Should the focus be more on oligarch/mafia ties than just plain Russian government?

[repoman]

What if some mega rich US citizen had gotten solid opposition research on Clinton, Trump's people would also have taken the meeting and make similar agreements.

Selling government favors to Russian rich corrupt fucks is worse than doing the same for US rich corrupt fucks, but how much worse really?

If it was a lawyer for Sheldon Adelstein or the Koch Brothers instead, would that also be "collusion"?

Is the lesson here to have Made in America Pride for corruption and you will be safer?

Also, these big well connected media companies are making it only about the Russian government, when it is about rich people having too much sway. But they are owned by rich people and pay there anchors very well. No coverage of Net Neutrality at all. That will do more damage to the US than the Russian real estate criminal that Trump's prosecutor gifted fine reduction for.

The fact that there is so much consolidation in the media is from the total bullshit 1996 Telecom act in the first place and when Howard Dean talked negatively about it they made hay about the "Dean Scream".

A pox on Trump, a pox on Clinton, a pox on CNN, a pox on MSNBC and a pox on FOX.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Oh the actual investigation includes the oligarch and money laundering ties.

 

[Elixir]

A pox on Trump, a pox on Clinton, a pox on CNN, a pox on MSNBC and a pox on FOX.

I guess that leaves ... Breitbart. No pox on them?
FWIW, I've seen several mentions of Russian mob/Cheato connections and even a little bit on net neutrality. Not on CNN or FOX (of course), but MSNBC has given it at least a nod.
I disagree that net neutrality is a matter of more immediate concern than the assault on our system of government being conducted by the current administration and it's congressional backers. It may become so, but it won't matter a bit if we don't clean house first.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Oh the actual investigation includes the oligarch and money laundering ties.

repoman exists in their own little world and apparently was unaware of it, despite even participating in threads here which discuss that very thing.

 

[funinspace]

What if some mega rich US citizen had gotten solid opposition research on Clinton, Trump's people would also have taken the meeting and make similar agreements.

Selling government favors to Russian rich corrupt fucks is worse than doing the same for US rich corrupt fucks, but how much worse really?

Conspiring with foreign agents to affect an election is a crime. The other, even though unfortunate, is quite legal. The courts have further enabled money and the moneyed, to spend as they wish on elections. Americans, even if they thinks this situation is wrong, continue to elect Repugs that support this arrangement. Then they did something even dumber and elected Don the Con. Dumping Don the Con for pretty much any reason would be a good thing...but still better for committing an actual crime.

The 2 things you compare would be similar to comparing a person financially defrauding another person, to a person marrying someone while cheating on them the whole time. Both are unethical, but only one is a crime.

 

[Horatio Parker]

Who do you think Putin will select to be our next Prez?

 

[funinspace]

Who do you think Putin will select to be our next Prez?

After 7.5 more wonderful years: Kid Rock, 2024

 

[Horatio Parker]

Who do you think Putin will select to be our next Prez?

After 7.5 more wonderful years: Kid Rock, 2024

I dunno. I think Putin is more of a Vanilla Ice kinda guy.

 

[J842P]

What if some mega rich US citizen had gotten solid opposition research on Clinton, Trump's people would also have taken the meeting and make similar agreements.

Selling government favors to Russian rich corrupt fucks is worse than doing the same for US rich corrupt fucks, but how much worse really?

Conspiring with foreign agents to affect an election is a crime. The other, even though unfortunate, is quite legal. The courts have further enabled money and the moneyed, to spend as they wish on elections. Americans, even if they thinks this situation is wrong, continue to elect Repugs that support this arrangement. Then they did something even dumber and elected Don the Con. Dumping Don the Con for pretty much any reason would be a good thing...but still better for committing an actual crime.

The 2 things you compare would be similar to comparing a person financially defrauding another person, to a person marrying someone while cheating on them the whole time. Both are unethical, but only one is a crime.

Yeah. To be fair, though, it's a blurry line between the Russian government and the oligarchs. That's why they are called oligarchs.

 

[SimpleDon]

What if some mega rich US citizen had gotten solid opposition research on Clinton, Trump's people would also have taken the meeting and make similar agreements.

Selling government favors to Russian rich corrupt fucks is worse than doing the same for US rich corrupt fucks, but how much worse really?

it depends on how much worse you feel that conspiring with our country's biggest enemy, i.e. treason, is than breaking campaign finance laws. It is obvious from your question that you don't think that it is that much different. I disagree.

If it was a lawyer for Sheldon Adelstein or the Koch Brothers instead, would that also be "collusion"?

That would be conspiring, without scare quotes, to break campaign finance laws. Once again, it depends on how serious you believe that this is than treason.

Is the lesson here to have Made in America Pride for corruption and you will be safer?

I believe that treason to corrupt our democracy is much more dangerous than violating campaign finance laws to corrupt our democracy.

But I might be hypersensitive about treason, especially with the Russians. I flew over the then North Vietnam with people shooting at me and my fellow Naval aviators when Walker was passing the daily decryption keys to the Russians so that the Russians could enable the North Vietnamese to listen to our radio calls.

Also, these big well connected media companies are making it only about the Russian government, when it is about rich people having too much sway. But they are owned by rich people and pay there anchors very well. No coverage of Net Neutrality at all. That will do more damage to the US than the Russian real estate criminal that Trump's prosecutor gifted fine reduction for.

But the problem is that the Trumps are now conspiring with the nation's enemies to undermine our democracy so that the rich in America can claim an ever increasing amount of the incomes of the nation. This is much worse than the generation long conspiracy between the rich in America and the Republican party to undermine democracy in the US so that the rich in America can claim an ever increasing amount of the incomes of the nation.

The fact that there is so much consolidation in the media is from the total bullshit 1996 Telecom act in the first place and when Howard Dean talked negatively about it they made hay about the "Dean Scream".

A pox on Trump, a pox on Clinton, a pox on CNN, a pox on MSNBC and a pox on FOX.

Agreed. Plus the huge number of middle class investigative reporters in newspapers all over the country who have largely been replaced by a few television news readers chosen mainly for their good looks who will dutifully read anything put on a teleprompter to earn an obscene salary.

 

[barbos]

What if some mega rich US citizen had gotten solid opposition research on Clinton, Trump's people would also have taken the meeting and make similar agreements.

Selling government favors to Russian rich corrupt fucks is worse than doing the same for US rich corrupt fucks, but how much worse really?

If it was a lawyer for Sheldon Adelstein or the Koch Brothers instead, would that also be "collusion"?

Is the lesson here to have Made in America Pride for corruption and you will be safer?

Also, these big well connected media companies are making it only about the Russian government, when it is about rich people having too much sway. But they are owned by rich people and pay there anchors very well. No coverage of Net Neutrality at all. That will do more damage to the US than the Russian real estate criminal that Trump's prosecutor gifted fine reduction for.

The fact that there is so much consolidation in the media is from the total bullshit 1996 Telecom act in the first place and when Howard Dean talked negatively about it they made hay about the "Dean Scream".

A pox on Trump, a pox on Clinton, a pox on CNN, a pox on MSNBC and a pox on FOX.

Yeah, this outrage about russians doing (allegedly) all these bad things is surprising. I wish americans had the same outrage when US critters were caught doing exactly the same thing russians are accused of.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Yeah, this outrage about russians doing (allegedly) all these bad things is surprising. I wish americans had the same outrage when US critters were caught doing exactly the same thing russians are accused of.

Well, every government does it. The issue here is that when you knowingly cooperate with those governments while they're doing it, you're committing an act of treason against your own country.

It is the job of intelligence networks to find traitors in foreign countries who are willing to sell out their own people. It is the job of justice systems to put those traitors in jail.

 

[barbos]

Yeah, this outrage about russians doing (allegedly) all these bad things is surprising. I wish americans had the same outrage when US critters were caught doing exactly the same thing russians are accused of.

Well, every government does it. The issue here is that when you knowingly cooperate with those governments while they're doing it, you're committing an act of treason against your own country.

It is the job of intelligence networks to find traitors in foreign countries who are willing to sell out their own people. It is the job of justice systems to put those traitors in jail.

So, it's OK when your own people try to meddle in other countries elections but worthy of going apeshit if it's done to you?
Why can't you have some perspective?

 

[Opoponax]

Well, every government does it. The issue here is that when you knowingly cooperate with those governments while they're doing it, you're committing an act of treason against your own country.

It is the job of intelligence networks to find traitors in foreign countries who are willing to sell out their own people. It is the job of justice systems to put those traitors in jail.

So, it's OK when your own people try to meddle in other countries elections but worthy of going apeshit if it's done to you?
Why can't you have some perspective?

No one said it was right or legal. The Trumptard Deflection Team is saying, "We do it too!" in order to minimize Trump's crimes. The thing is, our government still has a responsibility to enforce the laws that were created to protect the integrity of the democracy. The implication of the "We do it too!" crowd is that we have no right to enforce our laws or protect our democracy because blahblahblah. It's a shit argument with little in the way of thoughtful analysis. The fact that one may have to think about it for more than an eyeblink means that Trumptardians will swallow it hook, line, and sinker. Throw in a couple more things that make it even more vomitious:

1. These are the same people who want to build a massive wall on our southern border to keep Mexicans out, yet they're perfectly fine with letting Russian hackers in.
2. These are the same people who yell the loudest and most aggressively about the Constitution, "law and order" (remember that chant?), and American exceptionalism. Yet, here they are, advocating for our Constitution to be ignored, our laws to go unenforced, and suddenly have found a retarded Noam Chomsky-esque system of beliefs about what America does abroad.

It's hypocrite stew for dumbfucks whose minds work like a goddamn bingo machine that randomly pops up little plastic balls. There's no coherency, predictability, or foundation other than an artificially made gust of wind that throws up cheap plastic spheres. It is the pure essence of the Trump lover.

 

[blastula]

Try to focus, barbos, the main issue for Americans is what the Americans did here.

 

[Elixir]

Yeah, this outrage about russians doing (allegedly) all these bad things is surprising.

So, Russians doing bad things to us is not a concern, but the outrage over it is. We are supposed (by barbos) to be perfectly content to be fucked with by Russians, and not raise any fuss over it.

Get real, troll.

 

[repoman]

Yeah, this outrage about russians doing (allegedly) all these bad things is surprising.

So, Russians doing bad things to us is not a concern, but the outrage over it is. We are supposed (by barbos) to be perfectly content to be fucked with by Russians, and not raise any fuss over it.

Get real, troll.

I don't want neocon assholes that have been around since the 1980s to use this to push more of the same crappy foreign policy and a second cold war. Get Trump out, get some deeper reforms so that even if it was an American based hacking collusion scheme this would be punished and then go from there.

Think of Putin as taking a page from Kermit Roosevelt.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Yeah, this outrage about russians doing (allegedly) all these bad things is surprising. I wish americans had the same outrage when US critters were caught doing exactly the same thing russians are accused of.

Um... If you look closely, the outrage IS aimed at the Americans doing these exact things.
No one's asking to impeach any Russian.
No one's wandering around saying 'Damn, we thought Gorbachev was the dumb one!'
And no one's excusing Putin by saying that Khrushchev would have been 'just as bad.'

Seriously, read the room, dude.

 

[barbos]

Yeah, this outrage about russians doing (allegedly) all these bad things is surprising.

So, Russians doing bad things to us is not a concern, but the outrage over it is. We are supposed (by barbos) to be perfectly content to be fucked with by Russians, and not raise any fuss over it.

Yes, if you fuck you should be content with being fucked.

 

[Horatio Parker]

So, it's OK when your own people try to meddle in other countries elections but worthy of going apeshit if it's done to you?
Why can't you have some perspective?

He doesn't lack perspective; you do.

He's talking about putting Americans in jail. Russians can go fuck themselves; they're irrelevant, they do what all intelligence services do.

The point is what the Trump people did, not what the Russians did.