine as Russian in Russia:
https://lenta.ru/news/2021/04/13/cnn_tanks/

That's not to say that there is no increase in activity on Russian side. There is no mystery as to why - Ukrainian side started preparing for invasion into rebel republics.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Putin is now amassing an invasion force on the border of Ukraine, although nobody seems to know what his intentions are. He could just be looking for a distraction from sagging popularity ratings, or maybe he wants to rattle sabers as a way of building leverage against impending sanctions in retaliation for his past cyberattacks on the US. One of my Russian friends suggested to me that he would likely ramp up anti-Ukraine propaganda for at least a week on Russian TV news shows before a real attack. The Ukrainians are very concerned, and President Zelensky visited the front days ago with a CNN reporter.

See Ukraine's President heads to the trenches as Russia masses its troops

It would have helped if CNN did not try to show Ukrainian tanks in Ukraine as Russian in Russia:
https://lenta.ru/news/2021/04/13/cnn_tanks/

That's not to say that there is no increase in activity on Russian side. There is no mystery as to why - Ukrainian side started preparing for invasion into rebel republics.

Clearly defensive anti tank weapons should be sent to Ukraine immediately in order to reinforce the idea that a Russian invasion might not be wise. Everyone always states that Putin is this 3level chess player master plaster man. But yet all his actions just keep forcing Ukraine to the west. Bizarre. Hard to guess where WW3 will start first: somewhere in Eastern Europe or in Taiwan. Either way, the world is at great risk due to the desire for Russia and China to expand.

 

[barbos]

Putin is now amassing an invasion force on the border of Ukraine, although nobody seems to know what his intentions are. He could just be looking for a distraction from sagging popularity ratings, or maybe he wants to rattle sabers as a way of building leverage against impending sanctions in retaliation for his past cyberattacks on the US. One of my Russian friends suggested to me that he would likely ramp up anti-Ukraine propaganda for at least a week on Russian TV news shows before a real attack. The Ukrainians are very concerned, and President Zelensky visited the front days ago with a CNN reporter.

See Ukraine's President heads to the trenches as Russia masses its troops

It would have helped if CNN did not try to show Ukrainian tanks in Ukraine as Russian in Russia:
https://lenta.ru/news/2021/04/13/cnn_tanks/

That's not to say that there is no increase in activity on Russian side. There is no mystery as to why - Ukrainian side started preparing for invasion into rebel republics.

Clearly defensive anti tank weapons should be sent to Ukraine immediately in order to reinforce the idea that a Russian invasion might not be wise. Everyone always states that Putin is this 3level chess player master plaster man. But yet all his actions just keep forcing Ukraine to the west. Bizarre. Hard to guess where WW3 will start first: somewhere in Eastern Europe or in Taiwan. Either way, the world is at great risk due to the desire for Russia and China to expand.

What about Ukrainian regime with their "Promise russians (in Crimea) anything, we will hang them later" strategy? Where do you think it should have forced them?

 

[DrZoidberg]

I'm taking bets for WW3. Who bets against and who is for?

 

[Harry Bosch]

Clearly defensive anti tank weapons should be sent to Ukraine immediately in order to reinforce the idea that a Russian invasion might not be wise. Everyone always states that Putin is this 3level chess player master plaster man. But yet all his actions just keep forcing Ukraine to the west. Bizarre. Hard to guess where WW3 will start first: somewhere in Eastern Europe or in Taiwan. Either way, the world is at great risk due to the desire for Russia and China to expand.

What about Ukrainian regime with their "Promise russians (in Crimea) anything, we will hang them later" strategy? Where do you think it should have forced them?

Sorry, but I'm not following your post here. We should force Ukraine to do what?

Here's my issue: Russia bitches that everyone is moving out of their "zone of influence". But why are they doing this? Because Russia is a bully and is threatening them. Of course countries under threat are going to seek allies. Russia is to blame for losing their zone of influence. If they want better allies on their borders, treat your neighbors with respect and friendship. It's not rocket science.

 

[Jayjay]

Clearly defensive anti tank weapons should be sent to Ukraine immediately in order to reinforce the idea that a Russian invasion might not be wise. Everyone always states that Putin is this 3level chess player master plaster man. But yet all his actions just keep forcing Ukraine to the west. Bizarre. Hard to guess where WW3 will start first: somewhere in Eastern Europe or in Taiwan. Either way, the world is at great risk due to the desire for Russia and China to expand.

What about Ukrainian regime with their "Promise russians (in Crimea) anything, we will hang them later" strategy? Where do you think it should have forced them?

Ukraine's mistake was being too trusting. What they should have done since the 90s would have been to aggressively change the demographics of Crimea. But in all fairness, it's not easy these days, with democracy and human rights and stuff like that getting in the way.

 

[Tigers!]

Obviously preparing to invade for the May Day sales.

 

[untermensche]

Ukraine's mistake was being too trusting. What they should have done since the 90s would have been to aggressively change the demographics of Crimea. But in all fairness, it's not easy these days, with democracy and human rights and stuff like that getting in the way.

Yes.

Russian aggression is the fault of Ukrainian decency.

I had to rob that guy. He was so pleasant.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Clearly defensive anti tank weapons should be sent to Ukraine immediately in order to reinforce the idea that a Russian invasion might not be wise. Everyone always states that Putin is this 3level chess player master plaster man. But yet all his actions just keep forcing Ukraine to the west. Bizarre. Hard to guess where WW3 will start first: somewhere in Eastern Europe or in Taiwan. Either way, the world is at great risk due to the desire for Russia and China to expand.

What about Ukrainian regime with their "Promise russians (in Crimea) anything, we will hang them later" strategy? Where do you think it should have forced them?

Ukraine's mistake was being too trusting. What they should have done since the 90s would have been to aggressively change the demographics of Crimea. But in all fairness, it's not easy these days, with democracy and human rights and stuff like that getting in the way.

They probably shouldn't have gotten rid of their nukes.

 

[barbos]

I'm taking bets for WW3. Who bets against and who is for?

2 rubles on WW3 not happening.

 

[untermensche]

They probably shouldn't have gotten rid of their nukes.

They trusted Russia not to invade and trusted the US to help if Russia did.

Moral: Don't trust Russia or the US.

 

[barbos]

They probably shouldn't have gotten rid of their nukes.

They trusted Russia not to invade and trusted the US to help if Russia did.

Moral: Don't trust Russia or the US.

You do realize that Ukrainians would have sold these nukes to anyone who would pay? US knew that.
Most of the weapons they got from Soviet Union ended up in Africa and Middle East. And weapons they got from US was sold too. Ukraine got a good deal, they were paid $250bil, all they had to do was not to behave like total assholes and they failed at that.

 

[untermensche]

By 1996, Ukraine transferred all Soviet-era strategic warheads to Russia.

ICBM silos were destroyed by 2002, ICBMs were dismantled or transferred to Russia, and heavy bombers were eliminated by 2001.

https://www.nti.org/analysis/articles/ukraine-nuclear-disarmament/

 

[Copernicus]

Putin is now amassing an invasion force on the border of Ukraine, although nobody seems to know what his intentions are. He could just be looking for a distraction from sagging popularity ratings, or maybe he wants to rattle sabers as a way of building leverage against impending sanctions in retaliation for his past cyberattacks on the US. One of my Russian friends suggested to me that he would likely ramp up anti-Ukraine propaganda for at least a week on Russian TV news shows before a real attack. The Ukrainians are very concerned, and President Zelensky visited the front days ago with a CNN reporter.

See Ukraine's President heads to the trenches as Russia masses its troops

It would have helped if CNN did not try to show Ukrainian tanks in Ukraine as Russian in Russia:
https://lenta.ru/news/2021/04/13/cnn_tanks/

It is possible that the report by pro-Moscow reporter Zakharova on her Facebook page was correct that those were Ukrainian tanks in a Ukrainian train station. It is also possible that her report is just part of a Russian disinformation campaign. Zakharova never says which train station in Ukraine the video was taken at, only that there were Ukrainian train cars visible in the video. According to Ukrainian sources, 32 tanks, along with other heavy weapons, were delivered to Luhansk, inside of Ukraine. Those same train cars exist in Russian-occupied territories in eastern Ukraine. Both sides are not above propaganda exercises of that sort, but Russia has a history of putting out disinformation to discredit news stories that it finds embarrassing. Regardless of the merits of Zakharova's claim, the Russian buildup has been corroborated from multiple sources, and Russia admits that there is a buildup, claiming that it is just for a practice exercise.

That's not to say that there is no increase in activity on Russian side. There is no mystery as to why - Ukrainian side started preparing for invasion into rebel republics.

There were no reports and no evidence of such an invasion being prepared on the Ukrainian side. Obviously, it is not in Ukraine's interest to do that, since Russia can easily crush any such advance, and everyone knows that. You know it, too, and I suspect that there is no mystery for you either as to why there is a massive buildup on the border with Ukraine. Without Russian troops, the local Ukrainian rebel forces would have been overrun long ago and Ukraine's eastern border with Russia secured. It was Russian troops, not Ukrainian rebels, who established the current front lines in Ukraine.

I suspect that a lot of Russians do buy the TV propaganda about Ukraine being the aggressor here. It's a time-honored tradition in the history of war that the party starting a war blames the other side for starting it. Remember when Hitler retaliated against Poland's aggression before he was forced to invade Poland? Germany was caught with their pants down on that one and just barely managed to fight off the Polish cavalry. Now Ukraine is fixing to bully self-appointed Ukrainian rebels backed up by Russian troops.

Russia: Inside the Kremlin's military build-up along the Ukraine border

 

[barbos]

It is possible that the report by pro-Moscow reporter Zakharova

Your russian is not that good.

Obviously, it is not in Ukraine's interest to do that

All the more reason to do that.

https://iz.ru/1150806/2021-04-13/cnn-ubral-s-saita-foto-ukrainskikh-tankov-posle-kritiki-zakharovoi

CNN removed the video, apparently they agreed it was Ukraine preparing for war.

 

[Copernicus]

It is possible that the report by pro-Moscow reporter Zakharova

Your russian is not that good.

You have no way of knowing how good my Russian is. I don't claim native fluency, but it is good enough for what we've been discussing.

Obviously, it is not in Ukraine's interest to do that

All the more reason to do that.

https://iz.ru/1150806/2021-04-13/cnn-ubral-s-saita-foto-ukrainskikh-tankov-posle-kritiki-zakharovoi

CNN removed the video, apparently they agreed it was Ukraine preparing for war.

Usually, they print a retraction when they withdraw something. I wouldn't trust anything you see on Russian TV, especially regarding Ukraine. If CNN did remove the video, then it would be because it was misleading for the reasons Zakharova suggested, but that would in no way validate the false narrative that Ukraine is the aggressor here. There is plenty of documented evidence of the Russian buildup, and Russia isn't trying to hide it. This strikes me as similar to when Putin has someone assassinated. He does it in a way to terrorize and intimidate others. This buildup is to intimidate Ukraine and the West. Russians frequently call this kind of behavior провокация.

 

[barbos]

You have no way of knowing how good my Russian is.

From the link I gave you it's quite clear that Zacharova is not a pro-kremlin journalist but a a russian diplomat. A well known actually.
The fact that you don't know her speaks volume about your biases.

Usually, they print a retraction when they withdraw something.

Keyword here is "usually" And when it comes to Russia, CNN usually DOES NOT do retractions, it's pure propaganda.

This buildup is to intimidate Ukraine

More like warn Ukraine not to do something stupid.

third from the left.

 

[Copernicus]

From the link I gave you it's quite clear that Zacharova is not a pro-kremlin journalist but a a russian diplomat. A well known actually.
The fact that you don't know her speaks volume about your biases.

No,  Maria Zakharova is the pro-Kremlin Director of the Information and Press Department of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation, who has a long record of taking rather extreme positions, including some outstanding antisemitism and fake news (see "Controversies" section in Wikipedia). This just shows that, like most people outside of Russia, I don't know anything about her. It tells you nothing about my ability to speak, read, and understand Russian. Her post on Facebook did not identify the location in Ukraine for that video, so it may still just have been a conclusion that she jumped to. CNN may have retracted that particular video, but I've already posted other materials to corroborate the buildup, which both you and the Russian government acknowledge. The only dispute here is whether the Ukrainians are trying to provoke Russia or vice versa. I don't think that even you are naïve enough to believe that Ukraine is the main aggressor here, but, of course, I could be wrong.

Keyword here is "usually" And when it comes to Russia, CNN usually DOES NOT do retractions, it's pure propaganda.

That's just not true. I am quite a bit more familiar with CNN than you, and they do normally acknowledge retractions and corrections. I admit that the practice may be more unusual in Russia, so I can understand your cynicism.

This buildup is to intimidate Ukraine

More like warn Ukraine not to do something stupid.

Right. Like their insistence on locating their country right next door to yours. That was a dumb idea in the first place, and they have had centuries to realize that and move to a better location where the "little Russians" won't annoy the "great Russians" with their pretensions of being a different country.

third from the left.

Thanks for that photo. I am surprised that Secretary Kerry looks just as old as he did back when he was Barrack Obama's Secretary of State. Obviously, every American who speaks Russian should remember this photo.

 

[barbos]

Right. Like their insistence on locating their country right next door to yours

No, starting a new war with rebel republics. You see, CNN does not report when Ukrainians do shit, only when Russia reacts to the provocation.
And since you don't watch anything other than your side you get into troubles of not recognizing prominent figures such as Zacharova. I am not a big fan, she is a little bit dumb (not as dumb as Psaki) but she have had few dumb incidents.

That's just not true. I am quite a bit more familiar with CNN than you

Dude, I watch Anderson, Cuomo every fucking day, Lemon most of the time, and sometimes the rest like Smerkonish and simply news. CNN never, I repeat never offer alternative views when it comes to Russia and hence see to reason to retract. Why retract when nobody in US even knows that it needs to be retracted?
Has MSNBC retracted their Alfa Bank BS? Was incorrect translation of Putin words about interfering in US elections retracted? All I remember removing, not retracting.