Sin is a figment of peoples imagination

[no-one-particular]

Sin is a figment of peoples imagination. Yet some people believe that it is real.

If these people honestly believe that what they are saying is true then don't you have to respect that?

What do you say to these delusional people?

 

[James Brown]

Sin lies only in hurting others unnecessarily. All other "sins" are invented nonsense.

From the Notebooks of Lazarus Long.

 

[fast]

Sin is a figment of peoples imagination. Yet some people believe that it is real.

If these people honestly believe that what they are saying is true then don't you have to respect that?

What do you say to these delusional people?

I think there’s a disconnect with the notion there is no sin if there is no God.

Many believers consider shacking up with someone prior to marriage as living in sin. You could make the argument that it’s not sinful, but the basis of that argument matters. If you attempt to show it’s not sinful because it’s not harmful, that’s one thing, but trying to show it’s not sinful because there is no God, it’s still the case that certain acts are sinful by virtue of certain acts said to be wrong in religious texts that are in fact wrong irregardless of whether there is a God.

 

[Treedbear]

Sin is a figment of peoples imagination. Yet some people believe that it is real.

If these people honestly believe that what they are saying is true then don't you have to respect that?

What do you say to these delusional people?

I think there’s a disconnect with the notion there is no sin if there is no God.

Many believers consider shacking up with someone prior to marriage as living in sin. You could make the argument that it’s not sinful, but the basis of that argument matters. If you attempt to show it’s not sinful because it’s not harmful, that’s one thing, but trying to show it’s not sinful because there is no God, it’s still the case that certain acts are sinful by virtue of certain acts said to be wrong in religious texts that are in fact wrong irregardless of whether there is a God.

Then why call those acts sins when immoral is a perfectly good word that doesn't imply there is no reason beyond it's only wrong due to God saying so? Claiming God is a way of ending further reasoning.

 

[no-one-particular]

Then why call those acts sins when immoral is a perfectly good word that doesn't imply there is no reason beyond it's only wrong due to God saying so? Claiming God is a way of ending further reasoning.

There is no "sin". There is no "immoral". There is no "moral".

There is only civilized and uncivilized behavior.

 

[no-one-particular]

Sin is a figment of peoples imagination. Yet some people believe that it is real.

If these people honestly believe that what they are saying is true then don't you have to respect that?

What do you say to these delusional people?

My opinion is:

Calling someone a sinner is just a roundabout way of saying that that person is inferior. Inferior to the people that arent sinners.

In a civilized society there are no inferior people.
In a civilized society there are no superior people.

The concept of "sin" is therefore not civilized and I as a civilized person do not feel under any obligation to respect the delusion that sin is a real thing.

 

[Bronzeage]

Sin is a figment of peoples imagination. Yet some people believe that it is real.

If these people honestly believe that what they are saying is true then don't you have to respect that?

What do you say to these delusional people?

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

Why would sin be something imaginary? If I steal your bike, is it gone, or can you pretend it's still there and it makes no difference?

 

[fast]

Sin is a figment of peoples imagination. Yet some people believe that it is real.

If these people honestly believe that what they are saying is true then don't you have to respect that?

What do you say to these delusional people?

I think there’s a disconnect with the notion there is no sin if there is no God.

Many believers consider shacking up with someone prior to marriage as living in sin. You could make the argument that it’s not sinful, but the basis of that argument matters. If you attempt to show it’s not sinful because it’s not harmful, that’s one thing, but trying to show it’s not sinful because there is no God, it’s still the case that certain acts are sinful by virtue of certain acts said to be wrong in religious texts that are in fact wrong irregardless of whether there is a God.

Then why call those acts sins when immoral is a perfectly good word that doesn't imply there is no reason beyond it's only wrong due to God saying so? Claiming God is a way of ending further reasoning.

If there is a God, and if God recognizes an act as wrong, and if God is not mistaken, then if God says an act is wrong, then it’s wrong, but don’t confuse the informative conveyance of what is said to be wrong with the basis for why it’s wrong.

An act is not wrong because God says it’s wrong, even if it’s true that an act is wrong when God says it’s wrong.

Saying that an act is wrong is informative, but saying that the Bible conveys to us that certain acts are wrong is not untrue—even if there is no God and the Bible is fallible.

Any act considered wrong by the Bible that is in fact wrong is a sin. There’s still a question (however) about whether an act (presuming possibility of biblical error) that an act that isn’t wrong is a sin when it’s still considered wrong by the Bible. It depends, but it depends on what a sin is, not whether the basis for something in the Bible is considered sin.

 

[abaddon]

Sin is a figment of peoples imagination. Yet some people believe that it is real.

If these people honestly believe that what they are saying is true then don't you have to respect that?

What do you say to these delusional people?

I guess start arguing about the existence of God since the word has no use outside that context.

"Sin" is a theist word for "defiance of God". https://www.gotquestions.org/definition-sin.html

 

[no-one-particular]

Sin is a figment of peoples imagination. Yet some people believe that it is real.

If these people honestly believe that what they are saying is true then don't you have to respect that?

What do you say to these delusional people?

I guess start arguing about the existence of God since the word has no use outside that context.

"Sin" is a theist word for "defiance of God". https://www.gotquestions.org/definition-sin.html

So you don't feel obligated to respect their delusion?

 

[Keith&Co.]

Sin is a figment of peoples imagination. Yet some people believe that it is real.

Well, money is a figment of peoples' imagination, too. We just tend to find it a useful fiction so enough of us agree to it.
'Sin' being a crime against god, it's only useful among those who agree that there is a god.

If these people honestly believe that what they are saying is true then don't you have to respect that?

I hear people saying, some people are saying, I mean, lots of people are saying this thing. I don't know if I believe it, I don't know if I have to believe it.
But you know, people have said it, and people have insisted on saying it, insisted that it's true, it's whatever. It's their truth. That doesn't make it the big truth. People can say, people are saying that Trump is chosen by God to run this nation, people can say all kinds of shit, you know? Absolute shit, and I don't feel any great need to respect this shit just because they said it, or are saying it, and if they truly feel that what they believe is what they say, that really doesn't make it any less shit, you know?
They can believe shit and they can say shit and we have free speech so I kinda, I dunno, I gotta respect their right to say shit, but I dunno why, you know, what it would be that makes me respect the shit they're saying, just because they went to the effort to say it.

What do you say to these delusional people?

Depends on what they say and how they expect me to react. 'Shut up' can work, or 'fuck off.'

 

[abaddon]

Sin is a figment of peoples imagination. Yet some people believe that it is real.

If these people honestly believe that what they are saying is true then don't you have to respect that?

What do you say to these delusional people?

I guess start arguing about the existence of God since the word has no use outside that context.

"Sin" is a theist word for "defiance of God". https://www.gotquestions.org/definition-sin.html

So you don't feel obligated to respect their delusion?

No I don't respect delusions. If you're bringing up "respect" as a matter of "do you argue with them?" then that depends on my mood and the social context.

 

[no-one-particular]

Well, money is a figment of peoples' imagination, too. We just tend to find it a useful fiction so enough of us agree to it.
'Sin' being a crime against god, it's only useful among those who agree that there is a god.
I hear people saying, some people are saying, I mean, lots of people are saying this thing. I don't know if I believe it, I don't know if I have to believe it.
But you know, people have said it, and people have insisted on saying it, insisted that it's true, it's whatever. It's their truth. That doesn't make it the big truth. People can say, people are saying that Trump is chosen by God to run this nation, people can say all kinds of shit, you know? Absolute shit, and I don't feel any great need to respect this shit just because they said it, or are saying it, and if they truly feel that what they believe is what they say, that really doesn't make it any less shit, you know?
They can believe shit and they can say shit and we have free speech so I kinda, I dunno, I gotta respect their right to say shit, but I dunno why, you know, what it would be that makes me respect the shit they're saying, just because they went to the effort to say it.

What do you say to these delusional people?

Depends on what they say and how they expect me to react. 'Shut up' can work, or 'fuck off.'

I am not sure I understand everything you just said but you seem to be implying that everything that is nonmaterial is imaginary. I dont think I agree with that. Love is a real thing. A square circle is imaginary. A circle is a real thing even though it is just an idea.

 

[Keith&Co.]

There is no "sin". There is no "immoral". There is no "moral".

There is only civilized and uncivilized behavior.

So, how is (I'm)moral a delusion while (in)civilized is a fact?

Both are inventions of man that seek to codify behavior to maximize the acceptable population density. If we didn't have morals, no one could ever learn to play the bagpipes because the neighbors would harvest his organs for long-haggis.
Practicing your bagpipe in a crowded space would be uncivilized behavior...

 

[Keith&Co.]

You seem to be implying that everything that is nonmaterial is imaginary.

What would you use as a distinction between 'real nonmaterial' things and 'imaginary nonmaterial' things?

A square circle is imaginary. A circle is a real thing even though it is just an idea.

And as long as it remains 'just an idea,' it's imaginary.
We can list the rules that create and/or govern it, such as to make the imaginary circle different from an imaginary square, but it's still pretty imaginary.

 

[no-one-particular]

There is no "sin". There is no "immoral". There is no "moral".

There is only civilized and uncivilized behavior.

So, how is (I'm)moral a delusion while (in)civilized is a fact?

Both are inventions of man that seek to codify behavior to maximize the acceptable population density. If we didn't have morals, no one could ever learn to play the bagpipes because the neighbors would harvest his organs for long-haggis.
Practicing your bagpipe in a crowded space would be uncivilized behavior...

An objective person is a person who understands that the universe does not revolve around their ego.

A civilized society is a society whose laws do not revolve around any one person or any one group of people.
The more a society treats everyone as equals the more civilized it is.

Equal rights. Equal protection. Equal pay for equal work. Equal punishment for equal crimes.

But treating everyone as equals is not the same thing as treating everyone exactly the same. If we treated everyone the way that extroverts want to be treated then people who are introverted would suffer. Treating everyone as if they were exactly the same is pseudo-civilization.

 

[Keith&Co.]

So you don't feel obligated to respect their delusion?

No I don't respect delusions. If you're bringing up "respect" as a matter of "do you argue with them?" then that depends on my mood and the social context.

Patton Oswalt has a great bit on the big floating anus.

Imagine someone is a good person because they think that there is a big giant anus floating invisibly over his head, and they believe that if they misbehave, the anus will suck them up where the shitweasels will get him.

Okay, fine. We appreciate that you have this belief, and we appreciate that this belief makes you a better person. And, you know, we respect your right to tell anyone who will listen about the big floating invisible anus ... But, no, we do not respect the big floating invisible anus NOR do we respect the belief in the big floating invisible anus. Nope. Nuh-uh. We just think you're crazy. NICE, but crazy.

And don't get us started on the shit weasels.

 

[no-one-particular]

You seem to be implying that everything that is nonmaterial is imaginary.

What would you use as a distinction between 'real nonmaterial' things and 'imaginary nonmaterial' things?

A square circle is imaginary. A circle is a real thing even though it is just an idea.

And as long as it remains 'just an idea,' it's imaginary.
We can list the rules that create and/or govern it, such as to make the imaginary circle different from an imaginary square, but it's still pretty imaginary.

No. As long as it remains 'just an idea' it is nonmaterial. Love is a real thing even though it is nonmaterial. Reality is why doesn't go away when you're not looking at it . Love doesn't go away when you're not looking at it

 

[no-one-particular]

Sin is a form of black and white all or nothing thinking. Sin is thought of as all-bad. Infinitely bad. In reality nothing is infinitely bad.

Sin is a square circle. It is purely imaginary. It cannot exist. It is irrational and self contradictory.

 

[Keith&Co.]

An objective person is a person who understands that the universe does not revolve around their ego.

Okay. Unless, of course, the person is a brain in a jar, then this objective person is actually delusional...

A civilized society is a society whose laws do not revolve around any one person or any one group of people.

How are you defining 'civilized' in this instance? And how are you defining 'group?'

The more a society treats everyone as equals the more civilized it is.

This really requires a definition of 'civilized.'

But treating everyone as equals is not the same thing as treating everyone exactly the same. If we treated everyone the way that extroverts want to be treated then people who are introverted would suffer. Treating everyone as if they were exactly the same is pseudo-civilization.

Okay, now how about a completely different question: So, how is (im)moral a delusion while (un)civilized is a fact?