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Rittenhouse/Kenosha Shooting Split

Jimmy Higgins

Contributor
Meanwhile in a case of an actually armed person.

I hate TMZ, but this is the source of the video. So a white guy, with a mask on, carrying a rifle, walks up to the police, sometimes hands up, sometimes not... and nothing?! Loren likes to talk about all the sorts of potential dangers officers shoot people over... but this guy appears to be virtually ignored.
 

Worldtraveller

Veteran Member
Meanwhile in a case of an actually armed person.

I hate TMZ, but this is the source of the video. So a white guy, with a mask on, carrying a rifle, walks up to the police, sometimes hands up, sometimes not... and nothing?! Loren likes to talk about all the sorts of potential dangers officers shoot people over... but this guy appears to be virtually ignored.
He was caught on video actually saying he shot/killed (it's hard to understand which word he used) someone too. The police 1) didn't react when he was approaching them, armed, and 2) let him go even after the shooting.
 

Jimmy Higgins

Contributor
Meanwhile in a case of an actually armed person.

I hate TMZ, but this is the source of the video. So a white guy, with a mask on, carrying a rifle, walks up to the police, sometimes hands up, sometimes not... and nothing?! Loren likes to talk about all the sorts of potential dangers officers shoot people over... but this guy appears to be virtually ignored.
He was caught on video actually saying he shot/killed (it's hard to understand which word he used) someone too. The police 1) didn't react when he was approaching them, armed, and 2) let him go even after the shooting.
Meanwhile the guy taking video of the guy walking while clearly armed, probably would have been shot, with the phone mistaken as a gun, if he tried to follow the shooter.
 

Jimmy Higgins

Contributor
Well, apparently it is possible to apprehend someone, who is even armed, after the fact. The asshole who shot people last night is being raised up on first degree murder charges.

article said:
A 17-year-old Illinois resident connected to an overnight shooting during a protest in Kenosha, Wisconsin, was taken into custody Wednesday morning, according to police in Antioch, Illinois.

Antioch Police said Wisconsin authorities issued an arrest warrant charging Kyle Rittenhouse with first-degree intentional homicide. He is in the custody of the Lake County Judicial System pending an extradition hearing to transfer custody of him from Illinois to Wisconsin.
17 years old? Well, I suppose that thug will be living in jail for a while.
 

ZiprHead

Loony Running The Asylum
Staff member
Meanwhile in a case of an actually armed person.

I hate TMZ, but this is the source of the video. So a white guy, with a mask on, carrying a rifle, walks up to the police, sometimes hands up, sometimes not... and nothing?! Loren likes to talk about all the sorts of potential dangers officers shoot people over... but this guy appears to be virtually ignored.

He isn't even a Wisconsin resident. He came from another state to cause trouble.
 

repoman

Contributor
wow, what a snapshot of the guy who was about 0.3 seconds away from getting shot in the bicep. About a second before this he had his finger in the trigger. It looks like he had given the reflexive "I give up" body language.

EgW-vlYWkAAl7Cs.jpeg

I think the second is after he was shot in the arm

EgW-WveXYAQa6Be.jpeg
 

Loren Pechtel

Super Moderator
Staff member
Meanwhile in a case of an actually armed person.

I hate TMZ, but this is the source of the video. So a white guy, with a mask on, carrying a rifle, walks up to the police, sometimes hands up, sometimes not... and nothing?! Loren likes to talk about all the sorts of potential dangers officers shoot people over... but this guy appears to be virtually ignored.

Wouldn't be the first case of the cops deliberately turning a blind eye to the actions of the far-right people that oppose BLM. While I doubt they can be charged with anything the ones that witnesses that and didn't act shouldn't be cops anymore.
 

Loren Pechtel

Super Moderator
Staff member
Well, apparently it is possible to apprehend someone, who is even armed, after the fact. The asshole who shot people last night is being raised up on first degree murder charges.

Looks like self defense to me.

For the second and third people he shot, I agree. The reason he shot the first guy is more murky.

If the first guy is inappropriate he doesn't have standing to claim self defense in the other cases.
 

SLD

Veteran Member
Fucking Facebook! He was radicalized on some Facebook group, Kenosha Guards. They’ve taken it down so you can’t see what they were saying. Sheesh. Kid has ruined several lives now including is own. Fuck.
 

ronburgundy

Contributor
Well, apparently it is possible to apprehend someone, who is even armed, after the fact. The asshole who shot people last night is being raised up on first degree murder charges.

Looks like self defense to me.

He got in his car and drove to another state and starting running around the streets with a rifle. Sounds like premeditated murder to me, deliberately planning to instigate the actions of others trying to protect his victims that he then used as an excuse to murder.
 

Jimmy Higgins

Contributor
Well, apparently it is possible to apprehend someone, who is even armed, after the fact. The asshole who shot people last night is being raised up on first degree murder charges.

Looks like self defense to me.

He got in his car and drove to another state and starting running around the streets with a rifle. Sounds like premeditated murder to me, deliberately planning to instigate the actions of others trying to protect his victims that he then used as an excuse to murder.
Yeah, this seems pretty straightforward. It doesn't seem surprising that the far right-wing needs to use Homer Simpson logic.

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lS_l0mx-JQ[/YOUTUBE]
 

ZiprHead

Loony Running The Asylum
Staff member
For the second and third people he shot, I agree. The reason he shot the first guy is more murky.

If the first guy is inappropriate he doesn't have standing to claim self defense in the other cases.

I've heard the first person he shot in the head from across a street. If it was cops pursuing him to catch him and he shot them, would it not be murder?

Being 17, he was also illegally carrying that firearm.
 

TSwizzle

Contributor
Well, apparently it is possible to apprehend someone, who is even armed, after the fact. The asshole who shot people last night is being raised up on first degree murder charges.

Looks like self defense to me.

He got in his car and drove to another state and starting running around the streets with a rifle. Sounds like premeditated murder to me, deliberately planning to instigate the actions of others trying to protect his victims that he then used as an excuse to murder.

Even so, he was on the ground being assaulted by people. I should not be a surprise even to the dumbest of assholes that there would be bloodshed.

Oh the irony of the BLM mob screaming at police to have him arrested.
 

SLD

Veteran Member
B9DBE6A5-668D-42E7-B4CA-908EB0295328.jpeg

This is a social media post regarding the riots. It’s posts like this that prompted that young man to grab a gun and go to Kenosha where he thought he’d be a fucking hero.

Well, he’s just won a Darwin Award. Don’t let someone like him reproduce. Lock him up forever.
 

Arctish

Contributor
He got in his car and drove to another state and starting running around the streets with a rifle. Sounds like premeditated murder to me, deliberately planning to instigate the actions of others trying to protect his victims that he then used as an excuse to murder.

Even so, he was on the ground being assaulted by people. I should not be a surprise even to the dumbest of assholes that there would be bloodshed.

Oh the irony of the BLM mob screaming at police to have him arrested.

What irony?

The #BLM movement is all about valuing human life, specifically the lives of black people. It's all about having the Constitutional rights of blacks and whites equally respected. It's about having the police Protect and Serve people of color the same way they do for whites. It's about not being indifferent when people are beaten and killed.

Seriously, are you really this clueless about what the protesters are protesting? Or are you just bullshitting?
 

TSwizzle

Contributor
He got in his car and drove to another state and starting running around the streets with a rifle. Sounds like premeditated murder to me, deliberately planning to instigate the actions of others trying to protect his victims that he then used as an excuse to murder.

Even so, he was on the ground being assaulted by people. I should not be a surprise even to the dumbest of assholes that there would be bloodshed.

Oh the irony of the BLM mob screaming at police to have him arrested.

What irony?

The #BLM movement is all about valuing human life, specifically the lives of black people. It's all about having the Constitutional rights of blacks and whites equally respected. It's about having the police Protect and Serve people of color the same way they do for whites. It's about not being indifferent when people are beaten and killed.

LOL ! Quit clowning around, you couldn’t possibly have missed the “defund the police, all cops are bad” mantra from the BLM rabble. And when the chips are down they start yelling for the police to arrest people. Hilarious.

Seriously, are you really this clueless about what the protesters are protesting? Or are you just bullshitting?

Protesting ? Behave yourself.
 

J842P

Veteran Member
Ok, I think this video makes it clear. The guy in the blue rectangle and shirt on his head throws a plastic bag probably with rocks at him and misses. Then he runs up and tries to disarm him. Not sure whata happened with that.

https://twitter.com/AntifaWatch2/status/1298649108585099264

Is this before or after he killed the first person?

Directly after.

Here's a video that gives a semi-clear sequence of events, starting with the first shooting:

[YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/n_7QHRNFOKE?t=153[/YOUTUBE]

Seems the guy shot in the head was chasing him and threw a molotov cocktail at him?

After that, he is attacked by the other two dudes, and that's when he kills the other guy, it seems, and definitely when he wounds the third guy. Warning, the video is pretty graphic.
 

Derec

Contributor
Fucking Facebook! He was radicalized on some Facebook group, Kenosha Guards. They’ve taken it down so you can’t see what they were saying. Sheesh. Kid has ruined several lives now including is own. Fuck.

Had there not been riots and "burning this bitch down", there would have been no need for Kenosha Guards.
 

Derec

Contributor
He got in his car and drove to another state and starting running around the streets with a rifle. Sounds like premeditated murder to me, deliberately planning to instigate the actions of others trying to protect his victims that he then used as an excuse to murder.

Driving to another state is not illegal. And #BLMers have been protesting while armed with semiauto rifles too. So that in itself seems to be ok. And if this kid was set upon by #BLMers I can see it being self defense shooting.
 

Derec

Contributor
Don’t let someone like him reproduce. Lock him up forever.

I thought you guys were in favor of a sentencing reform. Which is it?

Also, he is 17. During Trayvon Martin discussions, I was told that a 17 year old is just a child. You want to lock up a child forever?
 

ZiprHead

Loony Running The Asylum
Staff member
[TWEET]<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">HOLY SHIT!????????????*♂️<br>MUST WATCH!<br><br>Video of <a href="https://twitter.com/KenoshaPolice?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@KenoshaPolice</a><br>giving water to Kyle Rittenhouse AND Police thanking all the <br>ALT-Right agitators who were <br>armed with AR-15!<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Kenosha?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Kenosha</a><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/kylerittenhouse?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#kylerittenhouse</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/KidVicious?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#KidVicious</a>????????????*♂️ <br><br> <a href="https://t.co/dNgqpf0knC">pic.twitter.com/dNgqpf0knC</a></p>— kirk acevedo (@kirkacevedo) <a href="https://twitter.com/kirkacevedo/status/1298686758737985536?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 26, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>[/TWEET]
 

laughing dog

Contributor
He got in his car and drove to another state and starting running around the streets with a rifle. Sounds like premeditated murder to me, deliberately planning to instigate the actions of others trying to protect his victims that he then used as an excuse to murder.

Driving to another state is not illegal. And #BLMers have been protesting while armed with semiauto rifles too. So that in itself seems to be ok. And if this kid was set upon by #BLMers I can see it being self defense shooting.
Some guy running around with a firearm is clearly an example of "Waaah, anything might happen", so the #BLMers were acting in self-defense - according to your stated defense of the police action in Kenosha shooting.

Oh, I forgot, the victim is white and the attackers are black, so your rational is not applicable in this instance.
 

SLD

Veteran Member
Fucking Facebook! He was radicalized on some Facebook group, Kenosha Guards. They’ve taken it down so you can’t see what they were saying. Sheesh. Kid has ruined several lives now including is own. Fuck.

Had there not been riots and "burning this bitch down", there would have been no need for Kenosha Guards.

Bullshit. He was 17 years old, and he was carrying an AR-15 assault rifle. What kind of fucked up country is it in the first place that we have 17 year olds allowed to own or carry such weapons without at least adult supervision? He never should have been there! He wasn’t a business owner defending his property, let the fucking professionals handle the situation. If it’s that bad, get the National Guard out there, but vigilante groups like this have no business existing in America. None!

Here’s the real question. Why aren’t these things happening in Germany? Or Denmark? Or Canada? Or virtually anywhere else in the free world. Why do we never read about cops shooting unarmed people in these places, followed by rioting, followed by vigilante groups who feel free to Shoot at anyone THEY have determined to be a threat?

This is the direct result of decades of a fear and gun culture perpetrated those like Donald fucking Trump who spew hate filled monologues about how brown people are rapists, and drug dealers, and you need a gun to protect yourself and you’re really cool like Rambo if you do that. We live in an NRA/GOP induced fear for no reason whatsoever. Other than to sell more weapons. Sell the fear. Those scary black people Are coming after you, it’s ok to shoot them. That mentality has been driven into us since the election of Ronald Reagan - the truly worst President ever.

In a free society, only the state should have a monopoly on violence. I don’t like rioters or looters either. Hope they’re all prosecuted. But back off and let the professionals handle it. Going down there is only going to escalate the problem and get you and someone else hurt. Even if it is your business, that’s what you have insurance for.
 

skepticalbip

Contributor
Fucking Facebook! He was radicalized on some Facebook group, Kenosha Guards. They’ve taken it down so you can’t see what they were saying. Sheesh. Kid has ruined several lives now including is own. Fuck.

Had there not been riots and "burning this bitch down", there would have been no need for Kenosha Guards.

Bullshit. He was 17 years old, and he was carrying an AR-15 assault rifle. What kind of fucked up country is it in the first place that we have 17 year olds allowed to own or carry such weapons without at least adult supervision? He never should have been there! He wasn’t a business owner defending his property, let the fucking professionals handle the situation. If it’s that bad, get the National Guard out there, but vigilante groups like this have no business existing in America. None!
Vigilante groups happen when the elected officials refuse to do their job and protect the citizens, or worse, order the police to not do their job.

If you check, you will find that gun sales has sky rocketed across the U.S. since mayors and governors in several states have not attempted to stop looting, arson, and assaults in several cities plus the growing demand to 'defund' police. People want security and, if the local governments refuse to provide it, people start looking out for themselves and others in their community (commonly called vigilantism).

ETA:
As an aside, the democrats may feel the fallout from ignoring the riots in the next election... Trump has put on his "law and order" cape.
 

J842P

Veteran Member
He got in his car and drove to another state and starting running around the streets with a rifle. Sounds like premeditated murder to me, deliberately planning to instigate the actions of others trying to protect his victims that he then used as an excuse to murder.

Driving to another state is not illegal. And #BLMers have been protesting while armed with semiauto rifles too. So that in itself seems to be ok. And if this kid was set upon by #BLMers I can see it being self defense shooting.
Some guy running around with a firearm is clearly an example of "Waaah, anything might happen", so the #BLMers were acting in self-defense - according to your stated defense of the police action in Kenosha shooting.

Oh, I forgot, the victim is white and the attackers are black, so your rational is not applicable in this instance.

They were all white, so I don't know what you are babbling about. In any case, that isn't close to the stated position, this is just a classic straw-man.
 

Derec

Contributor
Seems the guy shot in the head was chasing him and threw a molotov cocktail at him?

After that, he is attacked by the other two dudes, and that's when he kills the other guy, it seems, and definitely when he wounds the third guy. Warning, the video is pretty graphic.

Definitely looks like it could legally be self defense. Certainly not "1st degree murder" as he was initially charged with.

Do we know anything about the dead guys?
 

Derec

Contributor
Bullshit. He was 17 years old, and he was carrying an AR-15 assault rifle. What kind of fucked up country is it in the first place that we have 17 year olds allowed to own or carry such weapons without at least adult supervision? He never should have been there! He wasn’t a business owner defending his property, let the fucking professionals handle the situation. If it’s that bad, get the National Guard out there, but vigilante groups like this have no business existing in America. None!

Yeah, the kid was pretty stupid to come there in the first place, and with a rifle too. I did not say he should have gone there. But he (and others) would not have come if the rioters had not rioted and senselessly burned down buildings.
And also what he did is not premeditated murder.

Here’s the real question. Why aren’t these things happening in Germany? Or Denmark? Or Canada? Or virtually anywhere else in the free world.
The AR15 part is due to MUCH stricter gun laws.
But Germany and other European countries have had devastating rioting too. For example, Hamburg suffered pretty severe anti-capitalism riots (including our "friends" the Antifas) in 2017.

Why do we never read about cops shooting unarmed people in these places, followed by rioting, followed by vigilante groups who feel free to Shoot at anyone THEY have determined to be a threat?
As I said they have fewer guns. Second, there is no black nationalism. Third, Blake WAS ARMED.

This is the direct result of decades of a fear and gun culture perpetrated those like Donald fucking Trump who spew hate filled monologues about how brown people are rapists, and drug dealers, and you need a gun to protect yourself a
More like the result of decades of fearmongering that somehow black people are being hunted by police and by whitey even though black people commit about 5x as many murders per capita as whites.
Result of decades of that racist propaganda: 'Black people in America are scared,' says LeBron James after Jacob Blake shooting

In a free society, only the state should have a monopoly on violence. I don’t like rioters or looters either.
I agree with you. I do not like loose US weapons laws or the prevalence of militias, be they white or black.
But if you have rioting and lawlessness, and local cities/counties not doing enough to restore order, then it is hardly surprising that armed people opposed to the rioters would show up.

Hope they’re all prosecuted.
We agree there! Unfortunately, "progressive" DAs have basically declared that they will go easy on rioters and have been dropping charges. That merely encourages more rioting!

But back off and let the professionals handle it. Going down there is only going to escalate the problem and get you and someone else hurt. Even if it is your business, that’s what you have insurance for.

I agree that people should not come in seeking trouble. But I have a lot of respect for people protecting their livelihoods from the violent mob.
 

laughing dog

Contributor
Some guy running around with a firearm is clearly an example of "Waaah, anything might happen", so the #BLMers were acting in self-defense - according to your stated defense of the police action in Kenosha shooting.

Oh, I forgot, the victim is white and the attackers are black, so your rational is not applicable in this instance.

They were all white, so I don't know what you are babbling about. In any case, that isn't close to the stated position, this is just a classic straw-man.
It is exactly his repeated position.
 

J842P

Veteran Member
So, we have people, not cops just people, entering an area with significant unrest armed with even more deadly weapons than cops bring into areas with unrest.

Not only that, but the murderer was one of those documented Boogaloo "militia" fucking racists.

It's like Beirut, letting a bad situation fester and then being surprised when it blows the fuck up. Surprised Pikachu and all that.

Maybe actually fucking regulate the militias?

He has not been documented as a Boogaloo, quite the opposite. Boogaloo are anti-government, far-right extremists who have killed cops. This Rittenhouse guy seems to be a cop wannabe. So "militia" but not boogaloo.


Anyway, here is the NYTimes piece that strings together the events as best as possible:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/27/us/kyle-rittenhouse-kenosha-shooting-video.html

Basically, what we know starts with Rittenhouse being chased by two guys for some unknown reason. One guy shoots a pistol into the air, and Rittenhouse turns around as he is being charged by the other guy, this is when he shoots that guy in the head.

There is gunfire all around. He runs back towards the gunfire / police, and that is when the three other guys try to stop him. I think he trips, but somehow ends up on the ground, one guy tries to stomp him, Rittenhouse shoots but misses, the tall skinny guy with a skateboard hits him with the skateboard, gets shot in the stomach. And another guy who is running towards him with a gun gets shot in the arm.

Quite frankly, given all the video evidence, he's going to have a very good self-defense case, especially since he is retreating the entire time.


This twitter thread by one of the reporters has more videos:

https://twitter.com/trbrtc/status/1298839097923063809

Sounds like a lot of dumb people all around. What is still unknown is why the two original guys were chasing him.
 

ruby sparks

Contributor
"Footage appears to show Rittenhouse later walking into a line of armored police vehicles with his hands up while protesters shout to officers that he was the person responsible for the shootings" Despite the apparent attempt to hand himself in, he was only arrested on recently in his hometown, Antioch, Illinois, 15 miles from Kenosha.

I'm sorry, but I think this is a bit comical. I'm trying to imagine a black man with a rifle walking towards American police (who presumably at least heard shots) trying to hand himself in after shooting three people, with a crowd yelling at the police that he did it, and he can't hand himself in, and the police only quite a bit later arrest him at his house in another town (without shooting or killing him). :)

Maybe they were waiting to see if he had a car. If he had gotten into a car, well, they'd have had to shoot him. Or at least note his number plate. No wait, I said imagine he was black.
 

Loren Pechtel

Super Moderator
Staff member
For the second and third people he shot, I agree. The reason he shot the first guy is more murky.

If the first guy is inappropriate he doesn't have standing to claim self defense in the other cases.

I've heard the first person he shot in the head from across a street. If it was cops pursuing him to catch him and he shot them, would it not be murder?

Exactly. Once you have unclean hands you don't have the right to use force in self defense relevant to the situation in which you have unclean hands. Once he shot someone without reason any force he uses against those trying to stop him is automatically illegal.

Being 17, he was also illegally carrying that firearm.

Check local law on that. You need to be 18+ to buy a rifle/shotgun and 21+ to buy a handgun but that doesn't say you have to be of those ages to possess one.
 

Loren Pechtel

Super Moderator
Staff member
Ok, I think this video makes it clear. The guy in the blue rectangle and shirt on his head throws a plastic bag probably with rocks at him and misses. Then he runs up and tries to disarm him. Not sure whata happened with that.

https://twitter.com/AntifaWatch2/status/1298649108585099264

Is this before or after he killed the first person?

Directly after.

Here's a video that gives a semi-clear sequence of events, starting with the first shooting:

[YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/n_7QHRNFOKE?t=153[/YOUTUBE]

Seems the guy shot in the head was chasing him and threw a molotov cocktail at him?

After that, he is attacked by the other two dudes, and that's when he kills the other guy, it seems, and definitely when he wounds the third guy. Warning, the video is pretty graphic.

I don't see anything that shows the events leading up to it. Unfortunately, as usually happens with such situations the cameras miss the trigger and only see the response. (Because people only start filming when something happens, this isn't an intentional deception.)
 

Arctish

Contributor
Directly after.

Here's a video that gives a semi-clear sequence of events, starting with the first shooting:

[YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/n_7QHRNFOKE?t=153[/YOUTUBE]

Seems the guy shot in the head was chasing him and threw a molotov cocktail at him?

After that, he is attacked by the other two dudes, and that's when he kills the other guy, it seems, and definitely when he wounds the third guy. Warning, the video is pretty graphic.

I don't see anything that shows the events leading up to it. Unfortunately, as usually happens with such situations the cameras miss the trigger and only see the response. (Because people only start filming when something happens, this isn't an intentional deception.)

I agree.

We don't know what caused Rittenhouse to shoot the first guy. We do know that when people identify an active shooter, some of them will try to stop further carnage by tackling the guy or shooting back. Usually we call those people heroes.
 

Loren Pechtel

Super Moderator
Staff member
Directly after.

Here's a video that gives a semi-clear sequence of events, starting with the first shooting:

[YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/n_7QHRNFOKE?t=153[/YOUTUBE]

Seems the guy shot in the head was chasing him and threw a molotov cocktail at him?

After that, he is attacked by the other two dudes, and that's when he kills the other guy, it seems, and definitely when he wounds the third guy. Warning, the video is pretty graphic.

I don't see anything that shows the events leading up to it. Unfortunately, as usually happens with such situations the cameras miss the trigger and only see the response. (Because people only start filming when something happens, this isn't an intentional deception.)

I agree.

We don't know what caused Rittenhouse to shoot the first guy. We do know that when people identify an active shooter, some of them will try to stop further carnage by tackling the guy or shooting back. Usually we call those people heroes.

I disagree on mass shooter--nobody else was hit. However, I strongly suspect there was a substantial incident that doesn't show up on the video that caused the attack on him. People with molotovs rarely chase people with guns without a very good reason.

Given the behavior of the police department there I wouldn't be surprised if we never find out exactly what happened.
 

Arctish

Contributor
I agree.

We don't know what caused Rittenhouse to shoot the first guy. We do know that when people identify an active shooter, some of them will try to stop further carnage by tackling the guy or shooting back. Usually we call those people heroes.

I disagree on mass shooter--nobody else was hit.

Did you watch the videos? Rittenhouse fired multiple times. Just because he mostly missed doesn't mean he wasn't trying to hit more people.

And anyway, two people shot to death and one seriously wounded by a guy firing into a crowd is a mass shooting.


However, I strongly suspect there was a substantial incident that doesn't show up on the video that caused the attack on him. People with molotovs rarely chase people with guns without a very good reason.

Given the behavior of the police department there I wouldn't be surprised if we never find out exactly what happened.

I think we'll eventually hear enough from the people who were there to reach reasonable conclusions about the most important elements.
 

ZiprHead

Loony Running The Asylum
Staff member
I've heard the first person he shot in the head from across a street. If it was cops pursuing him to catch him and he shot them, would it not be murder?

Exactly. Once you have unclean hands you don't have the right to use force in self defense relevant to the situation in which you have unclean hands. Once he shot someone without reason any force he uses against those trying to stop him is automatically illegal.

Being 17, he was also illegally carrying that firearm.

Check local law on that. You need to be 18+ to buy a rifle/shotgun and 21+ to buy a handgun but that doesn't say you have to be of those ages to possess one.

Suspected Kenosha shooter may have been illegally carrying gun

Wisconsin is an open carry state, meaning anyone who gets a gun legally can carry it in most public places without a license or permit.

But that's not the case for minors like 17-year-old Kyle Rittenhouse, who is accused of shooting three protesters in Kenosha Tuesday night, killing
two of them.

Kenosha Police Chief Daniel Miskinis confirmed to reporters Wednesday that you have to be 18 to open carry in the state of Wisconsin.
 

Jarhyn

Contributor
Exactly. Once you have unclean hands you don't have the right to use force in self defense relevant to the situation in which you have unclean hands. Once he shot someone without reason any force he uses against those trying to stop him is automatically illegal.



Check local law on that. You need to be 18+ to buy a rifle/shotgun and 21+ to buy a handgun but that doesn't say you have to be of those ages to possess one.

Suspected Kenosha shooter may have been illegally carrying gun

Wisconsin is an open carry state, meaning anyone who gets a gun legally can carry it in most public places without a license or permit.

But that's not the case for minors like 17-year-old Kyle Rittenhouse, who is accused of shooting three protesters in Kenosha Tuesday night, killing
two of them.

Kenosha Police Chief Daniel Miskinis confirmed to reporters Wednesday that you have to be 18 to open carry in the state of Wisconsin.

"Suspected"; "May have been".

DOCUMENTED shooter ABSOLUTELY in illegal possession of assault weapon at time of mass shooting.
 

repoman

Contributor
I agree.

We don't know what caused Rittenhouse to shoot the first guy. We do know that when people identify an active shooter, some of them will try to stop further carnage by tackling the guy or shooting back. Usually we call those people heroes.

I disagree on mass shooter--nobody else was hit. However, I strongly suspect there was a substantial incident that doesn't show up on the video that caused the attack on him. People with molotovs rarely chase people with guns without a very good reason.

Given the behavior of the police department there I wouldn't be surprised if we never find out exactly what happened.

there is a video where the shorter bald guy who got shot in the head is revved up and the shooter is on the other side. Someone with the shooter strongly pushed him back to get with away from the protestors and maybe the bald guy in particular.

No, I found it again, but it was a different guy that was pulled back - black and not tan shoes. Actually, as a team the militia were trying to get their guys who were getting heated out of the faces of the protestors, not always successfully.

https://twitter.com/AnonOpsSE/status/1298490065723760641
 

Arctish

Contributor
I agree.

We don't know what caused Rittenhouse to shoot the first guy. We do know that when people identify an active shooter, some of them will try to stop further carnage by tackling the guy or shooting back. Usually we call those people heroes.

I disagree on mass shooter--nobody else was hit. However, I strongly suspect there was a substantial incident that doesn't show up on the video that caused the attack on him. People with molotovs rarely chase people with guns without a very good reason.

Given the behavior of the police department there I wouldn't be surprised if we never find out exactly what happened.

there is a video where the shorter bald guy who got shot in the head is revved up and the shooter is on the other side. Someone with the shooter strongly pushed him back to get with away from the protestors and maybe the bald guy in particular.

Yeah, it looks like that's where/when it started. But what started it isn't clear.

Rittenhouse may have felt threatened and shot that first guy in self defense, or he may have instigated the conflict by threatening others. We need a lot more information before we can assign blame, but I definitely want to have a word with his parents.
 

SLD

Veteran Member
I've heard the first person he shot in the head from across a street. If it was cops pursuing him to catch him and he shot them, would it not be murder?

Exactly. Once you have unclean hands you don't have the right to use force in self defense relevant to the situation in which you have unclean hands. Once he shot someone without reason any force he uses against those trying to stop him is automatically illegal.

Being 17, he was also illegally carrying that firearm.

Check local law on that. You need to be 18+ to buy a rifle/shotgun and 21+ to buy a handgun but that doesn't say you have to be of those ages to possess one.

There’s a crucial time period missing in all these stories. The kid left the business he was “guarding.” Why? Where did he go? He tried to return and the cops wouldn’t let him. Why? Why didn’t they stop him then? Then there’s the altercation with the first victim, but what happened immediately before then? How did this altercation start? What did the first victim throw at him? Supposedly there’s a first shot from a handgun just before. What was that about? Who did it? Exactly what happened between the time the cops turned him away and the first altercation is crucial.
 
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