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Skepticism

steve_bank

Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
Joined
Nov 9, 2017
Messages
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seattle
Basic Beliefs
secular-skeptic
I am not all that well read in philosophy, I ran across what appears to be a good summary.

I appliedd science for a living, but I never considered science s any kind of absolute truth. Sconce is based on System International units which are arbitrary. Any measurement is as a comparison to standards. Empirical knowledge quantitatively id relative. Without an absolute point of reference there is no absolute certainty.

"The map is not the countryside", and science is a map as I see it. The only certainty is a repeatable quantifiable observation or experiment.


Philosophical skepticism (UK spelling: scepticism; from Greek σκέψις skepsis, "inquiry") is a family of philosophical views that question the possibility of knowledge.[1][2] Philosophical skeptics are often classified into two general categories: Those who deny all possibility of knowledge, and those who advocate for the suspension of judgment due to the inadequacy of evidence.[3] This distinction is modeled after the differences between the Academic skeptics and the Pyrrhonian skeptics in ancient Greek philosophy.


Philosophical skepticism begins with the claim that one currently lacks knowledge.

Skepticism can be classified according to its scope. Local skepticism involves being skeptical about particular areas of knowledge (e.g. moral skepticism, skepticism about the external world, or skepticism about other minds), whereas radical skepticism claims that one cannot know anything—including that one cannot know about knowing anything.

Skepticism can also be classified according to its method. Western philosophy has two basic approaches to skepticism.[4] Cartesian skepticism—named somewhat misleadingly after René Descartes, who was not a skeptic but used some traditional skeptical arguments in his Meditations to help establish his rationalist approach to knowledge—attempts to show that any proposed knowledge claim can be doubted. Agrippan skepticism focuses on justification rather than the possibility of doubt. According to this view, none of the ways in which one might attempt to justify a claim are adequate. One can justify a claim based on other claims, but this leads to an infinite regress of justifications. One can use a dogmatic assertion, but this is not a justification. One can use circular reasoning, but this fails to justify the conclusion.

Philosophical skepticism is distinguished from methodological skepticism in that philosophical skepticism is an approach that questions the possibility of certainty in knowledge, whereas methodological skepticism is an approach that subjects all knowledge claims to scrutiny with the goal of sorting out true from false claims. Similarly, scientific skepticism differs from philosophical skepticism in that scientific skepticism is an epistemological position in which one questions the veracity of claims lacking empirical evidence. In practice, the term most commonly references the examination of claims and theories that appear to be pseudoscience, rather than the routine discussions and challenges among scientists.[5]
 

Cartesian doubt is a form of methodological skepticism associated with the writings and methodology of René Descartes (March 31, 1596–Feb 11, 1650).[1][2]: 88  Cartesian doubt is also known as Cartesian skepticism, methodic doubt, methodological skepticism, universal doubt, systematic doubt, or hyperbolic doubt.

Cartesian doubt is a systematic process of being skeptical about (or doubting) the truth of one's beliefs, which has become a characteristic method in philosophy.[3]: 403  Additionally, Descartes' method has been seen by many as the root of the modern scientific method. This method of doubt was largely popularized in Western philosophy by René Descartes, who sought to doubt the truth of all beliefs in order to determine which he could be certain were true. It is the basis for Descartes' statement, "Cogito ergo sum" (I think, therefore I am). A fuller version of his phrase: "dubito ergo cogito, cogito ergo sum" translates to "I doubt therefore I think, I think therefore I exist." Sum translated as "I exist" (per various Latin to English dictionaries) presents a much larger and clearer meaning to the phrase.

Methodological skepticism is distinguished from philosophical skepticism in that methodological skepticism is an approach that subjects all knowledge claims to scrutiny with the goal of sorting out true from false claims, whereas philosophical skepticism is an approach that questions the possibility of certain knowledge.[4]: 354 
 

For a general discussion of skepticism, see skepticism.

Scientific skepticism or rational skepticism (also spelled scepticism), sometimes referred to as skeptical inquiry,[1] is an epistemological position in which one questions the veracity of claims lacking empirical evidence. In practice, the term most commonly references the examination of claims and theories that appear to be beyond mainstream science, rather than the routine discussions and challenges among scientists. Scientific skepticism differs from philosophical skepticism, which questions humans' ability to claim any knowledge about the nature of the world and how they perceive it, and the similar but distinct methodological skepticism, which is a systematic process of being skeptical about (or doubting) the truth of one's beliefs.[2]

The skeptical movement (British spelling: sceptical movement) is a modern social movement based on the idea of scientific skepticism. The movement has the goal of investigating claims made on fringe topics and determining whether they are supported by empirical research and are reproducible, as part of a methodological norm pursuing "the extension of certified knowledge".[3]

Roots of the movement date at least from the 19th century, when people started publicly raising questions regarding the unquestioned acceptance of claims about spiritism, of various widely-held superstitions, and of pseudoscience.[4][5] Publications such as those of the Dutch Vereniging tegen de Kwakzalverij (1881) also targeted medical quackery. Using as a template the Belgian organization founded in 1949, Comité Para, Americans Paul Kurtz and Marcello Truzzi founded the Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal (CSICOP), in Amherst, New York, in 1976. Now known as the Committee for Skeptical Inquiry (CSI), this organization has inspired others to form similar groups worldwide.[6]
 
Faith is the abdication of ones own reasoning in favour of someone else's.

Given many people's lack of reasoning ability, it's not a strategy entirely lacking in merit.

But sadly, those without the ability to reason typically lack also the ability to select appropriate people to trust.

Mostly, people instinctively trust those who are most popular and/or famous - which is why they take medical advice from sports and movie stars.
 
Faith is the abdication of ones own reasoning in favour of someone else's.

Given many people's lack of reasoning ability, it's not a strategy entirely lacking in merit.

But sadly, those without the ability to reason typically lack also the ability to select appropriate people to trust.

Mostly, people instinctively trust those who are most popular and/or famous - which is why they take medical advice from sports and movie stars.
Faith is the ability to board an airplane.
 
Faith is the abdication of ones own reasoning in favour of someone else's.

Given many people's lack of reasoning ability, it's not a strategy entirely lacking in merit.

But sadly, those without the ability to reason typically lack also the ability to select appropriate people to trust.

Mostly, people instinctively trust those who are most popular and/or famous - which is why they take medical advice from sports and movie stars.
Faith is the ability to board an airplane.
Indeed. And it's completely justified, when the airplane was built by skilled aeronautical engineers and maintained and flown by experts.

But plenty of people would happily board a plane built by chimpanzees, if Gwyneth Paltrow said it was safe because it was all natural.

So there's faith, and then there's faith.
 
Faith is the abdication of ones own reasoning in favour of someone else's.

Given many people's lack of reasoning ability, it's not a strategy entirely lacking in merit.

But sadly, those without the ability to reason typically lack also the ability to select appropriate people to trust.

Mostly, people instinctively trust those who are most popular and/or famous - which is why they take medical advice from sports and movie stars.
Faith is the ability to board an airplane.

Trust built on experience and safety records. Trust and faith are not the same.
 
Faith is the abdication of ones own reasoning in favour of someone else's.

Given many people's lack of reasoning ability, it's not a strategy entirely lacking in merit.

But sadly, those without the ability to reason typically lack also the ability to select appropriate people to trust.

Mostly, people instinctively trust those who are most popular and/or famous - which is why they take medical advice from sports and movie stars.
Faith is the ability to board an airplane.
Indeed. And it's completely justified, when the airplane was built by skilled aeronautical engineers and maintained and flown by experts.

But plenty of people would happily board a plane built by chimpanzees, if Gwyneth Paltrow said it was safe because it was all natural.

So there's faith, and then there's faith.

Hmm. Okay, then faith is the ability to board a Boeing 737 Max.
 
Trust based on observation and experience is not faith. Asakwus both words are contextual.

There is faith based on experience in something or someone, and there is also blind faith. Blind faith is when one trusts even when it is shown to be misplaced.

Prime example, peoole who believe Trump is a business genius despite hs lo g string of busness falures.
 
If you have evidence, you don't need faith.

The definition of "evidence" may be a problem if some try to justify their faith based belief in God by using whatever it says in a holy book as evidence for the existence of their God.
 
If you have evidence, you don't need faith.

The definition of "evidence" may be a problem if some try to justify their faith based belief in God by using whatever it says in a holy book as evidence for the existence of their God.

It's a book, with multiple authors, and lots of people literally swear by it.
 
If you have evidence, you don't need faith.

The definition of "evidence" may be a problem if some try to justify their faith based belief in God by using whatever it says in a holy book as evidence for the existence of their God.

It's a book, with multiple authors, and lots of people literally swear by it.
Yes, and it says

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. - Hebrews 11:1

Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. Proverbs 3:5

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves - Ephesians 2:8

If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you. - Matthew 17:20

Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done. And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive. - Matthew 21:21-22

For we walk by faith, not by sight - 2 Corinthians 5:7

blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. - John 20:29




Good advice?
 
If you have evidence, you don't need faith.

The definition of "evidence" may be a problem if some try to justify their faith based belief in God by using whatever it says in a holy book as evidence for the existence of their God.

It's a book, with multiple authors, and lots of people literally swear by it.
Yes, and it says

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. - Hebrews 11:1

Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. Proverbs 3:5

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves - Ephesians 2:8

If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you. - Matthew 17:20

Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done. And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive. - Matthew 21:21-22

For we walk by faith, not by sight - 2 Corinthians 5:7

blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. - John 20:29

Good advice?

Good enough to inspire Martin Luther King Jr. to attempt to move a mountain.
 
If you have evidence, you don't need faith.

The definition of "evidence" may be a problem if some try to justify their faith based belief in God by using whatever it says in a holy book as evidence for the existence of their God.

It's a book, with multiple authors, and lots of people literally swear by it.
Yes, and it says

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. - Hebrews 11:1

Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. Proverbs 3:5

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves - Ephesians 2:8

If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you. - Matthew 17:20

Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done. And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive. - Matthew 21:21-22

For we walk by faith, not by sight - 2 Corinthians 5:7

blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. - John 20:29

Good advice?

Good enough to inspire Martin Luther King Jr. to attempt to move a mountain.

Martin Luther King Jr. had faith, no doubt about that, but it was not faith with which he attempted to move a mountain. It was hard work over a prolonged period of time and the grass roots participation of hundreds of thousands of activists that lead to the Civil Rights Act in 1964.

IhaveadreamMarines.jpg


Faith is also not necessarily a good thing. It "inspired" a rabid and unrelenting hatred of Jews in a previous Martin Luther and millions of others.
 
Martin Luther King Jr. had faith, no doubt about that, but it was not faith with which he attempted to move a mountain. It was hard work over a prolonged period of time and the grass roots participation of hundreds of thousands of activists that lead to the Civil Rights Act in 1964.

Faith is also not necessarily a good thing. It "inspired" a rabid and unrelenting hatred of Jews in a previous Martin Luther and millions of others.

I suppose Kant was right when he suggested that no virtue, other than a good will, could reliably produce good results. All other virtues can be used for evil as well as good.
 
I suppose Kant was right when he suggested that no virtue, other than a good will, could reliably produce good results.
Kant's conception of 'good will' makes his suggestion tautologous. "A good will is not good because of what it effects or accomplishes, because of its fitness to attain some proposed end, but only because of its volition, that is, it is good in itself." His Grundlegung is an exercise in circularity, but what else can you expect from metaphysics?
 
I suppose Kant was right when he suggested that no virtue, other than a good will, could reliably produce good results.
Kant's conception of 'good will' makes his suggestion tautologous. "A good will is not good because of what it effects or accomplishes, because of its fitness to attain some proposed end, but only because of its volition, that is, it is good in itself." His Grundlegung is an exercise in circularity, but what else can you expect from metaphysics?

I disagree. It's pragmatism. If a person has the virtue of intending good for himself and others, then the probability that he will actually achieve that good will be higher than if he intended harm.

And if he intended good for others, then all of his other virtues such as honesty, perseverance, strength, etc. would more likely be harnessed to accomplish good rather than evil.
 
I suppose Kant was right when he suggested that no virtue, other than a good will, could reliably produce good results.
Kant's conception of 'good will' makes his suggestion tautologous. "A good will is not good because of what it effects or accomplishes, because of its fitness to attain some proposed end, but only because of its volition, that is, it is good in itself." His Grundlegung is an exercise in circularity, but what else can you expect from metaphysics?

I disagree. It's pragmatism. If a person has the virtue of intending good for himself and others, then the probability that he will actually achieve that good will be higher than if he intended harm.

And if he intended good for others, then all of his other virtues such as honesty, perseverance, strength, etc. would more likely be harnessed to accomplish good rather than evil.
Believe it or not, there were people around who thought they were doing good by doing their level best to exterminate what they thought to be the twin scourges brought about by communists and Jews. At least 55 million human lives were lost in the process. Of course the perpetrators were wrong, but as far as they were concerned - and there were millions of them - they were convinced of their 'good will'. So, you see, the problem lies in having to define 'good'. Kant did not. He wrote that 'good will' is good in itself. It is not.
 
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