Rural Broadband

[Jimmy Higgins]

Yes and in the meantime, children in rural areas have less access to internet services that children living in small cities, suburbs and urban area take for granted. If nothing else has illuminated that stark difference, surely the pandemic has!

As much as city folk like to believe that country folk aren’t as bright or ambitious or intelligent and sopihisticsted as city folk are, the truth is that people in rural areas need the same internet access and services.

Meanwhile I get 1 Gbps for $40 a month and families in Akron can't get anything at all. At least something can be made to happen in the city. In the rural area, science technology gets in the way. Of course, there are a couple different types of rural, rural and really rural. I'm all for expanding access to Broadband... but there are a few things I'd want in return from the flyover people that have a tendency to vote red.

Why? They are Americans, citizens, who work, live, die, provide you with your food. They are as good a human being as you are. Why do they deserve less? Because you don't like (some of) their politics?

You realize your conditioning of providing a needed service to a population of fellow Americans puts you right next to the way that Trump likes to run the presidency, right?

I want some quid quo pro. I want flyovers to realize that while their area has roadblocks and barriers to access to technology, that those in non-flyover areas have roadblocks and barriers to access to technology... they are just different ones.

 

[Toni]

Why? They are Americans, citizens, who work, live, die, provide you with your food. They are as good a human being as you are. Why do they deserve less? Because you don't like (some of) their politics?

You realize your conditioning of providing a needed service to a population of fellow Americans puts you right next to the way that Trump likes to run the presidency, right?

I want some quid quo pro. I want flyovers to realize that while their area has roadblocks and barriers to access to technology, that those in non-flyover areas have roadblocks and barriers to access to technology... they are just different ones.

Can't tell if you are being ironic here but that sounds exactly like a Trump tactic.

And makes as much sense since you have stated that both flyover and non-flyover areas have roadblocks and barriers, just different ones.

 

[Rhea]

At least something can be made to happen in the city. In the rural area, science technology gets in the way. Of course, there are a couple different types of rural, rural and really rural. I'm all for expanding access to Broadband... but there are a few things I'd want in return from the flyover people that have a tendency to vote red.

Not me. I want them to just have access to the outside world. That's enough payback.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Can't tell if you are being ironic here but that sounds exactly like a Trump tactic.

And makes as much sense since you have stated that both flyover and non-flyover areas have roadblocks and barriers, just different ones.

I want recognition from the working poor in the rural areas to know that there are working poor in the urban areas too.

Not me. I want them to just have access to the outside world. That's enough payback.

With the echo chambers out there? That won't happen.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

There’s a lot of talk about gettting broadband to rural homes. I feel that the time has come that it is actually a utility and necessary to participate in the economy. I don’t support government-installed internet to hunting cabins or anything, but I sure do support making it available on every road that contains more than one year-round house.

Starlink is starting up.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...net-price-at-99-per-month-email-idUSKBN27C30D

My brother had Hughesnet. It sucked.

Of course it did, the birds were too far out. Starlink is in LEO.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

There’s a lot of talk about gettting broadband to rural homes. I feel that the time has come that it is actually a utility and necessary to participate in the economy. I don’t support government-installed internet to hunting cabins or anything, but I sure do support making it available on every road that contains more than one year-round house.

Do you realize how expensive that would be? I can see merit in subsidizing farming areas but most rural living doesn't actually require being out there, why should it be subsidized?

Besides, the issue is becoming moot with Starlink.

I’m not sure what you mean re: ‘most rural living doesn’t require being out there?’

Can you please explain?

I'm saying for most people it's a choice and I don't see that the state should be in the business of subsidizing choices.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

There’s a lot of talk about gettting broadband to rural homes. I feel that the time has come that it is actually a utility and necessary to participate in the economy. I don’t support government-installed internet to hunting cabins or anything, but I sure do support making it available on every road that contains more than one year-round house.

Do you realize how expensive that would be? .

Do you realize how good for the economy that would be? To be able to work from anywhere? Entrepreneurs able to make their home businesses and take online orders. Companies seeking cheaper land for satellite offices.

If it actually makes economic sense it's going to happen anyway, we don't need to make it happen.

 

[laughing dog]

I’m not sure what you mean re: ‘most rural living doesn’t require being out there?’

Can you please explain?

I'm saying for most people it's a choice and I don't see that the state should be in the business of subsidizing choices.

It is a choice to live in city where water and sewage lines are subsidized. It is choice to live in Nevada where the water supply delivery is subsidized by the federal gov't. Mass transit is subsidized. Hell, air travel is subsidized.

The state is in the business of subsidizing choices already.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

https://www.otelco.com/fiber-infrastructure/

For a one mile build with 13 homes, the total project cost would be $20,000 PLUS the $600 for each home that connected to the service, about $2,140 per home – assuming that every home took service. If only 7 of those homes sign up for service, the cost per home served jumps to $3,460. By dividing the cost per home by the net revenue per home of $33, you’ll see that it will take nearly nine years for the provider to break even on the investment.

$2000 per home if everyone agrees. I think it's reasonable.

Note that that's the cost per mile. Around here 13 homes per mile is the sort of density one sees in the old developments at the edges of the city.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Do you realize how good for the economy that would be? To be able to work from anywhere? Entrepreneurs able to make their home businesses and take online orders. Companies seeking cheaper land for satellite offices.

If it actually makes economic sense it's going to happen anyway, we don't need to make it happen.

We have to have broadband for communication... especially schools. The pandemic established that for us. They don't need Gigabit, but 10 Mbps should be standard.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

A lot of the fibers optic cables serving this valley are buried. Seems like every few weeks some idiot somewhere along the line decides to go nuts with a backhoe... usually takes at least a full day to repair.

Well, as long as auctioning backhoe covers the cost of repairing optical cable ....

Yeah. When it comes to backhoe fade you normally have someone to go after. When a storm takes down the wires the company has to eat the repair costs.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

A lot of the fibers optic cables serving this valley are buried. Seems like every few weeks some idiot somewhere along the line decides to go nuts with a backhoe... usually takes at least a full day to repair.

Well, as long as auctioning backhoe covers the cost of repairing optical cable ....

Yeah. When it comes to backhoe fade you normally have someone to go after. When a storm takes down the wires the company has to eat the repair costs.

Calling 811 will get your fiber marked. The fiber is always marked... usually accurately too. Came close to taking out a big one 20 years ago. Locator fucked that one up royally. He got lucky our drilling was delayed so we could avoid a jet fuel gas line.

 

[bleubird]

They put in fiber optic cable in my area in the 90s',like 20 feet from my place,never heard a word about hook-up.

 

[SimpleDon]

I don't see why a program like the rural electrification administration of the Great Depression couldn't be set up to achieve this. It would be the RIA, the rural internet act. It might finally kick-off infrastructure week.

Or RICA, the Rural Internet Connectivity Act. The secret to a good bill is a catchy name and acronym for it. I probably haven't done that yet.

The secret to running a reliable optical cable network is redundancy, run redundant cables each containing redundant optical pairs.

I have watched four different concerns run underground optical cable for TV and internet under my front yard; Comcast, AT&T, Google, and the natural gas company, the Georgia Natural Gas, I think, who ran an optical cable for a test when they put in the new plastic gas line. Only Comcast and AT&T are selling their internet services. Google went nuts offering their internet service for about twice the monthly fee of the others.

In our insane libertarian world, this is the inevitable result, too many options for some, none for others. In a sane world, the government or the postal service would run the cables and lease bandwidth to the lowest three bidders who then compete to add the customers to the service. Like the cell phone and internet services in most of Europe. It results in much lower costs to consumers there for both services.

 

[Rhea]

In our insane libertarian world, this is the inevitable result, too many options for some, none for others. In a sane world, the government or the postal service would run the cables and lease bandwidth to the lowest three bidders who then compete to add the customers to the service. Like the cell phone and internet services in most of Europe. It results in much lower costs to consumers there for both services.

True this. I wish for a sane world.

 

[Toni]

Can't tell if you are being ironic here but that sounds exactly like a Trump tactic.

And makes as much sense since you have stated that both flyover and non-flyover areas have roadblocks and barriers, just different ones.

Really? Because where I sit (small city surrounded by rural area), it seems to me that when people talk about poor, they are always talking about urban poor, not rural poor. I'm not poor and I'm not that rural but I am God Damned sick and tired of oh, so so-called sophisticated Ohioans ffs talking about how rural poor look down on...urban poor. I won't even say the opposite is true. Urban middle class and wealthy are embarrassed and repulsed by urban poor, except where they can be used as deductions on income taxes (tho that's disappeared) and to feel relieved that they are not that bad off. Rural poor are almost all very hardworking people who work 2 or 3 or more jobs. They don't have time to look down on anyone. But Republican brainwashing has worked well, amply enabled by the justifiably reviled Democratic elite to convince them to be frightened of people who are much more like them than not.


I've lived and enjoyed living in large metropolitan areas of major cities. I've lived in small towns/small cities in almost completely rural counties. It was a hard move for me to move back to a small city far from the amenities of larger cities/metropolitan areas. Really hard. But I really do appreciate how hard people work out in flyover country where I've spent most of my life and how often that all of that hard work just buys you the chance to do it again another year. Now, rural areas have become infested with enormous drug problems---something that's been the case for over 20 years. The problems that rural poor and urban poor face are much more similar than not.

The smug assurance that urban dwellers seem to have that rural people are bringing them down is pathetic and ignorant.

I want recognition from the working poor in the rural areas to know that there are working poor in the urban areas too.

Not me. I want them to just have access to the outside world. That's enough payback.

With the echo chambers out there? That won't happen.

FFS Try climbing out of your own echo chamber and get your head out of your ass and quit believing the people who grow crops and raise livestock are the cast from Deliverance.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Yeah. When it comes to backhoe fade you normally have someone to go after. When a storm takes down the wires the company has to eat the repair costs.

Calling 811 will get your fiber marked. The fiber is always marked... usually accurately too. Came close to taking out a big one 20 years ago. Locator fucked that one up royally. He got lucky our drilling was delayed so we could avoid a jet fuel gas line.

That could have gone very badly indeed!

However, I was talking about the financial aspects. Even if both types of damage happen equally often (and that's certainly not the case, buried utilities have very little down time) the storm fade costs the company a lot more than backhoe fade.

 

[Toni]

I don't see why a program like the rural electrification administration of the Great Depression couldn't be set up to achieve this. It would be the RIA, the rural internet act. It might finally kick-off infrastructure week.

Or RICA, the Rural Internet Connectivity Act. The secret to a good bill is a catchy name and acronym for it. I probably haven't done that yet.

The secret to running a reliable optical cable network is redundancy, run redundant cables each containing redundant optical pairs.

I have watched four different concerns run underground optical cable for TV and internet under my front yard; Comcast, AT&T, Google, and the natural gas company, the Georgia Natural Gas, I think, who ran an optical cable for a test when they put in the new plastic gas line. Only Comcast and AT&T are selling their internet services. Google went nuts offering their internet service for about twice the monthly fee of the others.

In our insane libertarian world, this is the inevitable result, too many options for some, none for others. In a sane world, the government or the postal service would run the cables and lease bandwidth to the lowest three bidders who then compete to add the customers to the service. Like the cell phone and internet services in most of Europe. It results in much lower costs to consumers there for both services.

Exactly.

I will say that some rural areas and rural people will resist the idea simply to try to slow down development in their area--a genuine and serious concern. Lots of city folk move to the country, wanting the peace and quiet and beauty and not wanting to have to deal with the smell of livestock and the lack of amenities. Remove the lack of amenities and suddenly those thousands of acres of fertile farmland become sprawling stripmalls and Starbucks and ticky tack housing developments...

That said, yes, to Don's post. But let's leave some wild spaces...