Real life example: Was I racially discriminated against?

[AthenaAwakened]

if she had not said they were looking for a non-white person to fill the position, would you still see it as discrimination?

If race is a factor in what she was looking for then it's discrimination, period. The races involved don't matter.

That's nice, but not what I asked you.

Try again

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Apparently your reading comprehension skills are lacking. She wanted an ASIAN on the board. Not only that, but you go into some bullshit strawman ad hom that literally has nothing to do with anything. Take your bullshit attitude elsewhere and stop trying to ruin my thread.

Ruin your thread is a tautology.

I don't believe the premise of your story to be factual. If you want to rephrase it as a hypothetical, it still has the same credibility issues and lack of verisimilitude, but gives you a pulpit from where you can claim you would have suffered discrimination, if such a thing had really happened.

So your response to crystal clear anti-white discrimination your response is to stick your head in the sand.

 

[ronburgundy]

If race is a factor in what she was looking for then it's discrimination, period. The races involved don't matter.

That's nice, but not what I asked you.

Try again

He answered what you asked. You just might not recognize it when people take a position on a principled basis that they consistently apply to all logically relevant variants of the situation. IT doesn't have the completely self-serving ideological bias and logical incoherence that you are more familiar with.

 

[Bronzeage]

Ruin your thread is a tautology.

I don't believe the premise of your story to be factual. If you want to rephrase it as a hypothetical, it still has the same credibility issues and lack of verisimilitude, but gives you a pulpit from where you can claim you would have suffered discrimination, if such a thing had really happened.

So your response to crystal clear anti-white discrimination your response is to stick your head in the sand.

I don't see anything crystal clear about this. If this contrived story is actually true, then it was discrimination. Now, tell me. Do you think it's true?

 

[AthenaAwakened]

That's nice, but not what I asked you.

Try again

He answered what you asked.

No, he did not.

You just might not recognize it when people take a position on a principled basis that they consistently apply to all logically relevant variants of the situation. IT doesn't have the completely self-serving ideological bias and logical incoherence that you are more familiar with.

Without the admission of the person doing the hiring, admitting, or whatever, would LOREN (since I was speaking directly to him) still see this situation as discrimination?

 

[prideandfall]

If this contrived story is actually true, then it was discrimination.

how? how is it discrimination?

i just added this bit to an older post of mine, let me repost it here:

in this country, there is a definite and undeniable fact that transcends questions of racial politics: ethnic minorities have a different experience with life in the US than whites do, on a fundamental and institutional level, in most if not all aspects of their day to day life - this means that ethnic minorities have an experience in this country that white people simply cannot understand or relate to (the best we can do is empathize with it), and that is quite frankly a unique qualification that no white person can ever have.
if you're running a marijuana store and you want to get input from different ethnic and cultural communities in order to have a broader understanding of how those communities interact with the various forces at work in such a business (ie: perceptions of pot, experience with the police, levels of anxiety about the idea of being able to purchase, etc), then simply being an ethnic minority and thus having lived through that experience is a valid and useful form of job qualification.
this can be a huge difference maker in something like the pot selling business, to have a better handle on how to address and communicate with assorted social and cultural groups who may be apprehensive about whether or not it's OK to buy pot.

let's just say as an example that the asian community in that city has... i don't know, a strong sense of cultural traditionalism that makes them consider pot to be improper (or whatever) - if you don't know that, you can't cater your advertising or outreach efforts to address the needs of that community, and what better way to get an handle on the individual community needs than by having someone on the board of the advocacy group that is more likely to be in tune with that experience?

 

[arkirk]

You mean you are now and have always been a pot head? Or is your interest only "academic?"

You don't need to be a "pothead" to run a cannabis business. Just like you don't need to be an alcoholic to run a winery or a drug addict to run a pharma company. I am an occasional user of cannabis.

What is the relevance of these questions?

If you don't know, then you were probably rightfully rejected for the position. I know people who railed against the "reefer madness" till a potential gravy train rolled into town and they smelled the money and jumped on board.

 

[Bronzeage]

If this contrived story is actually true, then it was discrimination.

how? how is it discrimination?

i just added this bit to an older post of mine, let me repost it here:

in this country, there is a definite and undeniable fact that transcends questions of racial politics: ethnic minorities have a different experience with life in the US than whites do, on a fundamental and institutional level, in most if not all aspects of their day to day life - this means that ethnic minorities have an experience in this country that white people simply cannot understand or relate to (the best we can do is empathize with it), and that is quite frankly a unique qualification that no white person can ever have.
if you're running a marijuana store and you want to get input from different ethnic and cultural communities in order to have a broader understanding of how those communities interact with the various forces at work in such a business (ie: perceptions of pot, experience with the police, levels of anxiety about the idea of being able to purchase, etc), then simply being an ethnic minority and thus having lived through that experience is a valid and useful form of job qualification.
this can be a huge difference maker in something like the pot selling business, to have a better handle on how to address and communicate with assorted social and cultural groups who may be apprehensive about whether or not it's OK to buy pot.

let's just say as an example that the asian community in that city has... i don't know, a strong sense of cultural traditionalism that makes them consider pot to be improper (or whatever) - if you don't know that, you can't cater your advertising or outreach efforts to address the needs of that community, and what better way to get an handle on the individual community needs than by having someone on the board of the advocacy group that is more likely to be in tune with that experience?

In the OP, it is purported that a person of Asian heritage was offered the job, but declined. Our friend Axulus heard about this opportunity and offered his services, but was turned down because he is white. That's his story and he is sticking to it. As he presents this scenario, it's a job which does not involve any cultural sensitivity. As with most cool story dude hypotheticals, we only have his version of the story, so we are left with only one plausible response.

This does not mean there are not other possible explanations. It is entirely possible his offer was declined for some other reason.

 

[Metaphor]

how? how is it discrimination?

It's discrimination by race. It doesn't get any plainer than that.

You are making a different argument. You are saying it doesn't matter if white people are discriminated against because of their race. But even if you're saying that's okay, it doesn't make it not-discrimination.

 

[prideandfall]

It's discrimination by race. It doesn't get any plainer than that.

how?

You are saying it doesn't matter if white people are discriminated against because of their race.

no, i'm not.

But even if you're saying that's okay, it doesn't make it not-discrimination.

i'm not, and the facts as presented thus far do not indicate that it is discrimination.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

In the mission statement of this advocacy group, does it state a commitment to diversity not only in its work but also in its makeup?

 

[fromderinside]

how? how is it discrimination?

i just added this bit to an older post of mine, let me repost it here:

in this country, there is a definite and undeniable fact that transcends questions of racial politics: ethnic minorities have a different experience with life in the US than whites do, on a fundamental and institutional level, in most if not all aspects of their day to day life - this means that ethnic minorities have an experience in this country that white people simply cannot understand or relate to (the best we can do is empathize with it), and that is quite frankly a unique qualification that no white person can ever have.
if you're running a marijuana store and you want to get input from different ethnic and cultural communities in order to have a broader understanding of how those communities interact with the various forces at work in such a business (ie: perceptions of pot, experience with the police, levels of anxiety about the idea of being able to purchase, etc), then simply being an ethnic minority and thus having lived through that experience is a valid and useful form of job qualification.
this can be a huge difference maker in something like the pot selling business, to have a better handle on how to address and communicate with assorted social and cultural groups who may be apprehensive about whether or not it's OK to buy pot.

let's just say as an example that the asian community in that city has... i don't know, a strong sense of cultural traditionalism that makes them consider pot to be improper (or whatever) - if you don't know that, you can't cater your advertising or outreach efforts to address the needs of that community, and what better way to get an handle on the individual community needs than by having someone on the board of the advocacy group that is more likely to be in tune with that experience?

In the OP, it is purported that a person of Asian heritage was offered the job, but declined. Our friend Axulus heard about this opportunity and offered his services, but was turned down because he is white. That's his story and he is sticking to it. As he presents this scenario, it's a job which does not involve any cultural sensitivity. As with most cool story dude hypotheticals, we only have his version of the story, so we are left with only one plausible response.

This does not mean there are not other possible explanations. It is entirely possible his offer was declined for some other reason.

Read Aluxus.

 

[Metaphor]

how?

Are you kidding?

Axulus was told he was ineligible for the job because of his race. Therefore, he was discriminated against because of his race.

If you don't think he was discriminated against by race, what would 'discriminating against by race' look like to you?

- - - Updated - - -

In the mission statement of this advocacy group, does it state a commitment to diversity not only in its work but also in its makeup?

You can't really think that would make it morally right, though?

If you had a mission statement that was 'committed to White purity in serving or customers and in our makeup', that wouldn't make it okay, would it?

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Are you kidding?

Axulus was told he was ineligible for the job because of his race. Therefore, he was discriminated against because of his race.

If you don't think he was discriminated against by race, what would 'discriminating against by race' look like to you?

- - - Updated - - -

In the mission statement of this advocacy group, does it state a commitment to diversity not only in its work but also in its makeup?

You can't really think that would make it morally right, though?

If you had a mission statement that was 'committed to White purity in serving or customers and in our makeup', that wouldn't make it okay, would it?

If you are trying out for the part of MLK in the SELMA movie and they turn you down because you are white and they are going for historical accuracy, that would not be discrimination.

If the stated purpose of a voluntary enterprise is to exemplify a particular ideal or practice and you decide to be a part of said enterprise, that means you are signing on with and agreeing to those stated purposes. If one of those purposes is to show diversity by having a diverse board and your addition would skew the stated purpose away from its goal, how are you being discriminated against?

You would read the mission statement and/or talk to the founding members of the group before applying, would you not? you would do your due diligence, correct?

 

[Axulus]

Are you kidding?

Axulus was told he was ineligible for the job because of his race. Therefore, he was discriminated against because of his race.

If you don't think he was discriminated against by race, what would 'discriminating against by race' look like to you?

- - - Updated - - -



You can't really think that would make it morally right, though?

If you had a mission statement that was 'committed to White purity in serving or customers and in our makeup', that wouldn't make it okay, would it?

If you are trying out for the part of MLK in the SELMA movie and they turn you down because you are white and they are going for historical accuracy, that would not be discrimination.

If the stated purpose of a voluntary enterprise is to exemplify a particular ideal or practice and you decide to be a part of said enterprise, that means you are signing on with and agreeing to those stated purposes. If one of those purposes is to show diversity by having a diverse board and your addition would skew the stated purpose away from its goal, how are you being discriminated against?

You would read the mission statement and/or talk to the founding members of the group before applying, would you not? you would do your due diligence, correct?

Your example is still racial discrimination, but it isn't a bad or negative kind. It is part of the job qualifications: "someone who looks sufficiently similar to MLK", and it is obviously an integral qualification for the job.

 

[BH]

I don't think they would hire a black man to play George Corley Wallace either or Sheriff Bull Connor.

 

[laughing dog]

Whether you believe me or not is ultimately irrelevant to the questions I ask - I stand by my experience as I've described it.

Interesting. When a black person stands by his/her experience of discrimination, many of the same people who rush to validate or confirm your discrimination dismiss their experience of discrimination.

I think your situation is interesting. There is nothing wrong with wanting a group that is diverse in background. In essence, enhancing that diversity is one of the qualifications in this case. If you agree that the diversity is a valid goal for this organization, I'd say you were not discriminating against based on race because, in essence, you were not a qualified candidate at that point.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So your response to crystal clear anti-white discrimination your response is to stick your head in the sand.

I don't see anything crystal clear about this. If this contrived story is actually true, then it was discrimination. Now, tell me. Do you think it's true?

You don't seem to have any basis for calling it contrived other than the fact that you don't believe it could happen.

- - - Updated - - -

He answered what you asked.

No, he did not.

You just might not recognize it when people take a position on a principled basis that they consistently apply to all logically relevant variants of the situation. IT doesn't have the completely self-serving ideological bias and logical incoherence that you are more familiar with.

Without the admission of the person doing the hiring, admitting, or whatever, would LOREN (since I was speaking directly to him) still see this situation as discrimination?

It would be but without the admission we probably wouldn't know.

 

[laughing dog]

I don't see anything crystal clear about this. If this contrived story is actually true, then it was discrimination. Now, tell me. Do you think it's true?

You don't seem to have any basis for calling it contrived other than the fact that you don't believe it could happen.

An example of meta-irony in action.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You don't need to be a "pothead" to run a cannabis business. Just like you don't need to be an alcoholic to run a winery or a drug addict to run a pharma company. I am an occasional user of cannabis.

What is the relevance of these questions?

If you don't know, then you were probably rightfully rejected for the position. I know people who railed against the "reefer madness" till a potential gravy train rolled into town and they smelled the money and jumped on board.

A pothead would be unlikely to be good at running a business, period.

- - - Updated - - -

In the mission statement of this advocacy group, does it state a commitment to diversity not only in its work but also in its makeup?

"Commitment to diversity" usually is a PC buzzword for discriminates against white males.

- - - Updated - - -

Whether you believe me or not is ultimately irrelevant to the questions I ask - I stand by my experience as I've described it.

Interesting. When a black person stands by his/her experience of discrimination, many of the same people who rush to validate or confirm your discrimination dismiss their experience of discrimination.

I think your situation is interesting. There is nothing wrong with wanting a group that is diverse in background. In essence, enhancing that diversity is one of the qualifications in this case. If you agree that the diversity is a valid goal for this organization, I'd say you were not discriminating against based on race because, in essence, you were not a qualified candidate at that point.

Most of the reported discrimination against black people involves things that people assume are discriminatory but for which there is no evidence. This is a case where he was told point blank that he was being discriminated against for racial reasons.