Should the House begin impeachment hearings?

[Copernicus]

There are renewed calls for impeachment hearings. The purpose of this thread is to discuss just that issue. Vote your preference on the basis of what you think Congress ought to do and explain why in the body of the thread.

 

[barbos]

It would be futile but they should do it, that's their job.

 

[Copernicus]

I agree, barbos, but feel free to register your vote, too. The poll is for members of the TFT community, not specifically American citizens.

 

[Rhea]

It would be futile but they should do it, that's their job.

Yes, I agree with this.

The information that has come out has absolutely risen to the level of ivestigation. To fail to do so would be a violation of our principles. Some have said, “don’t because Pence is worse,” but if he is worse ideologically but still law-abiding, that would not be worse.

 

[Toni]

It would be futile but they should do it, that's their job.

Yes, I agree with this.

The information that has come out has absolutely risen to the level of ivestigation. To fail to do so would be a violation of our principles. Some have said, “don’t because Pence is worse,” but if he is worse ideologically but still law-abiding, that would not be worse.

I also agree but I am torn.

To the extent of the information that I know or believe I know, I believe that Trump should be impeached and convicted. I realize there are limitations to what I know or believe that I know.

I am concerned about what it means to us, as a nation, if we fail to impeach someone who has clearly done his best to commit treason, albeit without any particular desire to actually betray the US so much as a lack of concern about anything other than his own personal interests. It seems clear that he has directed subordinates many times to commit illegal acts and that only their sense of right and wrong and duty prevented many crimes from being committed.

I am also concerned about what it means, as a nation, if we failed to convict Trump for the crimes it appears he committed or tried to commit.

I am also concerned about the amount of damage that Pence could do if he were to be installed as president.

I have never been so sick to my stomach as I have been every day realizing who is the sitting POTUS and who is next in line.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

No. The information is not yet enough to convince even a small number of Republicans. An impeachment proceeding needs to be both rational and political. Rational people can look at evidence to determine Trump is undeserving of office, but more evidence and more time will convince more people and get to more incriminating evidence.

There is more info to obtain. Therefore, I think two things should be done instead:
1. A post-Mueller Congressional investigation into the Russian interference;
2. This investigation must continue at a minimum until after Roger Stone, Julian Assange, and Russians are convicted as some of them may sing like birds thru plea deals. For example, look how much a Cohen plea deal affected what we know.

In fact, I think the Mueller report itself was premature since some conclusions could have been impacted by these things.

 

[ZiprHead]

It would be futile but they should do it, that's their job.

Yes, I agree with this.

The information that has come out has absolutely risen to the level of ivestigation. To fail to do so would be a violation of our principles. Some have said, “don’t because Pence is worse,” but if he is worse ideologically but still law-abiding, that would not be worse.

I'm not so sure it would be futile.

I know the dems are somewhat apprehensive of impeachment. When the reps impeached Clinton, it only made him stronger. I don't see that happening in this case.

With Clinton, they impeached him over a land deal that he had lost money on ten years prior. Then they tried to drag Hillary in it and could find no wrongdoing on her part also. They finally had to settle on lying about a personal extra-marital affair, something almost half the nations adults have participated in at one or more times in their lives. All this while the guy pushing this, Newt Gingrich, is found out to be getting blow jobs from his mistress in the senate garage. It made the Clintons quite sympathetic figures.

I don't think that will happen with Trump. This would put his extremely shady past front and center for all to see and Fox News would be hard pressed to cover it up as they've been doing so in the past. All his mob ties, his dirty real estate deals, bribery, corruption. All the things that have been his stock in trade his entire life will be exposed on National TV. He will certainly not become a sympathetic figure. And they will still have the presidency of Pence, lame duck though he will surely be.

Republicans will have to decide what is more important to them. The Trump presidency or retaining some sort of political power after 2020. If they choose Trump, they are choosing the trash bin of history for themselves.

 

[laughing dog]

An impeachment by the House of Mr. Trump will simply rally his base and allow him to play the victim at the socialist, abortionists Democrats. IMO, better to air all of his sleaziness and replay it, and let the Republicans either do the right thing or go down in flames.

 

[steve_bank]

I voted no. There will not be enough votes and it will help Trump in the election. Fits right into his persecution narrative.

 

[Harry Bosch]

An impeachment by the House of Mr. Trump will simply rally his base and allow him to play the victim at the socialist, abortionists Democrats. IMO, better to air all of his sleaziness and replay it, and let the Republicans either do the right thing or go down in flames.

Totally agree. You'd think that after all this time that we'd realize that giving Trump more and more oxygen just increases his celebrity and status. If Dems want to win in 2020, they need to focus on beating the republicans on the issues (the environment, social issues, health care, and etc.) I agree, attack Trump on his sleaziness, dangerous lack of knowledge, caging children and separating them from their parents, and etc. The impeachment will just distract from the issues and give more oxygen to Trump.

 

[steve_bank]

If MSNBC and CNN had played it all more low key Trump would have less power.

 

[Harry Bosch]

If MSNBC and CNN had played it all more low key Trump would have less power.

Anything Trump related, obviously including a possible impeachment, is big big ratings bonanza for the news networks.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Yes, they should. If the actions outlined in the Mueller Report aren’t impeachable, then what the hell is?

 

[RavenSky]

No. The information is not yet enough to convince even a small number of Republicans. An impeachment proceeding needs to be both rational and political. Rational people can look at evidence to determine Trump is undeserving of office, but more evidence and more time will convince more people and get to more incriminating evidence.

There is more info to obtain. Therefore, I think two things should be done instead:
1. A post-Mueller Congressional investigation into the Russian interference;
2. This investigation must continue at a minimum until after Roger Stone, Julian Assange, and Russians are convicted as some of them may sing like birds thru plea deals. For example, look how much a Cohen plea deal affected what we know.

In fact, I think the Mueller report itself was premature since some conclusions could have been impacted by these things.

I mostly agree with Don on this.

Congressional hearings regarding Russian interference. Force the Trumplettes to testify (which puts pressure on Trump directly), and demonstrate over and over and over how corrupt Trump is until any Republican in the Senate and the House risks losing their seat if they DON'T call for impeachment.

It wasn't the impeachment process itself that forced Nixon's resignation. It was the 7 months of Watergate hearings that preceded the threat of impeachment.

And even if Pence pardons Trump at a federal level, unlike Nixon, Trump has broken enough laws at state levels where Pence can't pardon him.

As to Mueller's report being premature... I agree but I don't think he had any choice on the timing.

 

[Patooka]

If MSNBC and CNN had played it all more low key Trump would have less power.

Umm...bullshit. Trump's power comes from Republicans supporting him with their "my party, right or wrong" mentality. Informing people of the level of hypocrisy involved compromises Republicans who support Trump, limiting his power.

 

[Copernicus]

Yes, they should. If the actions outlined in the Mueller Report aren’t impeachable, then what the hell is?

This is exactly my position, too. I understand that the Republican-controlled Senate will likely never remove Trump. Republican Senators would be committing political suicide to do so. It is also going to be difficult to muster enough votes in the House to send impeachment articles to the Senate. Nevertheless, impeachment is the only remedy afforded by the Constitution to stop a tyrannical president who abuses his powers. That is exactly why there is an impeachment option in the Constitution in the first place. Never has there been a president who deserved impeachment more than Donald Trump.

What is the consequence of not impeaching Trump? It is the precedent that it sets for future presidents. They will be able to ride roughshod over the law, because they will have a textbook example of how to do it. Even if impeachment fails, we need the precedent to be that it is still a viable option in the future. And it won't be, if future lawmakers use this precedent to say that impeachment hearings are pointless and bound to hurt those who challenge a sitting president. What will stop future presidents from taking bribes, blocking investigations, shifting money around to pay for projects not authorized, and going after anyone who stands in their way? Trump is a phony and an incompetent, but he is actually getting away with pretty much anything he wants. An impeachment hearing, even if it fails ultimately, still needs to remain as a credible threat to misconduct in office.

 

[Terrell]

No. Use the information against him in the 2020 election. I highly doubt that there will be the votes to remove Trump from office.

 

[ZiprHead]

No. Use the information against him in the 2020 election. I highly doubt that there will be the votes to remove Trump from office.

Why can't they do both?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

No. The information is not yet enough to convince even a small number of Republicans. An impeachment proceeding needs to be both rational and political. Rational people can look at evidence to determine Trump is undeserving of office, but more evidence and more time will convince more people and get to more incriminating evidence.

There is more info to obtain. Therefore, I think two things should be done instead:
1. A post-Mueller Congressional investigation into the Russian interference;
2. This investigation must continue at a minimum until after Roger Stone, Julian Assange, and Russians are convicted as some of them may sing like birds thru plea deals. For example, look how much a Cohen plea deal affected what we know.

In fact, I think the Mueller report itself was premature since some conclusions could have been impacted by these things.

I mostly agree with Don on this.

Congressional hearings regarding Russian interference. Force the Trumplettes to testify (which puts pressure on Trump directly), and demonstrate over and over and over how corrupt Trump is until any Republican in the Senate and the House risks losing their seat if they DON'T call for impeachment.

It wasn't the impeachment process itself that forced Nixon's resignation. It was the 7 months of Watergate hearings that preceded the threat of impeachment.

And even if Pence pardons Trump at a federal level, unlike Nixon, Trump has broken enough laws at state levels where Pence can't pardon him.

As to Mueller's report being premature... I agree but I don't think he had any choice on the timing.

Completely agree.

 

[Keith&Co.]

No. Use the information against him in the 2020 election. I highly doubt that there will be the votes to remove Trump from office.

Why can't they do both?

Well, yeah, in a rational world, we could holdTrump's trangressions against him, twice, AND also hold the GOP responsible for actions they take to cover for him. But, weirdly, him escaping the consequences of his actions makes him look better to the party of law, order, personal responsibility, and moral superiority...
I mean, the entire public platform of the Party seems to have been a staged jokefor a foyr-year Opposite Day.