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Russian Invasion of Ukraine - tactics and logistics

Jayjay

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Like I said before, these are just anecdotal cases which don't reflect the overall motivation of the army. You can find similar videos from the other side.
No, it's not anecdotal, these are real soldiers quitting on camera.
"Anecdotal" doesn't mean they're false. It means that they're not proof of overall motivation. Just like video and captured phone calls of Russians doing the same doesn't mean that the Russian army is on the verge of collapse.

Ukrainian regime is running out of professional soldiers. The ones on these videos were mobilized, given AK74 and sent to fight against professional army. They can't operate any equipment beyond that AK74 . Some idiots are from territorial defense who signed up to "defend" their towns only, with small arms only, but then were sent to real war. They have no training whatsoever, some probably too old and unfit to be trained anyway.
Yet they've managed to put up a good fight against the 2nd most powerful army in the world. That speaks volumes about their motivation.

Ukrainian "army" is close to collapsing. In fact, the only reason it has not happened yet is because they are lying to themselves and the West. Ukrainians are not aware how badly they are doing.
Having said that, ukrainian regime and their western masters are slowly changing their song preparing for capitulation. Some goverment critters report catastrophic losses in the range of 1000 soldiers per day. Even western state media leaks about talks about Ukrainian territorial concessions.
Ukraine has already exceeded all expections, and it's impossible to tell how long they can hang on. Until they actually do collapse, the weapons supplied are not going to be wasted: every dead Russian soldier or destroyed artillery piece is one less soldier and cannon less in the next dumbass war Russia is going to start.
 

fromderinside

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When faced with the possibility of death people do strange things like shoot up into the air from trenches, murder those who order them into battle, traditionally called fragging, run away, freeze up, commit suicide, etc. Some even become heros. It's war. Most of us who've faced it have either thought about or acted as described above. it's expected. Actually it's why US troops are trained the way they are to obey and to show initiative. Noncoms are the body of American war. They hold others together, they are the reason there is so much fighting among trainees and they are those capable of leading in times of stress even when threatened.

I remember being allowed to carry on even though I was reluctant to bear arms at first. I was assigned to concentrate on getting familiar with guns by stripping them down, and refurbishing them for hours each day until l finally volunteered to participate in training with them. I was encouraged to take as much responsibility as I felt able to. I accepted RCPO with no protest and great pride. I accepted reassignment when I stepped over the line. I let others express their anger without striking back. Yet I learned to defend myself or chose to take a blow to avoid letting things get out of control. It was all by training design and intention. I participated in many a shower score settlings. I became a leader.
 

Jayjay

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The Ukrainians don’t want you there.
Oh they do, they vehemently do. In Eastern Ukraine.
Even pro-ukrainian part is changing their mind once they saw what ukrainian army did.
The eastern part was under occupation for 8 years, and has been fed with incessant Russian propaganda since then. And anyone who was even mildly pro-Ukrainian left for their own safety if they could.

Of course, the same thing will happen in the newly occupied territories with time. Anyone how opposes Russia gets tortured or killed. So everyone is going to just shut up, and try to survive. And Russia will ship new people from Crimea and elsewhere. This is an age old strategy from Soviet and Tsarist times. But that doesn't make it any less despicable.

And what did the Ukrainian army do, that Russian army didn't do 100 times worse?
 

Jayjay

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The Ukrainians don’t want you there.
Oh they do, they vehemently do. In Eastern Ukraine.
No, they don't. According to an opinion poll conducted in Ukrainian-controlled Donbas in 2017, only 2% wanted it to be part of Russia, and another 1% an independent state. 78% preferred to remain part of Ukraine (and 73% preferred even the Russian-occupied territories to be part of Ukraine, but of course, in this case they didn't ask the residents of the "people's republics").

And it's reasonable to assume that people in Zhaporizhia, Kherson or Odessa want to be part of Russia even less. When Russian troops took Kherson, they were greeted with people protesting and telling them to go home.

 

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All of a sudden american mercenaries are against war and speak russian.
Wow! but asian-american needs to work on prononciation more. I am sure he will have enough time in russian prison to improve.
 

barbos

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The Ukrainians don’t want you there.
Oh they do, they vehemently do. In Eastern Ukraine.
No, they don't. According to an opinion poll conducted in Ukrainian-controlled Donbas in 2017, only 2% wanted it to be part of Russia, and another 1% an independent state. 78% preferred to remain part of Ukraine (and 73% preferred even the Russian-occupied territories to be part of Ukraine, but of course, in this case they didn't ask the residents of the "people's republics").

And it's reasonable to assume that people in Zhaporizhia, Kherson or Odessa want to be part of Russia even less. When Russian troops took Kherson, they were greeted with people protesting and telling them to go home.


Heavily edited, undated, place unconfirmed. Uktrainian propaganda garbage.
Having said that, I have never said there were no nazi-sympathizers among formerly ukrainian territories. For Example Azov regiment people for the most part are scam from Eastern Ukraine.
After all, it's a denazification operation.
 

Patooka

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Heavily edited, undated, place unconfirmed. Uktrainian propaganda garbage.
Having said that, I have never said there were no nazi-sympathizers among formerly ukrainian territories. For Example Azov regiment people for the most part are scam from Eastern Ukraine.
After all, it's a denazification operation.

And yet another instance of you ignoring Putin and his love for the Wagner Group.

Go home, barbos. You're drunk.
 
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Jayjay

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The Ukrainians don’t want you there.
Oh they do, they vehemently do. In Eastern Ukraine.
No, they don't. According to an opinion poll conducted in Ukrainian-controlled Donbas in 2017, only 2% wanted it to be part of Russia, and another 1% an independent state. 78% preferred to remain part of Ukraine (and 73% preferred even the Russian-occupied territories to be part of Ukraine, but of course, in this case they didn't ask the residents of the "people's republics").

And it's reasonable to assume that people in Zhaporizhia, Kherson or Odessa want to be part of Russia even less. When Russian troops took Kherson, they were greeted with people protesting and telling them to go home.


Heavily edited, undated, place unconfirmed. Uktrainian propaganda garbage.

Funny how "Ukrainian propaganda" turns out to be true 99% of the time, while the opposite is true of Russian propaganda.

The location was confirmed to be in Kherson March 21st.



Location is in Kherson city near the adminstrative building. You can check it from Google streetview if you don't believe me. And of course, Al Jazeera's quick edit is itself not the primary source, it was just the first one that came up when looking for some video of it. I don't keep a record or follow every single event that happens in the war, but these protests (many of them, also in other parts of the city) were widely reported. Of course Russia has since cracked down on the protests, but it shows the people didn't want them there.

Having said that, I have never said there were no nazi-sympathizers among formerly ukrainian territories. For Example Azov regiment people for the most part are scam from Eastern Ukraine.
After all, it's a denazification operation.
Here we go again with this imaginary nazi nonsense. Russian propaganda calls anyone who fights them a nazi, whether they're from the east, the west, the south, foreign legion, or outer space. :LOL:
 

Jayjay

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There are also polls from the Russian-occupied "people's republics", that show that even they for the most part wanted to be reunited with Ukraine rather than Russia:


In the separatist-held areas of the Donbas, about 55% of the respondents expressed a preference for being part of the Ukrainian state. This is very significant for the next round of the negotiations as this wish for reintegration is an important corrective to Russia’s official rhetoric and public perceptions in the West.

Of the overall majority in favour of staying within Ukraine, roughly a third of the respondents in both years voiced a preference for an autonomy status within Ukraine. Meanwhile, about 21% of the respondents in 2016 said that the territories should return to Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts without any special status. In 2019, 24% chose this option. Though small in absolute numbers, this is a statistically significant change that indicates that the idea of returning to the pre-war status has gained in popularity.
 

Harry Bosch

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The Ukrainians don’t want you there.
Oh they do, they vehemently do. In Eastern Ukraine.
No, they don't. According to an opinion poll conducted in Ukrainian-controlled Donbas in 2017, only 2% wanted it to be part of Russia, and another 1% an independent state. 78% preferred to remain part of Ukraine (and 73% preferred even the Russian-occupied territories to be part of Ukraine, but of course, in this case they didn't ask the residents of the "people's republics").

And it's reasonable to assume that people in Zhaporizhia, Kherson or Odessa want to be part of Russia even less. When Russian troops took Kherson, they were greeted with people protesting and telling them to go home.


Heavily edited, undated, place unconfirmed. Uktrainian propaganda garbage.

Funny how "Ukrainian propaganda" turns out to be true 99% of the time, while the opposite is true of Russian propaganda.

The location was confirmed to be in Kherson March 21st.



Location is in Kherson city near the adminstrative building. You can check it from Google streetview if you don't believe me. And of course, Al Jazeera's quick edit is itself not the primary source, it was just the first one that came up when looking for some video of it. I don't keep a record or follow every single event that happens in the war, but these protests (many of them, also in other parts of the city) were widely reported. Of course Russia has since cracked down on the protests, but it shows the people didn't want them there.

Having said that, I have never said there were no nazi-sympathizers among formerly ukrainian territories. For Example Azov regiment people for the most part are scam from Eastern Ukraine.
After all, it's a denazification operation.
Here we go again with this imaginary nazi nonsense. Russian propaganda calls anyone who fights them a nazi, whether they're from the east, the west, the south, foreign legion, or outer space. :LOL:

Well, it's a brilliant strategy. Take over the media. Convince your gullible citizens that foreign media is fake. Convince your gullible citizens that meanie Nazis are on your border. Send in your troops. Doesn't matter how many of your troops are killed. You can enrich your self and be hailed a hero.
 

Elixir

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You can enrich your self and be hailed a hero.
Or you can earn a modest stipend just for playing along with Putler’s lies on the internet, like @barbos does.
Not bad work, if you can get it. Just watch a bunch of American television until you’re somewhat fluent, then troll away.
 
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Harry Bosch

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You can enrich your self and be hailed a hero.
Or you can earn a modest stipend just for playing along with Putler’s lies on the internet, like @barbos does.
Not bad work, if you can get it. Just watch a bunch of American television until you’re somewhat fluent, then troll away.
We'll never know for sure. However, I'm believing more and more that Barbos's beliefs constitute a majority of what Russians believe. I don't think that he's only sprouting his creed to get paid. There are a few right wing russian bloggers that sprout the same nonsense. And they also express outrage at the Russian military failures also. They wouldn't be mocking the ineffectiveness of Russian tactics if they were simply following Putin's directives. I don't think that this war will end when Putin dies someday or is deposed. I think that the remaining Russians in Russia (the ones with brains have left) want war. I don't think that they care if their economy worsens. I say this because I don't think that everyone in the west is preparing for the long war that the Russians are. I really don't think that the Russians will stop until they can't continue getting new military weapons. They aren't going to run out of conscripts. We have to find a way to choke off what is funding their war: oil and gas.
 
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Elixir

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I don't think that everyone in the west is preparing for the long war that the Russians are.

No doubt about that!
Americans have already mostly moved on, and have come to blame Biden for every ill effect of Putler’s war. Russians are a lot more pain-tolerant than Murkins, even if all else was equal.
Not that it matters, but I don’t find our shill expressing outrage, or even acknowledging, the abysmal failures of the supposedly great red army.
 

bilby

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You can enrich your self and be hailed a hero.
Or you can earn a modest stipend just for playing along with Putler’s lies on the internet, like @barbos does.
Not bad work, if you can get it. Just watch a bunch of American television until you’re somewhat fluent, then troll away.
We'll never know for sure. However, I'm believing more and more that Barbos's beliefs constitute a majority of what Russians believe. I don't think that he's only sprouting his creed to get paid. There are a few right wing russian bloggers that sprout the same nonsense. And they also express outrage at the Russian military failures also. They wouldn't be mocking the ineffectiveness of Russian tactics if they were simply following Putin's directives. I don't think that this war will end when Putin dies someday or is deposed. I think that the remaining Russians in Russia (the ones with brains have left) want war. I don't think that they care if their economy worsens. I say this because I don't think that everyone in the west is preparing for the long war that the Russians are. I really don't think that the Russians will stop until they can't continue getting new military weapons. They aren't going to run out of conscripts. We have to find a way to choke off what is funding their war: oil and gas.
We found it in the 1950s.

It turns out that fact resistant humans have enough influence to effectively block access to cheap, reliable and abundant energy.

Their dystopian dream of a civilisation that uses almost no energy is one that few are prepared to attempt; And their plan to get reliable energy from intermittent and diffuse sources founders on its detachment from reality. So we are left depending on Russians and Arabs to help us destroy our atmosphere while powering our civilisation.

The solution to this is obvious. The science, technology and engineering elements have been done, and the only barriers to implementing it at any time in the last sixty years have been political ones - people don’t wanna. Because they believe things that aren’t true.
 

Patooka

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I say this because I don't think that everyone in the west is preparing for the long war that the Russians are.
I mentioned this before, but public sentiment isn't really necessary for the west's involvement. Weapons companies can just call up the politicians that they own and ensure the purchasing of gear goes through. Unfortunately public opinion doesn't matter much when it comes to how governments decide foreign policy.
 

Copernicus

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...The solution to this is obvious. The science, technology and engineering elements have been done, and the only barriers to implementing it at any time in the last sixty years have been political ones - people don’t wanna. Because they believe things that aren’t true.

Don't forget practical--actually doing the implementation. Sometimes implementation is very expensive and slow to become widely available. The political inertia isn't just because people believe things that aren't true. They also want to do what past generations have done and kick the can down the road. They don't want to make radical changes to their style of living that don't have immediate results. Very often those changes can cause severe economic disruption. Let subsequent generations deal with the problem.
 

bilby

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...The solution to this is obvious. The science, technology and engineering elements have been done, and the only barriers to implementing it at any time in the last sixty years have been political ones - people don’t wanna. Because they believe things that aren’t true.

Don't forget practical--actually doing the implementation. Sometimes implementation is very expensive and slow to become widely available. The political inertia isn't just because people believe things that aren't true. They also want to do what past generations have done and kick the can down the road. They don't want to make radical changes to their style of living that don't have immediate results. Very often those changes can cause severe economic disruption. Let subsequent generations deal with the problem.
There’s no practical difficulty in building a nuclear power plant in forty or fifty months - it’s been done. It’s usually much slower, but again, that’s a political problem, not a practical one. Indeed, it should easily be possible to halve (or better) the 39 month record for construction, if we were mass producing reasonable numbers of the things, and not reinventing the wheel for each new project.

France took about a decade to convert their entire electricity generation from fossil fuel to nuclear (plus some hydropower), and that was with 1980s technology and techniques. Any similarly advanced nation today could repeat (or improve upon) that feat. But we don’t wanna. Because people believe things that aren’t true.
 

barbos

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Funny how "Ukrainian propaganda" turns out to be true 99% of the time
You must be kidding.
having said that, lets assume video is correct and omitted context is irrelevant. What exactly is your problem with that?
Seriously what? Russian forces just took over a large city, bunch of motherfuckers decided to make a provocation and take a video. Fine, has anybody died? NO!
What is your fucking problem? Where have you been when these nazis burned bunch of pro-russian protesters in Odessa in 2014? They are all dead!
Whereas these assholes are all alive and if you ask me, I am amazed how restrained these russian soldiers are. The fact these pro-nazi degenerates decided that it would be safe to protest is a testament to that. Had russian police shoot dead few of them on camera it would have served well against such provocation in the future.

I remember a lot of videos of "ukrainians" confronting russian "invaders" and your stupid reaction to it saying how brave these ukrainians are. Of course they are brave because that scam knows that russians will not shoot them dead like ukro-nazis do.

I have already mentioned stories about ukrainians who left Mariupol before shit happened. How they were saying "Russia this, russia that". Then they came back and people who stayed in the city explained to them that it was ukrainian army killing civilians, not russians. And explanation involved some beating I understand.
It's one thing to be beaten educated by invaders and quite another when your neighbors doing the beating.
Sorry man, your propaganda garbage is not popular in Eastern Ukraine.




Meanwhile some american critters are getting real info.
Here is a plan Russia will find interesting.
 
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Jayjay

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You can enrich your self and be hailed a hero.
Or you can earn a modest stipend just for playing along with Putler’s lies on the internet, like @barbos does.
Not bad work, if you can get it. Just watch a bunch of American television until you’re somewhat fluent, then troll away.
Nope. This is far too niche a forum to attract anyone working for money. The audience is too small. For the real pros, all you have to do is search Twitter for "Ukraine" or other applicable keywords.
 

Jayjay

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You can enrich your self and be hailed a hero.
Or you can earn a modest stipend just for playing along with Putler’s lies on the internet, like @barbos does.
Not bad work, if you can get it. Just watch a bunch of American television until you’re somewhat fluent, then troll away.
We'll never know for sure. However, I'm believing more and more that Barbos's beliefs constitute a majority of what Russians believe. I don't think that he's only sprouting his creed to get paid. There are a few right wing russian bloggers that sprout the same nonsense. And they also express outrage at the Russian military failures also. They wouldn't be mocking the ineffectiveness of Russian tactics if they were simply following Putin's directives. I don't think that this war will end when Putin dies someday or is deposed. I think that the remaining Russians in Russia (the ones with brains have left) want war. I don't think that they care if their economy worsens. I say this because I don't think that everyone in the west is preparing for the long war that the Russians are. I really don't think that the Russians will stop until they can't continue getting new military weapons. They aren't going to run out of conscripts. We have to find a way to choke off what is funding their war: oil and gas.
That's tricky, because sanctions seem to be just pushing up oil and gas prices, which means that even if Russia is selling less, it will make more money per gallon. And there is no way to force India or China to join the sanction, on the contrary, they have a strong incentive to buy cheap(er) energy from Russia when Europe doesn't.

EU could not agree on oil and gas sanctions, and probably won't try again. Cutting off gas would be more effective than cutting crude oil, because oil can be shipped more easily with tankers, but Germany doesn't have the guts to make that call. And now it seems that Russia has cut the delivery of gas to EU to half on the pretext of "maintenance", although the real reason might be to prevent countries from replenishing their reserves.

I think Europe should've cut off the gas in the first month of the war, and bet on their reserves lasting enough for Russia to blink. Or even better, they shouldn't have become so dependent on Russian gas supplies in the first place. As for oil, the next best thing is to target shipping by banning all Russian vessels or companies who transport Russian crude oil anywhere in the world.
 

Jayjay

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Funny how "Ukrainian propaganda" turns out to be true 99% of the time
You must be kidding.
Exaggerating at most. The ukrainian propaganda is far more effective than Russian one because it's mostly true. Russian propaganda on the other hand seems to be based on obvious lies, like "nazis staged Bucha massacre". In Russia, people believe it, because that's all you're being fed by the state-owned media, and even if some of you don't, that's the regime's way of telling that they can get away with anything.

In free countries, with free press, facts get checked and lies get exposed. That's why even propagandists have to be mindful of what they say. Ukraine surely omits details like casualties or failures, but whatever it does say, is pretty much accurate. They don't fake footage and then get caught doing so like Russia.


having said that, lets assume video is correct and omitted context is irrelevant. What exactly is your problem with that?
Seriously what? Russian forces just took over a large city, bunch of motherfuckers decided to make a provocation and take a video. Fine, has anybody died? NO!
The point is that the locals didn't want Russia there. They still don't. Even the half the people in "people's republics" of Donetsk and Luhansk, who have been brainwashed for several years, didn't want to be part of Russia.

What is your fucking problem? Where have you been when these nazis burned bunch of pro-russian protesters in Odessa in 2014? They are all dead!
The Odessa union building fire was a tragic accident. But keep in mind that it was instigated by a pro-Russian (or maybe a Russian agent?) "protester" firing at crowds the previous day. He's now still a free man, having received asylum in Russia.

The pro-Maidan people went to burn down the anti-Maidan protest tents, probably with no intention to kill anyone, though some assholes may have wanted violence. But when the protesters fled inside the building, someone used molotov cocktail to set it on fire. It's utterly condemnable, on both sides (apparently the anti-Maidan people were shooting from the rooftop), but eye witnesses say that the pro-Maidan people helped get some people who were trapped in the building to get out. It's clear that the whole group wasn't out there to murder everyone.

This unfortunate incident has been blown beyond all proportion in Russian propaganda. It in no way justifies any kind of invasion or occupation.

Whereas these assholes are all alive and if you ask me, I am amazed how restrained these russian soldiers are. The fact these pro-nazi degenerates decided that it would be safe to protest is a testament to that. Had russian police shoot dead few of them on camera it would have served well against such provocation in the future.

I remember a lot of videos of "ukrainians" confronting russian "invaders" and your stupid reaction to it saying how brave these ukrainians are. Of course they are brave because that scam knows that russians will not shoot them dead like ukro-nazis do.
I guess that the fact that they're not protesting anymore proves that the Russians are shooting them dead if they do? :rolleyes:

You can't have it both ways... if they don't protest, you say that's because they love Russia, and if they do protest, then you claim that's because they know Russia won't shoot them (even if they obviously do, they just do it in the shadows).

And drop the nazi bullshit. You have no evidence that even a single person in any of the Kherson protests was a nazi. And the term "Ukro-nazi" is something that's only used by Russian propagandists.

I have already mentioned stories about ukrainians who left Mariupol before shit happened. How they were saying "Russia this, russia that". Then they came back and people who stayed in the city explained to them that it was ukrainian army killing civilians, not russians. And explanation involved some beating I understand.
It's one thing to be beaten educated by invaders and quite another when your neighbors doing the beating.
Sorry man, your propaganda garbage is not popular in Eastern Ukraine.
So your "proof" of people's love for Russia is that anyone who says the truth gets a beating? To me it seems that just makes my point. It makes no difference whether the beatings come from Russian forces, or the collaborators and agents who they employ.

That is, if the whole story isn't completely made up, like Russian propaganda usually is.

Meanwhile some american critters are getting real info.
Here is a plan Russia will find interesting.
An utterly lopsided agreement that would only guarantee another war in a few years. But even then, it has points that Russia would never agree to, such as withdrawing troops from Kherson and Zhaporizhia, or an internationally monitored referendum on the status of Donbas.

However, the point isn't for west to force a peace. The point is that Ukraine needs to make that call because it's their people being killed and their land being occupied. It won't work any other way, whatever the eventual terms are.
 

Harry Bosch

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Funny how "Ukrainian propaganda" turns out to be true 99% of the time
You must be kidding.
having said that, lets assume video is correct and omitted context is irrelevant. What exactly is your problem with that?
Seriously what? Russian forces just took over a large city, bunch of motherfuckers decided to make a provocation and take a video. Fine, has anybody died? NO!
What is your fucking problem? Where have you been when these nazis burned bunch of pro-russian protesters in Odessa in 2014? They are all dead!
Whereas these assholes are all alive and if you ask me, I am amazed how restrained these russian soldiers are. The fact these pro-nazi degenerates decided that it would be safe to protest is a testament to that. Had russian police shoot dead few of them on camera it would have served well against such provocation in the future.

I remember a lot of videos of "ukrainians" confronting russian "invaders" and your stupid reaction to it saying how brave these ukrainians are. Of course they are brave because that scam knows that russians will not shoot them dead like ukro-nazis do.

I have already mentioned stories about ukrainians who left Mariupol before shit happened. How they were saying "Russia this, russia that". Then they came back and people who stayed in the city explained to them that it was ukrainian army killing civilians, not russians. And explanation involved some beating I understand.
It's one thing to be beaten educated by invaders and quite another when your neighbors doing the beating.
Sorry man, your propaganda garbage is not popular in Eastern Ukraine.




Meanwhile some american critters are getting real info.
Here is a plan Russia will find interesting.
The problem with the "agreed upon peace plan" above is the sections requiring to Ukraine to disarm. This would require them trusting Russia to not invade again! How is that possible? Russian word is shit. Putin has zero credibility and deserves zero trust. I'm open to any possible compromise that would stop this war and encourage invaders to return to their home. But any compromise needs to be agreed upon by the Ukrainians. They are the ones brave enough to fight the Russians and are doing all the suffering. The world owes a great debt to Ukraine for blunting the Russian invasion and destroying so much of their offensive capability. I'm absolutely certain that if Russia had rapidly conquered Ukraine as it intended, that they would have attacked Poland, Baltic states and other states that they want back.
 

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The problem with the "agreed upon peace plan" above is the sections requiring to Ukraine to disarm. This would require them trusting Russia to not invade again! How is that possible? Russian word is shit.
I can assure you that Russia will invade Ukraine again if they try to arm themselves again.
And it is your word which is shit. You promised not to expand NATO to the East!
And Putin promised to invade if necessary in 2008. He is a man of his word
 

barbos

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Another misfortune, russian calibers missiles hit ukrainian command post...... during busy office hours brain storming - 50 high ranking officers including generals dead.
Russian news wrote it a little bit ambiguous :), it could be understood as if 50 generals were killed. I suppose russian generals looked at apparent score and decided we need to even it and so they did.
 

Patooka

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Another misfortune, russian calibers missiles hit ukrainian command post...... during busy office hours brain storming - 50 high ranking officers including generals dead.
Russian news wrote it a little bit ambiguous :), it could be understood as if 50 generals were killed. I suppose russian generals looked at apparent score and decided we need to even it and so they did.
Yeah, but I heard the new AS7-D Atlas mechs that Ukraine received from the EU are tearing up Russian armour left right and centre.

I'm mean, if you are going to live in fantasy, you might as well go all the way. (Fun fact - the AS7 was designed by Alexander Kerensky ;))
 

barbos

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It sounds too good to be true but apparently these ~50 generals&lesser were the least incompetent part of VSU higher ranks who gathered together in order to plan retreat from Severodonetsk where boatloads of ukranian soldiers are semi-circled by the russian army.
 

barbos

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Meanwhile, idiots in Lithuania are trying to declare war to Russia. The war in which NATO will no legal right to help them.
 

zorq

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There is something ... off... about Russians who complain about NATO expansion. And I can see only two reasons for this.

Option1: Russians are too stupid to understand what a defensive alliance entails. This option is valid because there is no real reason for a peaceful people to care about defensive alliances or their size or location. Which leads us to ...

Option2: Russians are so violent and duplicitous that they know they can't help but to attack their neighbors. Even neighbors whom they have given written promises to not attack, like Ukraine with the Budapest Memorandum. So these Russians will understand that, to other peaceful countries, a defensive alliance has no meaning or purpose and constitutes no threat. But these smart Russians have the intelligence to understand that they themselves aren't peaceful people and deep down crave unnecessary violence which actually DOES make NATO a threat. These Russians can't help but to crave murder and mayham so that they can rape, pillage, and steal.

So which is it? Are Russians too fucking violent for this world or too fucking stupid?

Maybe there is a third option (besides 'both') and I'm just not seeing it.
 

Harry Bosch

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The problem with the "agreed upon peace plan" above is the sections requiring to Ukraine to disarm. This would require them trusting Russia to not invade again! How is that possible? Russian word is shit.
I can assure you that Russia will invade Ukraine again if they try to arm themselves again.
And it is your word which is shit. You promised not to expand NATO to the East!
And Putin promised to invade if necessary in 2008. He is a man of his word
Yes, you make my point. Putler will attack for any made up reasons. Doesn't have to be rearming. Russia has local drought for whatever reason, border area has water, Putler half-heartedly negotiates for water, the Russia invents Nazi threat, then just invades. You see the issue right? Russia has eliminated their "soft power". Countries don't trust Putler. Russian word is shit.
 

Harry Bosch

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Meanwhile, idiots in Lithuania are trying to declare war to Russia. The war in which NATO will no legal right to help them.
What are you talking about here? The so-called "right of free transit" is allowed for nations that are in peace. Countries that are at war and not trusted don't get the benefit of right of free transit. Another example of the Russian loss of soft power.
 

Harry Bosch

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There is something ... off... about Russians who complain about NATO expansion. And I can see only two reasons for this.

Option1: Russians are too stupid to understand what a defensive alliance entails. This option is valid because there is no real reason for a peaceful people to care about defensive alliances or their size or location. Which leads us to ...

Option2: Russians are so violent and duplicitous that they know they can't help but to attack their neighbors. Even neighbors whom they have given written promises to not attack, like Ukraine with the Budapest Memorandum. So these Russians will understand that, to other peaceful countries, a defensive alliance has no meaning or purpose and constitutes no threat. But these smart Russians have the intelligence to understand that they themselves aren't peaceful people and deep down crave unnecessary violence which actually DOES make NATO a threat. These Russians can't help but to crave murder and mayham so that they can rape, pillage, and steal.

So which is it? Are Russians too fucking violent for this world or too fucking stupid?

Maybe there is a third option (besides 'both') and I'm just not seeing it.
I think that it's option 2. I don't think that the Russians are dumb. They are clearly very imperialist and want land. And they see no reason to respect past treaties, recognize other countries sovereignty, and adherence of international law.
 

TV and credit cards

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There is something ... off... about Russians who complain about NATO expansion. And I can see only two reasons for this.

Option1: Russians are too stupid to understand what a defensive alliance entails. This option is valid because there is no real reason for a peaceful people to care about defensive alliances or their size or location. Which leads us to ...

Option2: Russians are so violent and duplicitous that they know they can't help but to attack their neighbors. Even neighbors whom they have given written promises to not attack, like Ukraine with the Budapest Memorandum. So these Russians will understand that, to other peaceful countries, a defensive alliance has no meaning or purpose and constitutes no threat. But these smart Russians have the intelligence to understand that they themselves aren't peaceful people and deep down crave unnecessary violence which actually DOES make NATO a threat. These Russians can't help but to crave murder and mayham so that they can rape, pillage, and steal.

So which is it? Are Russians too fucking violent for this world or too fucking stupid?

Maybe there is a third option (besides 'both') and I'm just not seeing it.
I think that it's option 2. I don't think that the Russians are dumb. They are clearly very imperialist and want land. And they see no reason to respect past treaties, recognize other countries sovereignty, and adherence of international law.
I have to wonder what role generations of propaganda took in shaping opinions. What role cultural differences took too; the importance one’s word, written or verbal, or the value of human life, and how this balances against national pride. We tend to view these things through our own eyes, taking for granted there is one standard we are all going by.
 

barbos

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Meanwhile, idiots in Lithuania are trying to declare war to Russia. The war in which NATO will no legal right to help them.
What are you talking about here? The so-called "right of free transit" is allowed for nations that are in peace. Countries that are at war and not trusted don't get the benefit of right of free transit. Another example of the Russian loss of soft power.
Yep, Lithuania is at war with Russia now :)

Meanwhile in other news, M777 howitzers proved to be useless garbage.
Prone to breaking by themselves and having no protection and since Ukraine was not supplied with spare parts even shrapnel can make it inoperable.
Now I understand that video of russian Krasnopol shell "destroying" 2 M777 in one shot. They intentionally hit between them, very cost effective.

Experts say, these howitzers were not designed for artillery duels at all.
 

Harry Bosch

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Meanwhile, idiots in Lithuania are trying to declare war to Russia. The war in which NATO will no legal right to help them.
What are you talking about here? The so-called "right of free transit" is allowed for nations that are in peace. Countries that are at war and not trusted don't get the benefit of right of free transit. Another example of the Russian loss of soft power.
Yep, Lithuania is at war with Russia now :)

Meanwhile in other news, M777 howitzers proved to be useless garbage.
Prone to breaking by themselves and having no protection and since Ukraine was not supplied with spare parts even shrapnel can make it inoperable.
Now I understand that video of russian Krasnopol shell "destroying" 2 M777 in one shot. They intentionally hit between them, very cost effective.

Experts say, these howitzers were not designed for artillery duels at all.
Riiight! Just like your claim in the very beginning that Javelins are no problem for Russian tanks! However, if you are right, Russia should be happy to allow the west to resupply Ukraine with more western arms.
 

Harry Bosch

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There is something ... off... about Russians who complain about NATO expansion. And I can see only two reasons for this.

Option1: Russians are too stupid to understand what a defensive alliance entails. This option is valid because there is no real reason for a peaceful people to care about defensive alliances or their size or location. Which leads us to ...

Option2: Russians are so violent and duplicitous that they know they can't help but to attack their neighbors. Even neighbors whom they have given written promises to not attack, like Ukraine with the Budapest Memorandum. So these Russians will understand that, to other peaceful countries, a defensive alliance has no meaning or purpose and constitutes no threat. But these smart Russians have the intelligence to understand that they themselves aren't peaceful people and deep down crave unnecessary violence which actually DOES make NATO a threat. These Russians can't help but to crave murder and mayham so that they can rape, pillage, and steal.

So which is it? Are Russians too fucking violent for this world or too fucking stupid?

Maybe there is a third option (besides 'both') and I'm just not seeing it.
I think that it's option 2. I don't think that the Russians are dumb. They are clearly very imperialist and want land. And they see no reason to respect past treaties, recognize other countries sovereignty, and adherence of international law.
I have to wonder what role generations of propaganda took in shaping opinions. What role cultural differences took too; the importance one’s word, written or verbal, or the value of human life, and how this balances against national pride. We tend to view these things through our own eyes, taking for granted there is one standard we are all going by.
Oh, there is no real difference between the people of Russia and Americans. We are all gullible and can be easily manipulated. Imagine if Q took over in Texas; evicted all moderates and those on the left; then set up secret police to terrorize those who were uncomfortable with the remaining majority; Q could do whatever he wants. Same in Russia. IMO, Putler is just telling the remaining Russians what they want to hear.

20 minutes after I wrote the above, I saw the below story:


A large group of Texans continue to believe that the 2020 election was stolen. It doesn't take a lot of evidence to convince a gullible group almost anything. I'm not surprised in the least that Putler is able to convince a sizable group in Russia that Ukrainians are being mean to them and are Nazis.
 
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barbos

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The Odessa union building fire was a tragic accident.
Really?
There was nothing accidental about it. Current ukrainian regime was responsible for it.
In case you were not aware, police was present and did nothing to prevent it and later did nothing to investigate and punish perpetrators. Once Odessa is back in Russia they will try to start investigation and bring perpetrators to justice.
2014 Donetsk bombing was accident too?
 

barbos

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Meanwhile, idiots in Lithuania are trying to declare war to Russia. The war in which NATO will no legal right to help them.
What are you talking about here? The so-called "right of free transit" is allowed for nations that are in peace. Countries that are at war and not trusted don't get the benefit of right of free transit. Another example of the Russian loss of soft power.
Yep, Lithuania is at war with Russia now :)

Meanwhile in other news, M777 howitzers proved to be useless garbage.
Prone to breaking by themselves and having no protection and since Ukraine was not supplied with spare parts even shrapnel can make it inoperable.
Now I understand that video of russian Krasnopol shell "destroying" 2 M777 in one shot. They intentionally hit between them, very cost effective.

Experts say, these howitzers were not designed for artillery duels at all.
Riiight! Just like your claim in the very beginning that Javelins are no problem for Russian tanks! However, if you are right, Russia should be happy to allow the west to resupply Ukraine with more western arms.
Why should Russia be happy about you causing more ukrainians to die?
 

Elixir

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“idiots in Lithuania are trying to declare war to Russia”

Love it.
Now I have a visual image of drooling morons frenetically running about, trying to figure out how to “declare war to Russia”.

The more incoherent Barbos becomes, the funnier he gets.
 

Harry Bosch

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Meanwhile, idiots in Lithuania are trying to declare war to Russia. The war in which NATO will no legal right to help them.
What are you talking about here? The so-called "right of free transit" is allowed for nations that are in peace. Countries that are at war and not trusted don't get the benefit of right of free transit. Another example of the Russian loss of soft power.
Yep, Lithuania is at war with Russia now :)

Meanwhile in other news, M777 howitzers proved to be useless garbage.
Prone to breaking by themselves and having no protection and since Ukraine was not supplied with spare parts even shrapnel can make it inoperable.
Now I understand that video of russian Krasnopol shell "destroying" 2 M777 in one shot. They intentionally hit between them, very cost effective.

Experts say, these howitzers were not designed for artillery duels at all.
Riiight! Just like your claim in the very beginning that Javelins are no problem for Russian tanks! However, if you are right, Russia should be happy to allow the west to resupply Ukraine with more western arms.
Why should Russia be happy about you causing more ukrainians to die?
This is extremely interesting! So, you believe that Russia is upset about the western arms coming into Ukraine because they are defective, and they cause Ukrainians to die? They blow up in the Ukrainian faces? And the Russians are concerned about the well being of the Ukranians? I don't want to straw man you. So, please confirm or deny.
 

Copernicus

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Meanwhile, idiots in Lithuania are trying to declare war to Russia. The war in which NATO will no legal right to help them.
What are you talking about here? The so-called "right of free transit" is allowed for nations that are in peace. Countries that are at war and not trusted don't get the benefit of right of free transit. Another example of the Russian loss of soft power.
Yep, Lithuania is at war with Russia now :)
...

No, it isn't. The EU has imposed sanctions on Russia, and Lithuania is required to enforce those sanctions. Russia is making hysterical noises over it, naturally, but there is no war. Russia does not dare attack Lithuania, because it would then be at war with NATO, an outcome that no sane person could welcome. If Russia wants to move contraband between Kaliningrad and the rest of Russia, then it can use ships in the Baltic for that. Otherwise, don't send contraband overland through Lithuanian territory and expect them to turn a blind eye to it.

See: Russia warns Lithuania over Kaliningrad goods restrictions
 

Copernicus

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...For folks who don't know what Barbos is talking about.

It would be a lot easier to conduct a coherent conversation with him if he would only link his comments to some sources. It was impossible to understand what he was going on about without doing a search for something to do with Russia and Lithuania in the past few hours. That popped up news stories that explained the story and also allowed me to understand his disingenuous claim that Russia and Lithuania were at war. Russia is, of course, always blustering and threatening over some incident, but the story wasn't deemed worthy of headlines in the West. Not immediately, at any rate. Nobody takes these threats from Russia seriously, since they are always crying foul about one thing or another.
 

Harry Bosch

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"The situation is more than serious," Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov told reporters. "This decision is really unprecedented. It's a violation of everything."

Dmitry P - They say they want spokesperson. I thought, yeah, I work on bicycle all the time. I be good spokesperson.
Has there ever been a country so hypocritical? Ever? Russia violates international law by baring the transit of goods from Ukrainian ports to Africa and the Mid east (agriculture products). And then they get in a hussy when Lithuanian prevents some products from shipping. Many products still go though. It's not a total ban. And yet Russia totally bans shipments from Ukraine!
 

SigmatheZeta

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"The situation is more than serious," Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov told reporters. "This decision is really unprecedented. It's a violation of everything."

Dmitry P - They say they want spokesperson. I thought, yeah, I work on bicycle all the time. I be good spokesperson.
Has there ever been a country so hypocritical? Ever? Russia violates international law by baring the transit of goods from Ukrainian ports to Africa and the Mid east (agriculture products). And then they get in a hussy when Lithuanian prevents some products from shipping. Many products still go though. It's not a total ban. And yet Russia totally bans shipments from Ukraine!
Well, Russia is an evil imperialist regime. Do you expect them to behave like a normal country?
 
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