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Rape victim ordered to pay her abuser child support

Arctish

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Talking to people isn't enough to tell how old they are but it's a necessary step in the process. Usually it's the first step.

I'm willing to go on record as saying that drunk 16 year olds are so unlikely to be able to conceal their youth that 5 minutes of conversation would be sufficient to reveal they're teenagers in >90% of cases, and flag the rest as 'immature or teenagers', no matter how hard they're trying to pass as adults.
 

Toni

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You can't always tell.

Online: "How many grandkids do you have?". I was 17.
Online, it is very difficult to determine someone's age. Even if they tell you their age, you have no way of determining whether or not that is at all accurate.

One very blatant example: From time to time in my area, police conduct stings for people who are soliciting sex from underage girls. A police officer will be on line, and pretend to be a 15 year old girl and then they arrest the guy who shows up at the meet spot for soliciting underage girl. Even though the police officer was likely a 45 year old man.
The claim was you can tell by talking to them for 5 minutes. I've also been mistaken for 50% older even in person.
I’m reporting what my son told me when he was in his mid 20’s.

Let’s face it: a lot of people looking for quick hook ups don’t bother with 5 minutes conversation.
 

Arctish

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You can't always tell.

Online: "How many grandkids do you have?". I was 17.
Online, it is very difficult to determine someone's age. Even if they tell you their age, you have no way of determining whether or not that is at all accurate.

One very blatant example: From time to time in my area, police conduct stings for people who are soliciting sex from underage girls. A police officer will be on line, and pretend to be a 15 year old girl and then they arrest the guy who shows up at the meet spot for soliciting underage girl. Even though the police officer was likely a 45 year old man.
The claim was you can tell by talking to them for 5 minutes. I've also been mistaken for 50% older even in person.
I’m reporting what my son told me when he was in his mid 20’s.

Let’s face it: a lot of people looking for quick hook ups don’t bother with 5 minutes conversation.
I think the guy in the OP, John Barnes, probably did have 5 minutes of conversation with Crysta Abelseth. How else would he have found out she didn't have a ride home or convinced her to let him give her one?

I think he simply didn't care that she looked and acted like a teenager. Caring about others doesn't seem to be his style. If he'd actually cared about her he would have taken her to her home and not had sex with her until he was sure he had actual, genuine consent.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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You can't always tell.

Online: "How many grandkids do you have?". I was 17.
Online, it is very difficult to determine someone's age. Even if they tell you their age, you have no way of determining whether or not that is at all accurate.

One very blatant example: From time to time in my area, police conduct stings for people who are soliciting sex from underage girls. A police officer will be on line, and pretend to be a 15 year old girl and then they arrest the guy who shows up at the meet spot for soliciting underage girl. Even though the police officer was likely a 45 year old man.
The claim was you can tell by talking to them for 5 minutes. I've also been mistaken for 50% older even in person.
You mean they thought you were so naive and uninformed that you had to be a teenager? ;)
 

Playball40

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Talking to people isn't enough to tell how old they are but it's a necessary step in the process. Usually it's the first step.

I'm willing to go on record as saying that drunk 16 year olds are so unlikely to be able to conceal their youth that 5 minutes of conversation would be sufficient to reveal they're teenagers in >90% of cases, and flag the rest as 'immature or teenagers', no matter how hard they're trying to pass as adults.
When I was 16, my best fried (also 16) was at a bar and had sex with a 27 year old man. That man turned out to be my government teacher (I was a junior in HS). I came to class Monday morning and couldn't look him in the eye.
 

Gospel

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Let’s face it: a lot of people looking for quick hook ups don’t bother with 5 minutes conversation.

Fa sho, and that's a choice they make (informed or uninformed) that amounts to a roll of the dice on whether or not they end up in the police department's interrogation room.
 

SIB

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PONCHATOULA- It's one of the most egregious cases victims' advocates tell the WBRZ Investigative Unit they have ever seen, after a judge awarded full custody to a woman's abuser and forced her to pay child support.

This story dates back decades and involves a woman who was raped at the age of 16 by a man almost twice her age.

Crysta Abelseth knows all too well about overcoming adversity. The now 32-year old is a mother of a teenager that WBRZ has made an editorial decision not to identify because she's a minor. Abelseth's daughter is the child of a rape.

Abelseth met John Barnes in the City of Hammond back in 2005. She says he offered to take her home after a night out at a local restaurant with friends.

"Instead of bringing me home, he brought me to his house," Abelseth recalled. "Once inside, he raped me on his living room couch."

Abelseth did not know Barnes before that night, but came away from it pregnant.

"When my daughter was five years old, he found out about her, and once he found out about her, he pursued custody and wanted to take her away from me," Abelseth said. "They granted him 50/50 custody despite the fact that [the child] was caused by rape."

A DNA test is part of court documents that proves with 99.97% accuracy, John Barnes is the child's father. Barnes was 30 years old and Abelseth 16 at the time of conception. The act was illegal at the time, even if it were consensual; Abelseth maintains it never was.

Seven years ago, in July 2015, Abelseth pressed criminal charges against Barnes. A report she filed with the Tangipahoa Parish Sheriff's Office for simple rape details everything that was done to her. Abelseth said she waited to file the police report because she did not know the law.

"I thought if I didn't do it the next day, there was nothing I could do about it," Abelseth said. "I went to a trauma counselor, and he said, 'No, you have 30 years after you turn 18.'"

From 2015 until now, nothing has happened with the report. The Tangipahoa Parish Sheriff's Office says an investigation is still open.

"It was never assigned to a detective, and nothing was ever investigated," according to Abelseth.

A search of John Barnes shows he owns Gumbeaux Digital Branding, a web company in Ponchatoula. Barnes' website shows Ponchatoula Police as a client.
16? doesn't that mean she is a minor? Worse case is he is a child sex offender? I guess worst really means least?
 

Emily Lake

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I think you have a regressive view of women as moral agents.
Not at all. I think Toni and I acknowledge that males and females actually, really, are different in some ways. Some of those ways are physical... some of those ways are emotional. Evolution doesn't give a fuck about morality.
 

Emily Lake

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My wife appeared underage when we met.
Yes, but presumably you TALKED to her before you slept with her.

Given how little English she had at that time that wouldn't be a reliable measure.
So... lemme get this straight. You met a person that you thought was underage, and had sex with that person without talking to them much because of a language barrier?

I suppose it's a good thing you ultimately married her.
 

Toni

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My wife appeared underage when we met.
Yes, but presumably you TALKED to her before you slept with her.

Given how little English she had at that time that wouldn't be a reliable measure.
So... lemme get this straight. You met a person that you thought was underage, and had sex with that person without talking to them much because of a language barrier?

I suppose it's a good thing you ultimately married her.
Or a very bad thing.*.

*Not really. I think Loren is a pretty good guy a d he and his wife love each other. But it is easy to see how that scenario could go very very badly if Loren were a bad person.
 
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laughing dog

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TomC said:
No.
In a thread where people consistently lie about me I don't remember the exact words of everything I said.
That is a blatant mischaracterization and a misuse of the term "lie".
TomC said:
So.
How did Abelseth get her drinks without lying?
She was served. Duh. That does not mean that the bartender necessarily thought she was 21. Duh.
TomC said:
Nevermind. I already understand that this whole thread is about demonstrating that women are weak willed vessels and men are sexual predators.
If a straw man is full of shit, is it still a straw man?
TomC said:
What actually happened in a pub, 16 years ago, isn't important. What matters is that feminists get their way.
Statutory rape and sexual abuse of a minor existed long before feminism.
TomC said:
I understand that. It's why I'm not a feminist.
If you don't want to be misinterpreted as a misogynist, you should stop imitating one.

This is a really good example of what I wad talking about in my last post.
Tom
Apparently, besides your misunderstanding of what constitutes a lie, you misunderstand what an example is .
 

Metaphor

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I think you have a regressive view of women as moral agents.
Not at all. I think Toni and I acknowledge that males and females actually, really, are different in some ways. Some of those ways are physical... some of those ways are emotional. Evolution doesn't give a fuck about morality.
Acknowledging that men and women are different does not mean that a 19 year old woman has no moral agency and can't make decisions for herself.
 

Loren Pechtel

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Talking to people isn't enough to tell how old they are but it's a necessary step in the process. Usually it's the first step.

I'm willing to go on record as saying that drunk 16 year olds are so unlikely to be able to conceal their youth that 5 minutes of conversation would be sufficient to reveal they're teenagers in >90% of cases, and flag the rest as 'immature or teenagers', no matter how hard they're trying to pass as adults.
90% isn't 100%. Most can easily be identified, but there will be outliers in both directions.

That's why I feel the law should be based on a reasonable verification of age rather than strict liability. We don't hold the bar or casino at fault if they're tricked by a fake ID, we simply expect them to check.
 

Toni

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I think you have a regressive view of women as moral agents.
Not at all. I think Toni and I acknowledge that males and females actually, really, are different in some ways. Some of those ways are physical... some of those ways are emotional. Evolution doesn't give a fuck about morality.
Acknowledging that men and women are different does not mean that a 19 year old woman has no moral agency and can't make decisions for herself.
It is not a question of moral authority. It’s a question of relative power deriving from disparities in maturity and experience.

This is less hard to understand if you consider that in the US, the legal drinking age is 21, and one us typically unable to rent a car or a hotel room or a vacation home until one is 25. This reflects recognition that a19 year old lacks the same capacity to make decisions as someone 5-10 years older. It also happens to be in accordance with brain development.

Are there ever successful relationships between a 19 year old and a 30 year old? Sure. And let me assure you, by successful relationship, I mean whether it lasts an hour or a year or a lifetime. But more often the two want vastly different things because they are at different stages of life.
 

Loren Pechtel

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My wife appeared underage when we met.
Yes, but presumably you TALKED to her before you slept with her.

Given how little English she had at that time that wouldn't be a reliable measure.
So... lemme get this straight. You met a person that you thought was underage, and had sex with that person without talking to them much because of a language barrier?

I suppose it's a good thing you ultimately married her.
I said she looked underage, not that she was--at the casinos she was assumed (as in "you can't be here", not "ID, please") underage into her late 40s. And I didn't say that we didn't talk much, I said that the language barrier meant that gauging age through conversation wouldn't work. In reality she was appreciably older than me and I knew it.
 

Toni

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Talking to people isn't enough to tell how old they are but it's a necessary step in the process. Usually it's the first step.

I'm willing to go on record as saying that drunk 16 year olds are so unlikely to be able to conceal their youth that 5 minutes of conversation would be sufficient to reveal they're teenagers in >90% of cases, and flag the rest as 'immature or teenagers', no matter how hard they're trying to pass as adults.
90% isn't 100%. Most can easily be identified, but there will be outliers in both directions.

That's why I feel the law should be based on a reasonable verification of age rather than strict liability. We don't hold the bar or casino at fault if they're tricked by a fake ID, we simply expect them to check.
Oh. Yes, bar owners ARE held responsible if they are caught serving underage customers. I assume it’s the same for casinos.
 

Loren Pechtel

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Talking to people isn't enough to tell how old they are but it's a necessary step in the process. Usually it's the first step.

I'm willing to go on record as saying that drunk 16 year olds are so unlikely to be able to conceal their youth that 5 minutes of conversation would be sufficient to reveal they're teenagers in >90% of cases, and flag the rest as 'immature or teenagers', no matter how hard they're trying to pass as adults.
90% isn't 100%. Most can easily be identified, but there will be outliers in both directions.

That's why I feel the law should be based on a reasonable verification of age rather than strict liability. We don't hold the bar or casino at fault if they're tricked by a fake ID, we simply expect them to check.
Oh. Yes, bar owners ARE held responsible if they are caught serving underage customers. I assume it’s the same for casinos.
Caught serving underage customers they haven't IDed. That's not the same as IDing and being presented with a convincing fake.
 

bilby

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Talking to people isn't enough to tell how old they are but it's a necessary step in the process. Usually it's the first step.

I'm willing to go on record as saying that drunk 16 year olds are so unlikely to be able to conceal their youth that 5 minutes of conversation would be sufficient to reveal they're teenagers in >90% of cases, and flag the rest as 'immature or teenagers', no matter how hard they're trying to pass as adults.
90% isn't 100%. Most can easily be identified, but there will be outliers in both directions.

That's why I feel the law should be based on a reasonable verification of age rather than strict liability. We don't hold the bar or casino at fault if they're tricked by a fake ID, we simply expect them to check.
Oh. Yes, bar owners ARE held responsible if they are caught serving underage customers. I assume it’s the same for casinos.
Caught serving underage customers they haven't IDed. That's not the same as IDing and being presented with a convincing fake.
The law may well be very different in Nevada, but around here the offence is "supplying alcohol to a minor". The existence of a convincing fake ID isn't a defence.

Though you could probably get the case dropped if the minor in question was able to use the same ID to convince the court that they were of legal age ;)
 

Arctish

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Arctish

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I think you have a regressive view of women as moral agents.
Not at all. I think Toni and I acknowledge that males and females actually, really, are different in some ways. Some of those ways are physical... some of those ways are emotional. Evolution doesn't give a fuck about morality.
Acknowledging that men and women are different does not mean that a 19 year old woman has no moral agency and can't make decisions for herself.
This discussion is about a 16 year old and the 30 year old who raped her. Whatever you think about the moral agency of 19 year olds isn't really relevant.
 

Gospel

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Talking to people isn't enough to tell how old they are but it's a necessary step in the process. Usually it's the first step.

I'm willing to go on record as saying that drunk 16 year olds are so unlikely to be able to conceal their youth that 5 minutes of conversation would be sufficient to reveal they're teenagers in >90% of cases, and flag the rest as 'immature or teenagers', no matter how hard they're trying to pass as adults.

Agreed. In my experience question like "what's your story?" was the most effective. If you have nothing but teen shit going on in your life it was easy to see. I can only speak for myself of course.
 

Toni

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Talking to people isn't enough to tell how old they are but it's a necessary step in the process. Usually it's the first step.

I'm willing to go on record as saying that drunk 16 year olds are so unlikely to be able to conceal their youth that 5 minutes of conversation would be sufficient to reveal they're teenagers in >90% of cases, and flag the rest as 'immature or teenagers', no matter how hard they're trying to pass as adults.
90% isn't 100%. Most can easily be identified, but there will be outliers in both directions.

That's why I feel the law should be based on a reasonable verification of age rather than strict liability. We don't hold the bar or casino at fault if they're tricked by a fake ID, we simply expect them to check.
Oh. Yes, bar owners ARE held responsible if they are caught serving underage customers. I assume it’s the same for casinos.
Caught serving underage customers they haven't IDed. That's not the same as IDing and being presented with a convincing fake.
Not in my area although possessing a fake ID is a separate can result in separate charges
 

Metaphor

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Talking to people isn't enough to tell how old they are but it's a necessary step in the process. Usually it's the first step.

I'm willing to go on record as saying that drunk 16 year olds are so unlikely to be able to conceal their youth that 5 minutes of conversation would be sufficient to reveal they're teenagers in >90% of cases, and flag the rest as 'immature or teenagers', no matter how hard they're trying to pass as adults.
90% isn't 100%. Most can easily be identified, but there will be outliers in both directions.

That's why I feel the law should be based on a reasonable verification of age rather than strict liability. We don't hold the bar or casino at fault if they're tricked by a fake ID, we simply expect them to check.
Oh. Yes, bar owners ARE held responsible if they are caught serving underage customers. I assume it’s the same for casinos.
Caught serving underage customers they haven't IDed. That's not the same as IDing and being presented with a convincing fake.
The law may well be very different in Nevada, but around here the offence is "supplying alcohol to a minor". The existence of a convincing fake ID isn't a defence.
Once again, you are incorrect. A convincing ID is a defence coded in statutory law in, for example, NSW.

(1) Selling liquor to minors A person must not sell liquor to a minor.
: Maximum penalty--100 penalty units or 12 months imprisonment (or both).

(2) Supplying liquor to minors on licensed premises A person must not supply liquor to a minor on licensed premises.
: Maximum penalty--100 penalty units or 12 months imprisonment (or both).

(3) It is a defence to a prosecution for an offence under subsection (1) or (2) if it is proved that--
(a) the person to whom the liquor was sold or supplied was of or above the age of 14 years, and

(b) before the liquor was sold or supplied to the person the defendant was provided with an evidence of age document that may reasonably be accepted as applying to the person and as proving that the person was of or above the age of 18 years.
As well as Queensland
230Defence to charge if age material

(1)If the age of a person is material to a charge of an offence against this Act, it is a defence to prove that, at the time of the offence, the defendant (if the defendant is the actual offender) or an agent or employee (if the defendant is charged merely because of being principal or employer of the actual offender)—
(a)honestly and reasonably believed that the person whose age is material to the offence had attained 18 years; or
(b)had sighted acceptable evidence of age of the person whose age is material to the offence that indicated the person had attained 18 years;
and the operation of section 24 of the Criminal Code is excluded.
 

Metaphor

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Once again, you are incorrect. A convincing ID is a defence coded in statutory law.

Source.
You must have quoted me immediately after I posted that (accidentally), as I was trying to paste my sources in.

The sources are now in the post.

bilby has now twice been wrong in two days about Queensland law, so I'm glad he's a bus driver and not a lawyer.
 
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