Religious Brainwashing1

[Ramaraksha]

I used North Korea as an example but i don't see them as brainwashed - scared stiff yes, these guys better watch what they say, if they dare even complain a bit they end up in labor camps. But how does one explain intelligent, educated people living in the free world thinking there is a magic Sugar Daddy waiting to keep them in nice comfort for eternity? And how do they not realize that the religion is teaching them not to listen to any others for a reason?

 

[Kharakov]

I asked my uncle why he believes in God, he said "because I like to believe in God, it makes me feel good." He is well to do, with a lot of property that he collects revenue from without doing real work. So.... of course he likes to believe in God. He also liked to believe that he could eat, drink, and smoke what he wants without having a negative impact on his life.... but his doctor told him to cut back, and finally he listened.

But God belief isn't exactly frowned upon in the USA, which is built around being the second coming of G's US.

 

[Ramaraksha]

I asked my uncle why he believes in God, he said "because I like to believe in God, it makes me feel good." He is well to do, with a lot of property that he collects revenue from without doing real work. So.... of course he likes to believe in God. He also liked to believe that he could eat, drink, and smoke what he wants without having a negative impact on his life.... but his doctor told him to cut back, and finally he listened.

But God belief isn't exactly frowned upon in the USA, which is built around being the second coming of G's US.

I don't see anything wrong with belief - my head tells me i am wrong but my heart wants to believe - anyway, people don't want life to end, they don't want to think that once they die, that is it. They will no longer exist. And so, naturally they hoped for an after life and religions were happy to exploit that need. That is fine also but what is not fine is the division and hate that comes with it. Lots and lots of killings because of religion

All started with the concept of Heaven - again nothing wrong with that - almost every religion has its own version, even Buddhists who say there is no God, talk about "pure lands" funny, they sound exactly like Heaven. Nothing to do, peaceful and happy

Again, not a problem - the problem started with some religions preaching hatred based on this concept - they basically colonized Heaven and put God to work for them - He stands like a guard at the entrance of Heaven and will let only those who belong to "his" religion pass, everyone else gets Hell! It allowed these religions to kick out those who did not fall for their tall tales and preach to a core audience that was eager to believe. People loved these religions because all they had to was convert and beg a bit and nice God will forgive and give them the easy good life they wanted

What followed back in the day was once they gained enough numbers was to first kill off all Atheists and those who expressed doubts, those of other religions until there was no one left. Let a few generations pass and people forget. The Spanish basically mass murdered the indigenous Mexicans until they converted & today? No one in Mexico cares that at one time their ancestors were abused and lost their loved ones to religious hate

My problem is that today is not the 4th century, we do not live in medieval times - in most western areas the killings have gone away but the hate speech remains & in some cases like the US army, pressure is brought down on non-christians. But this is far better than living in any muslim-majority country where abuse of non-muslims is quite common and encouraged

 

[Kharakov]

Well yeah. All religion, even the most peaceful, is inherently evil to non-members. "Those who are not for me are against me." Basically, if resources go towards something that is not going to redirect some sort of resources to you, you get less.

So religions are social groups that take advantage of existing socioeconomic structures to give their members more resources. When they get greedy, they encourage stupid behaviors, including destruction of beneficial outgroups.


Which is why the founding fathers of the USA attempted to create a "more perfect union" that would slowly be steered away from specific social groups having power, to a singular group representing ALL PEOPLES that made sure one group didn't use its bullshit to get above another. We can see, by the Trumps, that the war is not over, that pieces of shit still can rise up and turn things against the many, when the controls given to the few are not overridden by the many successfully. I mean, a poor person should be able to walk up to that asshole and smack him in the face, but if this stuff was allowed willy nilly, you'd only have to manipulate one stupid poor person.

Which means everybody has to be nice all the time, because if we aren't, some group of shitheads are going to think its funny or beneficial to manipulate someone into attacking someone else....


What we need is a completely transparent society.

 

[sharon45]

All started with the concept of Heaven - again nothing wrong with that - almost every religion has its own version, even Buddhists who say there is no God, talk about "pure lands" funny, they sound exactly like Heaven. Nothing to do, peaceful and happy

Heaven is wrong, because it was made up with no actual evidence.

The Spanish basically mass murdered the indigenous Mexicans until they converted & today? No one in Mexico cares that at one time their ancestors were abused and lost their loved ones to religious hate

They really do care, and it shows in their poverty.

 

[sharon45]

What we need is a completely transparent society.

Sounds like a lot of fun.

 

[OLDMAN]

I used North Korea as an example but i don't see them as brainwashed - scared stiff yes, these guys better watch what they say, if they dare even complain a bit they end up in labor camps. But how does one explain intelligent, educated people living in the free world thinking there is a magic Sugar Daddy waiting to keep them in nice comfort for eternity? And how do they not realize that the religion is teaching them not to listen to any others for a reason?


View attachment 12625

Don't forget the other side of heaven. Hell, and of course the final justice for those who are bad. It is almost as important to believers as heaven. People have a read need for justice at the end and some studies show it is more important than for a lot of them than the reward of heaven.

 

[Elixir]

What we need is a completely transparent society.

Sounds like a lot of fun.

I can't see that.

 

[Lion IRC]

Well yeah. All religion, even the most peaceful, is inherently evil to non-members. "Those who are not for me are against me."

Who is against peace?
And why wouldn't you want the "most peaceful" religion to flourish?

...oh yeah now I remember. satan

 

[Elixir]

Well yeah. All religion, even the most peaceful, is inherently evil to non-members. "Those who are not for me are against me."

Who is against peace?
And why wouldn't you want the "most peaceful" religion to flourish?

...oh yeah now I remember. satan

Why worry about Satan? Can't you simply damn him to Hell in the same manner that unbelievers like me are routinely damned to Hell by peaceful believers?

 

[Lion IRC]

Even heaven - the most peaceful place ever - is "inherently evil" to non members.
Right Kharakov?

Why would satan want to be in heaven?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Even heaven - the most peaceful place ever - is "inherently evil" to non members.
Right Kharakov?

Why would satan want to be in heaven?

Divine insurance pays for hookers. Satan likes the ladies.

 

[Ramaraksha]

Well yeah. All religion, even the most peaceful, is inherently evil to non-members.

That's not right - like saying if you go to one school, one must hate all other schools? You are an american, so now you must hate the rest of the world? No Sir, the hate is man-made, driven by certain religions. Proselytizing religions that is. Surely you don't think Buddhism preaches hate against other religions? Neither does Hinduism and there is a reason for that. The problem starts with religions born when Kings ruled & they made God in his image. Heaven is nothing but the his kingdom and naturally one must swear loyalty to the king(belief) before one is allowed in. For people living in those days it made perfect sense. The operative word is - GIVE. You are allowed into the kingdom at the King's pleasure, God will GIVE you the good life, you can't earn it. And once people accepted this state of affairs it allowed the religions to stoke divisions and hatred - "only our God will get you Heaven, other Gods cannot. So, if you want heaven, you better convert" - that was their sales pitch.

One can fully understand that back in the day but to see today's people fall for it is simply disappointing

as i mentioned there are exceptions - Buddhism & Hinduism doesn't do that, if we had the Buddha would not be known - the Sikh religion had 10 gurus or Teachers - 10 - nothing happened to them either. Hindu India is home to half of the world's top religions - that is not an accident

The reason is quite simple - the operative word here is - EARN. Buddhists clearly tell you that even the Buddha cannot help you, one must discover the True path on our own. It is like getting a degree - it is not given, we must earn it. Pulling down others won't help, we each are on our own. For Hindus it is the same way - Moksha is Earned, not given, hence the lack of hate and division

 

[sharon45]

Well yeah. All religion, even the most peaceful, is inherently evil to non-members. "Those who are not for me are against me."

Who is against peace?

The Christian god.

And why wouldn't you want the "most peaceful" religion to flourish?

Even supposedly peaceful, it is still a lie.

...oh yeah now I remember. satan

Ha, oh no you don't, or else you would have given up on Christianity.

 

[sharon45]

Even heaven - the most peaceful place ever - is "inherently evil" to non members.
Right Kharakov?

Why would satan want to be in heaven?

Satan never left Heaven, because it is only a mere servant of the god there.

 

[sharon45]

Well yeah. All religion, even the most peaceful, is inherently evil to non-members.

That's not right - like saying if you go to one school, one must hate all other schools?

Yet, we are not quite talking about schools here.

You are an american, so now you must hate the rest of the world?

Again, this does not pertain.

No Sir, the hate is man-made, driven by certain religions.

No, the religion strikes with hate like a disease, and its members are carriers.

Proselytizing religions that is. Surely you don't think Buddhism preaches hate against other religions?

Of course Buddhism preaches hate.

The problem starts with religions born when Kings ruled & they made God in his image.

The Buddha is like a king and/or god.

For people living in those days it made perfect sense.

Pathetic people.

The operative word is - GIVE. You are allowed into the kingdom at the King's pleasure, God will GIVE you the good life, you can't earn it.

The word is deceive.

And once people accepted this state of affairs it allowed the religions to stoke divisions and hatred

The division and hatred in the religion did that.

"only our God will get you Heaven, other Gods cannot. So, if you want heaven, you better convert" - that was their sales pitch.

It was deception.

One can fully understand that back in the day but to see today's people fall for it is simply disappointing

Wisdom isn't a simple product held back by time.

Hindu India is home to half of the world's top religions - that is not an accident

Largely based on extreme desperation, and a sorry lack of proper education.

The reason is quite simple - the operative word here is - EARN. Buddhists clearly tell you that even the Buddha cannot help you, one must discover the True path on our own.

Yeah, first addict people, then brutally drop them.

It is like getting a degree - it is not given, we must earn it.

A degree in corruption.

 

[Ramaraksha]

Don't forget the other side of heaven. Hell, and of course the final justice for those who are bad. It is almost as important to believers as heaven. People have a read need for justice at the end and some studies show it is more important than for a lot of them than the reward of heaven.

I am sorry how is Hell justice? So, if someone kidnaps your baby boy or grandson, if you hear that that guy had met a gruesome end would you say justice has been done? What do you really care? That your little boy is returned to you, right? That's all that matters, not whether someone is being tortured or not. So Madoff is sitting in jail - lost his two sons but how many of his victims care whether he is hurting or not? If some of them have to choose between food or medicine, has Justice been done now that Madoff is sitting in jail?

Hell is Vengeance, not Justice. These are ideas of primitive people whose life was much different than ours - in most things the best they could hope for was vengeance - someone stole their money or their little girl there was little hope that they would get them back and so they wished for bad things to happen to the criminals and Hell was born

 

[Ramaraksha]

A degree in corruption.

I am sorry but i think you just disagree with everything if it is related to religion - you don't make much sense nor do you use any common sense in your posts. Just because someone is religious does not make them bad people. How are you then any different from Religious people who say Atheists lack morals - personally i think most theists lack morals but that's another story

Basically these are all ideas that's all. I am surprised by your views on Buddhism - hmm is that Christian hate coming thru? lol - Buddhism bills itself as an Atheist faith. Certainly does not say there is a God. All the Buddha taught was how to lead a happy, peaceful life - how can you be hating that? Like being against Yoga just because it is connected to a religion. Are you against Yoga?

There is no religion in Buddhism - well, there is if you see the Buddha as a God and start abusing others - i have met some of those. But basically all the Buddha taught was about leading a good life, that's all

 

[sharon45]

A degree in corruption.

I am sorry but i think you just disagree with everything if it is related to religion

No, I am going to have a problem with its mistakes.

you don't make much sense nor do you use any common sense in your posts.

You mean the popular sense of the proud masses and groupthink. I am not here to merely repeat popular thought that someone else would do.

Just because someone is religious does not make them bad people.

Obviously, but it doesn't make one necessarily a good person either.

How are you then any different from Religious people who say Atheists lack morals

Atheists simply have a lack of belief in a god and gods. That's it. While the religious have some bible or creed they believe in, and try to live by, which has no evidence, and most likely also contains errors.

Basically these are all ideas that's all.

Bad ideas that are mainly dispersed to others.

I am surprised by your views on Buddhism

You should be, and most people as well.

Buddhism bills itself as an Atheist faith. Certainly does not say there is a God. All the Buddha taught was how to lead a happy, peaceful life - how can you be hating that?

Because it scatters lies and manipulations while pretending to be wise.

There is no religion in Buddhism - well, there is if you see the Buddha as a God and start abusing others - i have met some of those.

It is a very corrupt belief, disguising itself as humble.

But basically all the Buddha taught was about leading a good life, that's all

What he supposedly thought was a good life. He didn't bother putting his words up to challenge.

 

[remez]

Hell is Vengeance, not Justice. These are ideas of primitive people whose life was much different than ours - in most things the best they could hope for was vengeance - someone stole their money or their little girl there was little hope that they would get them back and so they wished for bad things to happen to the criminals and Hell was born

Your dilemma is founded on a common humanistic misunderstanding of heaven and hell. You claim that Christians made up the dichotomy to parallel their king slave history. Interesting thought, but erroneous all the same. First Christians postdate the dichotomy of heaven and hell and slavery.

Secondly, you impart the wrong intention of heaven and hell. Their existence is far more foundational than your fanciful revisionism. The actual theistic doctrine of heaven and hell in short is this. Heaven is the place where you choose (free will doctrine) to be with God. Hell is for those who choose not to be with God. To be or not to be…..Truly it is that simple. You are simply caught up with not liking the descriptive differences of the two and blaming God for providing the choice. It is not a choice of religion. It is a choice of relationship. Jesus taught against divisive religions, remember the woman at the well? Why should God force those who don’t want to be with him to be with him? That would be unjust and unloving. That would actually be slavery.

Heaven and hell are simply two eternal destinations of choice for the soul. Now here is where the misunderstandings occur. You espouse that God is torturing those in hell. Why think it is God? Hell is a place created solely for those who don’t want to be with God.

So I ask you….. what would a place solely independent from God’s influence be like?

You postulate it would be great. The Bible simply describes it differently.

The choice is still yours and its been around awhile ...... ay, there's the rub:

To be, or not to be, that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles
And by opposing end them. To die—to sleep,
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to: 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep;
To sleep, perchance to dream—ay, there's the rub:
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come,
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause—there's the respect