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Should Obama-Hillary Dems also be investigated? prosecuted?

They should be investigated, but they won't be. Trump cannot be sure the investigators will come back with the answers he needs, the stories he's been tweeting.
Like his commission to find voter fraud, he thought as yhe CEO of the govt., he could just direct findings as needed.

But he gets pushback even on measly stuff like using the DOJ to harrass political rivals, based on the accusation that they used the DOJ to harrass political rivals.
 
The statute of limitations has run out on Clapper and has nothing to do with the Trump campaign.

I am unaware of leaks by Comey, unless you mean his letter to congress telling them that the investigation into Clinton was being re-opened. That letter was then leaked to the press by a Republican congressperson.
Right after Trump fired Comey he asked a friend to share one of his memo's to the Washington Post.

What's wrong with that? It was his memo and he was no longer an employee of the government. What has this got to do with the campaign

Is this really all you've got?
 
They should be investigated, but they won't be.

Actually it's more like "since it is so obvious they should be investigated, why haven't they been?"

Trump has been in charge of the Executive Branch - including the Department of Justice - for over 2 years. In that time, his administration hasn't lifted a finger against Clinton or Comey.

If their crimes were so obvious, it should have been a slam-dunk. A political victory for the ages. The right wing has been salivating over seeing Hillary in leg irons, and have been launching investigation after investigation since the 1990s. Successfully prosecuting her would solidify their base even more, and all but guarantee them a win in 2020.

Can't blame it on "the media." Can't blame it on the Democrats. Trump appointed - and the GOP Senate confirmed - the leadership at DOJ. He hand picked the head of the FBI. Only now, after all this time, is Attorney General/"Who's A Good Boy?" Barr getting around to "investigating the investigators." You know, all those Republican investigators who were appointed by Republicans. But somehow it's CNN's fault...
 
They should be investigated, but they won't be.

Actually it's more like "since it is so obvious they should be investigated, why haven't they been?"

Trump has been in charge of the Executive Branch - including the Department of Justice - for over 2 years. In that time, his administration hasn't lifted a finger against Clinton or Comey.

If their crimes were so obvious, it should have been a slam-dunk. A political victory for the ages. The right wing has been salivating over seeing Hillary in leg irons, and have been launching investigation after investigation since the 1990s. Successfully prosecuting her would solidify their base even more, and all but guarantee them a win in 2020.

Can't blame it on "the media." Can't blame it on the Democrats. Trump appointed - and the GOP Senate confirmed - the leadership at DOJ. He hand picked the head of the FBI. Only now, after all this time, is Attorney General/"Who's A Good Boy?" Barr getting around to "investigating the investigators." You know, all those Republican investigators who were appointed by Republicans. But somehow it's CNN's fault...

For the same reason Trump did not get to fire Mueller. There would simply be too much political blowback.

And yes, CNN is very blame worthy for making sure the public stays ignorant and uninformed. This sets the perfect environment for a crook like Hillary to remain free.
 
They should be investigated, but they won't be.

Actually it's more like "since it is so obvious they should be investigated, why haven't they been?"

Trump has been in charge of the Executive Branch - including the Department of Justice - for over 2 years. In that time, his administration hasn't lifted a finger against Clinton or Comey.

If their crimes were so obvious, it should have been a slam-dunk. A political victory for the ages. The right wing has been salivating over seeing Hillary in leg irons, and have been launching investigation after investigation since the 1990s. Successfully prosecuting her would solidify their base even more, and all but guarantee them a win in 2020.

Can't blame it on "the media." Can't blame it on the Democrats. Trump appointed - and the GOP Senate confirmed - the leadership at DOJ. He hand picked the head of the FBI. Only now, after all this time, is Attorney General/"Who's A Good Boy?" Barr getting around to "investigating the investigators." You know, all those Republican investigators who were appointed by Republicans. But somehow it's CNN's fault...

For the same reason Trump did not get to fire Mueller. There would simply be too much political blowback.

And yes, CNN is very blame worthy for making sure the public stays ignorant and uninformed. This sets the perfect environment for a crook like Hillary to remain free.

Ah yes. I remember all the political blow back from the endless investigations of Hillary. It was almost as bad as the fallout from their 50 votes to overturn Obamacare. Where are the Republicans now after those public relations fiascos?

And of course, we're all familiar with the number of demonstrable crimes that were not pursued by law enforcement or courts because of CNN. We all know that Hillary personally ordered the murder of those Americans in Benghazi, but Trey Gowdy and the hapless Republicans in Congress were simply too afraid of CNN to make the charges stick. In a just world, Anderson Cooper would be thrown in prison as an accessory to treason.

Thank god we have unbiased real journalists like Judge Pirro and Sean Hannity protecting our fragile republic from evil-doers, right?
 
For the same reason Trump did not get to fire Mueller. There would simply be too much political blowback.

And yes, CNN is very blame worthy for making sure the public stays ignorant and uninformed. This sets the perfect environment for a crook like Hillary to remain free.

Ah yes. I remember all the political blow back from the endless investigations of Hillary. It was almost as bad as the fallout from their 50 votes to overturn Obamacare. Where are the Republicans now after those public relations fiascos?

And of course, we're all familiar with the number of demonstrable crimes that were not pursued by law enforcement or courts because of CNN. We all know that Hillary personally ordered the murder of those Americans in Benghazi, but Trey Gowdy and the hapless Republicans in Congress were simply too afraid of CNN to make the charges stick. In a just world, Anderson Cooper would be thrown in prison as an accessory to treason.

Thank god we have unbiased real journalists like Judge Pirro and Sean Hannity protecting our fragile republic from evil-doers, right?
I don't think Anderson Cooper or Sean Hannity should be thrown in prison but I do believe they should be both out of business. Neither one is capable of informing the public without bias or spin. Meaning the public has no idea what is really true or not. Without the truth, the public has no way to make informed voting decisions either.

As was mentioned in the OP, the red and blue both have their respective ax to grind simply for their game of politics. In the meantime, without some kind of basis in truth real bad actors become protected from justice.
 
As was mentioned in the OP, the red and blue both have their respective ax to grind simply for their game of politics. In the meantime, without some kind of basis in truth real bad actors become protected from justice.

You appear to be operating from the false assumption that media outlets like CNN or Fox are in the "game of politics" or are interested in "justice."

CNN did actually start out as a legit news organization (and have strayed from that) but Fox was never interested in protecting bad actors from justice.

Fox (and Rush before them) is rooted in the wrong-headed notion that news itself is inherently biased towards "the left." They exist to gain ratings and revenue, and their path towards that goal is to sell themselves as an alternative to a narrative that is largely manufactured in order to serve their purpose. Their selling point is "we're unbiased," but that's based on a falsehood that "news" is not. The real message is not "we're unbiased" but rather "we'll tell you what you want to hear instead of your nightly news broadcast on the major networks."

CNN has adapted to this new model and NBC has spawned a rival in MSNBC, but they're following the lead first created by Rush and then capitalized on by Fox: Tell people you're the source of unbiased truth, and then once you've got them, tell them what they want to hear. It's not about "red and blue teams" but about revenue.


That's separate from the actual workings of justice. Again, if the "crimes" of Hillary Clinton were so apparent, then nothing that CNN or MSNBC or Fox would be able to broadcast would change the law. What's more, this notion that the current administration is corrupt only because "the media" is after them is equally absurd. Is Paul Manafort headed to jail because CNN said he's guilty? No. He's headed to jail because after extensive investigation by the FBI and approval by a grand jury and a federal court, he was found guilty.

As I asked in my first post in this thread, "how's that 'lock her up' thing working out?"


Get back to me when actual charges have been filed.
 
Is Paul Manafort headed to jail because CNN said he's guilty? No. He's headed to jail because after extensive investigation by the FBI and approval by a grand jury and a federal court, he was found guilty.
YES. Paul Manafort IS headed to jail because of CNN and other outlets like CNN. Ditto for Cohen (although he is not really going to jail yet). That is where you are wrong. Those people were actually caught up in a government investigation that only took place because of political pressures mostly created with biased reporting. The whole legal process of their convictions is tainted with the fake Russia investigation which should have never taken place in the first place.

So is it really fair Manafort should go to jail? In a way it is because he really was bad. But in another way it isn't because under normal circumstances he would never have been investigated for in such depth that it took to uncover what took place. And if you think that isn't a good excuse for someone to be getting off from a crime, just ask yourself why guilty people are often set free because the police overstepped legal boundaries. If you dig deep and long enough, the government can find pretty much everyone guilty of something. Well....maybe not mother Treasa but everyone else. And if the government were to dig deep on Hillary it would be easy for her to go jail as well. Just the white washing and the destruction of the hard drives alone are crimes enough for any other person to be in a lot of trouble. But in the end, Hillary probably won't be going to jail because of who she is influenced by our unbiased media. She is untouchable and knows she is untouchable the same way that the mafia bosses are untouchable.
 
Those people were actually caught up in a government investigation that only took place because of political pressures mostly created with biased reporting.

Gibberish.

The whole legal process of their convictions is tainted with the fake Russia investigation which should have never taken place in the first place.

The "fake" investigation that was deemed necessary by our entire intelligence community and conclusively proved real by Mueller?

You have no credentials or credibility.
 
Again, if the "crimes" of Hillary Clinton were so apparent, then nothing that CNN or MSNBC or Fox would be able to broadcast would change the law.
Public opinion has greatly influenced the workings of justice since the very beginnings of law. Public opinion is exactly what got Jesus crucified (the law was going to set him free).
 
Again, if the "crimes" of Hillary Clinton were so apparent, then nothing that CNN or MSNBC or Fox would be able to broadcast would change the law.
Public opinion has greatly influenced the workings of justice since the very beginnings of law.

More gibberish. List the actual crimes she is supposed to have committed, not asinine appeals to public opinions.
 
Is Paul Manafort headed to jail because CNN said he's guilty? No. He's headed to jail because after extensive investigation by the FBI and approval by a grand jury and a federal court, he was found guilty.
YES. Paul Manafort IS headed to jail because of CNN and other outlets like CNN. Ditto for Cohen (although he is not really going to jail yet). That is where you are wrong. Those people were actually caught up in a government investigation that only took place because of political pressures mostly created with biased reporting. The whole legal process of their convictions is tainted with the fake Russia investigation which should have never taken place in the first place.

So is it really fair Manafort should go to jail? In a way it is because he really was bad. But in another way it isn't because under normal circumstances he would never have been investigated for in such depth that it took to uncover what took place. And if you think that isn't a good excuse for someone to be getting off from a crime, just ask yourself why guilty people are often set free because the police overstepped legal boundaries. If you dig deep and long enough, the government can find pretty much everyone guilty of something. Well....maybe not mother Treasa but everyone else. And if the government were to dig deep on Hillary it would be easy for her to go jail as well. Just the white washing and the destruction of the hard drives alone are crimes enough for any other person to be in a lot of trouble. But in the end, Hillary probably won't be going to jail because of who she is influenced by our unbiased media. She is untouchable and knows she is untouchable the same way that the mafia bosses are untouchable.

Wow, so much wrong.

This investigation started because George Papadopoulos got drunk and told Australian diplomats that Russia was working to help Trump.

Carter Page was surveilled because he had contacts with many Russian agents.

Michael Cohen IS in jail.

Hillary did nothing wrong using a private email service. Those before her did the same and those in the WH today are doing it.

Hillary's hard drive was cloned and saved by the FBI before being returned, whereupon it was erased for further use. Not destroyed. Having the physical hard drive or not is meaningless.

No, not everyone is guilty of criminal activity. That's just a stupid rationalization. Name someone who has been investigated more than Clinton and still come out squeaky clean.
 
Is Paul Manafort headed to jail because CNN said he's guilty? No. He's headed to jail because after an extensive investigation by the FBI and approval by a grand jury and a federal court, he was found guilty.
YES. Paul Manafort IS headed to jail because of CNN and other outlets like CNN. Ditto for Cohen (although he is not really going to jail yet). That is where you are wrong. Those people were actually caught up in a government investigation that only took place because of political pressures mostly created with biased reporting. The whole legal process of their convictions is tainted with the fake Russia investigation which should have never taken place in the first place.

So is it really fair Manafort should go to jail? In a way it is because he really was bad. But in another way it isn't because under normal circumstances he would never have been investigated for in such depth that it took to uncover what took place. And if you think that isn't a good excuse for someone to be getting off from a crime, just ask yourself why guilty people are often set free because the police overstepped legal boundaries. If you dig deep and long enough, the government can find pretty much everyone guilty of something. Well....maybe not mother Treasa but everyone else. And if the government were to dig deep on Hillary it would be easy for her to go jail as well. Just the whitewashing and the destruction of the hard drives alone are crimes enough for any other person to be in a lot of trouble. But in the end, Hillary probably won't be going to jail because of who she is influenced by our unbiased media. She is untouchable and knows she is untouchable the same way that the mafia bosses are untouchable.

You live in a bleak, confusing world where everyone has political biases that are reflected in their work. This includes the FBI, the entire justice department, the entire set of US attorneys, the court system especially the judges. and all of the media. No wonder you haven't been able to form any coherent set of opinions out of all of this.

I assume then that you are a Trump supporter because most Trump supporters just wanted to shake things up in Washington out of their frustration and confusion. To toss a hand grenade into the works of the hopeless, dysfunctional government How is that working out for you so far?

I can help.

First, consider just the FBI. According to you, the FBI investigates either what they want to investigate in order to satisfy their own political biases or they investigate what the administration in office at the time wants them to investigate in order to satisfy that administration's political aims. I am unclear as to which you are proposing because you seem to be suggesting both in different points in your argument.

But finally, it doesn't matter. Either way, your logic is faced with a contradiction and it is pretty much the same contradiction no matter whose policial aims you think are being met by the investigation, those of the FBI themselves or the administration in power at the time. The contradiction is that both sides were investigated and both sides were found to have had reasonable grounds for starting the investigation, but pretty much in both cases, the overarching political hoped-for result wasn't realized.

Consider the case if the FBI was the dancing monkey of the administration in power. This would mean that the Obama administration would have ordered the FBI to investigate Clinton for her use of a private email server and that the FBI would have stopped the investigation into the Trump's campaign's possible collusion with Russia when ordered by the Trump administration. Obviously, neither happened and neither makes sense.

The proposition that the FBI followed its own political biases to start the two investigations also fails for the same reason. The FBI would have to have made a sea change in political bias between investigating Clinton's emails and Trump's possible collusion with Russia.

Even less likely is the possibility that it was a battle of the pro-red FBI against the pro-blue FBI since Comey would have to be in both at the same time and that none of this battle inside the FBI came to be known at the time or since.

It is hard to believe that the Russia investigation was a political act by the blue team because they would have released the information before the election when it would have hurt Trump rather than after the election.

The only conclusion that doesn't raise these problems with logic is that both warranted the investigation that occurred and that in neither case was prosecution recommended for the crimes committed. Yes, Clinton was reckless in her use of private email server as were many others who used private email servers in both Republican and Democratic administrations but they didn't rise to be crimes. Yes, the Russians did interfere with the 2016 election to elect Trump, Trump's campaign met many times with Russians that they tried to cover up, and yes, Trump tried to obstruct justice but didn't succeed, however, they can't indict a sitting president, he must be impeached first.

In other words that the FBI is the neutral source of information and investigation that you say that you want.

I can help with others too, the media, the courts, etc.
 
As to the question mentioned in the thread title. Yes Hillary and the previous administration should be investigated too.

If what they are accused of is true, it is actually worse than what the Trump team was investigated for.

What are they accused of?

If you believe what comes from the Hannity/Limbaugh crowd its very bad. Political actors from both the FBI and CIA under direction of the Obama regime attempted to subvert a legitimate election of POTUS. So instead of Russia interference it was interference from within. Besides the fact that that kind of interference is more believable than Russia it is also a much worse problem to fix rot in our government that is from within.

I think it was underscored by how Bernie Sanders was treated in the prior election and how Hillary was considered to be headed for a "coronation" and how the DNC was in a large part funded by Hillary. It stank of corruption, and that became fuel for Trump's fire against Hillary with the "crooked Hillary" stuff too.
 
Look, there is much progress to be made. Opponents of Dear Leader need to be put to death. Let's not waste time investigating, let's just round them up and solve the fucking problem!
The Whitehouse Spokesperson (Picasso Barbie) has already announced the results of the investigations - it is only treasonous Democrats holding up the executions.
 
Again, if the "crimes" of Hillary Clinton were so apparent, then nothing that CNN or MSNBC or Fox would be able to broadcast would change the law.
Public opinion has greatly influenced the workings of justice since the very beginnings of law.

More gibberish. List the actual crimes she is supposed to have committed, not asinine appeals to public opinions.
All over the internet everywhere if you care to do a google search. But no need to even bother with that when you can just watch this rather short first video I just searched on youtube here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADC0naicOMs

I've never even heard of this guy, I guess he is trying to sell his book. But the mantra he repeats is pretty much exactly what you will here everyday on conservative outlets every day.

Is any or all of this stuff true? I have no idea. But there are a hell of of lot people who must think so.
 
Opponents of Dear Leader need to be put to death. Let's not waste time investigating,
If the president really did something bad, then go ahead and impeach him. All we saw this time around was a fake dossier that was used to drum up a fake investigation to waste everyone's time. I did not agree with the impeachment of Clinton over his blow job either. But at least in that circumstance Clinton actually broke the law (lied to congress). This time they just wasted time and money to accomplish absolutely nothing.

I do not believe this stuff would happen in the first place if the press told the truth and people could have confidence in knowing what they heard was true. I still believe that is the crux of the problem.
 
Your basic premise right from the start is wrong so I'll not bother responding to your always too wordy blather.

Bonespurs campaign was not "spied" on "illegally". A member of his campaign had many contacts with Russian agents, some of whom had already been convicted of espionage activities. This person was monitored with the approval of the courts.

This. Associates of spies are automatically suspect. These investigations are often clandestine as identifying a spy without arresting him is often the better course of action. A known spy is of more use (as a conduit for disinformation) to the defenders than to his handlers (who get pretty much nothing as the known spy is kept away from the real secrets.) Also, sometimes you can make a known spy turn double agent--actively passing false information rather than being deceived into passing false information.

If you openly go after a spy you destroy any value (other than for exchanges) they may have had to you.
 
Opponents of Dear Leader need to be put to death. Let's not waste time investigating,
If the president really did something bad, then go ahead and impeach him. All we saw this time around was a fake dossier that was used to drum up a fake investigation to waste everyone's time. I did not agree with the impeachment of Clinton over his blow job either. But at least in that circumstance Clinton actually broke the law (lied to congress). This time they just wasted time and money to accomplish absolutely nothing.

A fake investigation? For a fake investigation it sure managed to score a lot of real hits. And they actually made money on the investigation. And it's clear that the only reason His Flatulence wasn't indicted was Mueller was told he couldn't indict a sitting president.

I do not believe this stuff would happen in the first place if the press told the truth and people could have confidence in knowing what they heard was true. I still believe that is the crux of the problem.

Yeah, it wouldn't have. If Faux Noise told the truth His Flatulence would never have been elected and we wouldn't be in this mess.
 
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