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Rick Gates Flips on Trump

Malintent

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Trump's former campaign manager, Rick Gates, has been working with Meuller's team for the past month on a plea deal, which just became public yesterday. The incredible aspect of this is that he was apparently granted "Queen for a Day"... an old legal term meaning that he was granted complete immunity from prosecution for any crime for which he implicates himself in testimony... sort of like the opposite of "taking the 5th"... He must answer every and all questions, honestly or be prosecuted for everything (including the lying) that comes up. If he sticks to the truth, nothing he says can harm him. In these situations, it is in the best interest of the "Queen for the day" to bqasically spill their guts as completely as possible, as it sets themselves up for immunity. He will gladly admit to making illegal payments, money laundering, conspiracy... even MURDER... anything and everything he says he becomes instantly shielded from. He WANTS to tell all, in his own best interest.

Any co-conspirator of his is fucked as completely imaginable. If Trump or someone in his family did something illegal that this guy knows about or participated in, Rick Gates walks, but the Trumpie goes to jail. If Rick fails to disclose something the FBI already knows, or comes to know, then he will be prosecuted for it.

Rick is telling all.

.... and then there is Bannon... he stands by the quotes in that Fire and Fury book, and over the past week we have just been told he spent a total of over 20 HOURS with Mueller, answering every question they had for him.

Steve Bannon is telling all.

George P. told all

Manafort and Flyn are royally fucked, and may have already flipped too. Perhaps next week we will hear that one of them got to be Queen for the day... which would be a fairly clear indication that indictments will be handed to multiple Trump family members.


This is the most delicious "nothing burger" with everything on it I ever tasted.

You think they will let me throw stones at them when they are walked into jail? Pence would support that, I bet.
 

Opoponax

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For an investigation of this kind and scope, it's moving fast. But man, I wish it would move faster. That Trump is in seriously deep shit has got to be about 98% certain, and to see the buffoon come out of this clean is almost unthinkable.

If/when all the illegal shit comes out, and if Congress does nothing, then we will have seen a coup of some kind.

But what if they do remove Trump? The mindset of his base is the closest you can get to being in another dimension without actually being in another dimension.

Trump says something, they believe him.

The lie is found out, they still believe him.

And when all factors dictate the inability to believe the lie, they blame the people who uncovered the truth, or minimize it through whataboutism, or they just don't care. Whatever the case, the one thing they won't do is hold him responsible no matter how outrageous or egregious the words or conduct.

So what will they do if he's removed? There'll be a huge upswing in domestic terrorism.
 

Malintent

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It's a good question and a fair concern, Opoponax. Pretty unpredictable. My guess it will entirely depend on how Fox news decides to align itself. They could implant the thought that it is time to fight harder, or they could implant the thought that they and their subscribers have been deceived and they should be angry at the Repubs that lied... "We're not stupid people. We were deceived by sneaky criminals. We are the victims of politicians. Never trust without verify again".

Any upswing in domestic terror could be tied to the actions of the Republican goons, and serve to stack on charges to the accused, possibly. Trump is guilty of hate speech. If that hate speech results in loss of life, then Trump is a domestic terrorist and should be charged as such.
 

Don2 (Don1 Revised)

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Whether or not Trump and family members are held to account could end up being a political rather than legal matter. So, I don't think the prosecution ought to give complete immunity to upper management type characters. I think they should give them slaps on the wrist in plea deals so this way _politically_ the numbers of persons involved can be counted but also legally they have something on their record if they try to get involved in other campaigns.

As a parallel, I think I read that under Nixon some 29 people were convicted. Decades from now, I think society ought to be able to recall 20 people also convicted in Trump campaign, rather than 3 or 4....which will lead to someone very high, like Trump himself as Orange man walking Orange suit.
 

Malintent

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I think prosecution knows exactly what they are doing... and that "upper management" is only getting a slap on the wrist in exchange for the guillotine for someone else more juicy (and dangerous to the good of the country).
 

Tom Sawyer

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I don't see why people are viewing this as important. Rick Gates basically did nothing more than fetch coffee and neither Trump nor anyone in his campaign or White House really knew him or interacted with him at all and really don't even recognize the name. Also, he was a political lobbyist during the Obama administration, so his testimony would only be anti-Trump lies due radical left wing biases.
 

Malintent

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I know you are being a Poe now, Tom, but it really doesn't matter what Trump knows of Rick... it is what Rick knows of Trump that will matter. Rick obviously ISN'T all that important to punish, else they would not have traded prosecution of his violations of law for the knowledge he has of other's violations.

The reason, in my opinion, that all these former members of Trumps scheme ,errr, campaign, are being "traded up" for is because they have committed some crime in the past, but those they are really after are those that are continuing to commit crimes and are in positions where their crimes can adversely impact the country.

What is Gates doing TODAY to harm the US?

What is Trump doing TODAY to harm the US?

Which is more important to stop?
 

Horatio Parker

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I've read that Trump has told people Manafort could incriminate him.

Flipping Gates will put additional pressure on Manafort. Manafort is 68. Will he be willing to die in prison to protect Trump?
 

Elixir

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So what will they do if he's removed? There'll be a huge upswing in domestic terrorism.

Should that occur, such terrorism will be laid (rightfully) at the feet of Don-the-Con and his congressional enablers. If it happens just prior to the November elections I would expect it to help produce the most thorough house-cleaning in recent history. I wonder what Mueller is thinking, and if he is alarmed enough by now that he wants to adjust his timing to maximize the impact of whatever he has to say. All the indicators I've seen would seem to support that notion.
 

Malintent

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So what will they do if he's removed? There'll be a huge upswing in domestic terrorism.

Should that occur, such terrorism will be laid (rightfully) at the feet of Don-the-Con and his congressional enablers. If it happens just prior to the November elections I would expect it to help produce the most thorough house-cleaning in recent history. I wonder what Mueller is thinking, and if he is alarmed enough by now that he wants to adjust his timing to maximize the impact of whatever he has to say. All the indicators I've seen would seem to support that notion.

agreed... If Mueller's mission is to minimize the harm of threat agents embedded in our government, then striking prior to 2018 elections is his intent.
 

Artemus

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So what will they do if he's removed? There'll be a huge upswing in domestic terrorism.

Should that occur, such terrorism will be laid (rightfully) at the feet of Don-the-Con and his congressional enablers. If it happens just prior to the November elections I would expect it to help produce the most thorough house-cleaning in recent history. I wonder what Mueller is thinking, and if he is alarmed enough by now that he wants to adjust his timing to maximize the impact of whatever he has to say. All the indicators I've seen would seem to support that notion.

agreed... If Mueller's mission is to minimize the harm of threat agents embedded in our government, then striking prior to 2018 elections is his intent.

Mueller mission is to investigate if crimes have been committed and to file charges if they have. He has proven to be entirely apolitical in executing his duties his entire career, which is why he was chosen as special counsel. It's even more critical to maintain a neutral objectivity here. I very strongly doubt that his intent is to "strike" at a particular time for maximum political upheaval, nor should it be. As with any investigation, he'll release his findings when he is done, no sooner, no later.
 

funinspace

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So what will they do if he's removed? There'll be a huge upswing in domestic terrorism.

Should that occur, such terrorism will be laid (rightfully) at the feet of Don-the-Con and his congressional enablers.
While there could be a few whack-o-nuts that do a couple 'terror' crazy things, if such occurred. I'd say the odds of any significant reaction (bloviating doesn't count), as these right wingers regularly belch out threats of 'action', but do nothing. One would think Merika was about to rise up during the SC process legalizing gay rights. One Kentucky county clerk refused to do her job and spent a few days in jail. Besides that, pretty much nothing happened...

Consider the comments made by Mississippi governor Phil Bryant in May 2016:
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/...ucifixion-to-defend-anti-lgbt-discrimination/
“They don’t know us very well, do they?” he asked. “They don’t know that Christians have been persecuted throughout the ages. They don’t know that if it takes crucifixion, we will stand in line before abandoning our faith and our belief in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. So if we are going to stand, now is the time and this is the place.”

So what did all these right wing Christians do? Absolutely fucking nothing. They didn't go in mass to block public squares, court houses, or magistrate offices to simply get arrested for civil disobedience for their cause. Peace activists have done this regularly and accept the legal cost of breaking the law. But this blowhard talks about willingness to be crucified, really? What horse shit! They can't even work up the gumption to go, say by the dozens, to get themselves arrested for being a simple public nuisance. But he thinks people shouldn't laugh at him for suggesting that Christians* would be willing to line up (aka lots of them) to be brutally executed? Let these Christians first line up for a hang nail...then we can talk about the alt-right going renegade and giving up their comfy life of streaming The Walking Dead, and eating Doritos.

And most of my in-law redneck alt-reality guys would work up a sweat just getting their guts going off to the patriotic self-defense militia's. But first a quicky drive thru for a double burger, super sized of course...
 

Elixir

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While there could be a few whack-o-nuts that do a couple 'terror' crazy things, if such occurred. I'd say the odds of any significant reaction (bloviating doesn't count), as these right wingers regularly belch out threats of 'action', but do nothing. One would think Merika was about to rise up during the SC process legalizing gay rights. One Kentucky county clerk refused to do her job and spent a few days in jail. Besides that, pretty much nothing happened...

Consider the comments made by Mississippi governor Phil Bryant in May 2016:
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/...ucifixion-to-defend-anti-lgbt-discrimination/
“They don’t know us very well, do they?” he asked. “They don’t know that Christians have been persecuted throughout the ages. They don’t know that if it takes crucifixion, we will stand in line before abandoning our faith and our belief in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. So if we are going to stand, now is the time and this is the place.”

So what did all these right wing Christians do? Absolutely fucking nothing. They didn't go in mass to block public squares, court houses, or magistrate offices to simply get arrested for civil disobedience for their cause. Peace activists have done this regularly and accept the legal cost of breaking the law. But this blowhard talks about willingness to be crucified, really? What horse shit! They can't even work up the gumption to go, say by the dozens, to get themselves arrested for being a simple public nuisance. But he thinks people shouldn't laugh at him for suggesting that Christians* would be willing to line up (aka lots of them) to be brutally executed? Let these Christians first line up for a hang nail...then we can talk about the alt-right going renegade and giving up their comfy life of streaming The Walking Dead, and eating Doritos.

And most of my in-law redneck alt-reality guys would work up a sweat just getting their guts going off to the patriotic self-defense militia's. But first a quicky drive thru for a double burger, super sized of course...

It wouldn't take many of them to do shit that would dominate headlines for weeks... witness the coverage attained by one 18 year old wackadoodle. Imagine maybe a half dozen self-styled lone wolf alt-right heroes.
 

Rhea

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So what did all these right wing Christians do? Absolutely fucking nothing. They didn't go in mass to block public squares, court houses, or magistrate offices to simply get arrested for civil disobedience for their cause. Peace activists have done this regularly and accept the legal cost of breaking the law. But this blowhard talks about willingness to be crucified, really? What horse shit! They can't even work up the gumption to go, say by the dozens, to get themselves arrested for being a simple public nuisance. But he thinks people shouldn't laugh at him for suggesting that Christians* would be willing to line up (aka lots of them) to be brutally executed? Let these Christians first line up for a hang nail...then we can talk about the alt-right going renegade and giving up their comfy life of streaming The Walking Dead, and eating Doritos.

I hope you’re right - there s the BUndy Bunch, tho.
 

Opoponax

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So what will they do if he's removed? There'll be a huge upswing in domestic terrorism.

Should that occur, such terrorism will be laid (rightfully) at the feet of Don-the-Con and his congressional enablers. If it happens just prior to the November elections I would expect it to help produce the most thorough house-cleaning in recent history. I wonder what Mueller is thinking, and if he is alarmed enough by now that he wants to adjust his timing to maximize the impact of whatever he has to say. All the indicators I've seen would seem to support that notion.

agreed... If Mueller's mission is to minimize the harm of threat agents embedded in our government, then striking prior to 2018 elections is his intent.

The timing isn't going to matter with respect to a certain percentage of Trump's base being willing to engage in violence. It's going to happen sooner or later. If he's removed for conspiring with a foreign power during an election and/or obstruction of justice, they may riot locally, but down the road is when the Timothy McVeigh shit will start happening. They'll see the removal of Trump as an illegal overthrow of the government and they'll take action against it.

That'll be put off and somewhat mitigate if Trump simply loses the election in 2020 (assuming we'll still be having elections then). But there will still be a percentage that will, with every fiber of their being, believe it was fixed.

I'd never read the Turner Diaries until about a year and a half ago. In that book, I saw Trump supporters, and it scared the shit out of me. To be fair, most of his base wouldn't do anything except make up stories about how Hillary had Seth Rich assassinated with a uranium laced pizza delivered to him by one of her child sex slaves. But there is a significant, well armed number of them who will begin killing people.

I see them becoming something similar to what the PLO used to be.

I wish I was kidding.
 

Opoponax

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While there could be a few whack-o-nuts that do a couple 'terror' crazy things, if such occurred. I'd say the odds of any significant reaction (bloviating doesn't count), as these right wingers regularly belch out threats of 'action', but do nothing. One would think Merika was about to rise up during the SC process legalizing gay rights. One Kentucky county clerk refused to do her job and spent a few days in jail. Besides that, pretty much nothing happened...

And most of my in-law redneck alt-reality guys would work up a sweat just getting their guts going off to the patriotic self-defense militia's. But first a quicky drive thru for a double burger, super sized of course...

I think you're right about the vast majority of them. But there's a different tone and feel now than there was then. And this won't be about equal rights.

This is gonna be about what they see is a direct overthrow of their lawfully elected POTUS. And even more importantly, it's going to be about guns. Have you seen the NRA's videos? If not, you really must. The purpose of those videos is to get conservative gun owners riled the fuck up and out of their minds so that they'll keep buying; and it does.

The NRA makes no bones about fully supporting Trump either.

I don't think they're gonna go so quietly and lazily this time. The vast majority will, but a significant number won't.
 

Malintent

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agreed... If Mueller's mission is to minimize the harm of threat agents embedded in our government, then striking prior to 2018 elections is his intent.

Mueller mission is to investigate if crimes have been committed and to file charges if they have. He has proven to be entirely apolitical in executing his duties his entire career, which is why he was chosen as special counsel. It's even more critical to maintain a neutral objectivity here. I very strongly doubt that his intent is to "strike" at a particular time for maximum political upheaval, nor should it be. As with any investigation, he'll release his findings when he is done, no sooner, no later.

This is partially true... However, I referring to there being a "good time" to move on certain aspects of an investigation, to get the best legal outcome (all the bad guys caught). I did not refer to a good "political" time to strike. If there is a threat to a system, then it is not controversial to say that it is best to heal the system before the system attempts to operate.
 

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https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/20/politics/robert-mueller-rick-gates/index.html

"Special counsel Robert Mueller has filed a charge against a lawyer for lying to investigators about his interaction with former Trump campaign aide Rick Gates in September 2016.

Alex Van Der Zwaan is expected to plead guilty Tuesday afternoon. The filing is further evidence of Mueller's investigation of former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort and Gates and their work for Russian-allied clients."
 

Elixir

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agreed... If Mueller's mission is to minimize the harm of threat agents embedded in our government, then striking prior to 2018 elections is his intent.

Mueller mission is to investigate if crimes have been committed and to file charges if they have. He has proven to be entirely apolitical in executing his duties his entire career, which is why he was chosen as special counsel. It's even more critical to maintain a neutral objectivity here. I very strongly doubt that his intent is to "strike" at a particular time for maximum political upheaval, nor should it be. As with any investigation, he'll release his findings when he is done, no sooner, no later.

This is partially true... However, I referring to there being a "good time" to move on certain aspects of an investigation, to get the best legal outcome (all the bad guys caught). I did not refer to a good "political" time to strike. If there is a threat to a system, then it is not controversial to say that it is best to heal the system before the system attempts to operate.

Some are speculating that the release of those indictments against the 13 Ruskies was timed to make it more difficult remove Rosenstein (then Mueller). If Mueller has been a-politcal his entire career, but is feeling the necessity to remove Trump out of sheer patriotism (I think he knows Trump is behaving in a traitorous manner, even if only out of greed) he might be considering timing the release of information to that end.
 
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