South Carolina police officer investigated after slamming student to ground at Spring Valley High

[Derec]

Me? Probably grab the front of the desk and start dragging it out with her in it. She would either have stubbornly stayed seated at the desk in which case she'd be out of the classroom when I got the desk out. Or she would have gotten up when I started moving the desk and then I could have escorted her out. The dragging desk option probably would have gotten the other kids lauging at the ridiculousness of it which may have caused her embarassment and again result in her getting out of the desk being led out of the classroom. If she wants to stay in the desk in the hallway that's cool. A call to her mother to come get her would have probably solved that problem.

Interesting tactic. It would make you look a bit silly too though. Also I do not think these desks fit easily though the doorway, especially if there is resistance.

I'm not surprised you do. However it's not the desk design's fault that the officer places a hand under her legs and flips.

My point is that the design makes it harder to extract somebody against their will.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

So our unnamed rag doll

Makes sense that you wouldn't view these people as people, but objects for your own entertainment.

 

[Derec]

Makes sense that you wouldn't view these people as people, but objects for your own entertainment.

It was a joke and I can hardly use her name since it wasn't released.
So ...

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Makes sense that you wouldn't view these people as people, but objects for your own entertainment.

It was a joke and I can hardly use her name since it wasn't released.
So ...

Sure, it was a joke. Right.

 

[ksen]

Interesting tactic. It would make you look a bit silly too though.

I don't mind looking a little silly if it means I can accomplish the task without assaulting a high school kid.

But then I'm a normal, empathetic human being.

 

[Derec]

From a witness:

 

[Rhea]

If that girl refused to leave the classroom when asked repeatedly (and I'm assuming the request for removal was justified only to pose the question), just how was the officer supposed to remove her if not by force? Did he slam her to the ground or did the desk flip over backward?

Some kids act out like that looking to prove they have power. This is the same thing as the idiot kids who walk slowly across a street just to demonstrate they can make you stop.

Yeah, yeah, you proved to yourself you can make me stop. Congrats. You're the only one who apparently didn't know you had that power.

So yeah, stupid kid. I can't watch video streaming, but I can picture the scene and have been in it.
Sometimes, you have to just wait until the end of class, lose the one and she has in-school suspension from then out. And a guidance counselor.

When you ask yourself, "what's more important losing one class, or refraining from assaulting a kid?" It's a lot like the question, "Does this arrest NEED to happen? So badly that I am willing to kill over it?"

The police (or resource officers) do not need to "win" every encounter in order to keep order. They really really don't. They can guide and teach.

SO MANY teachers, principles and even police manage to do this without being thugs. We should not defend the thugs, but rather point them to the successful best practices and teach them how to gain control without being a thug.

Interesting tactic. It would make you look a bit silly too though. Also I do not think these desks fit easily though the doorway, especially if there is resistance.

My goodness, well, yes, it is certainly better to look like a thug than to look silly. (not)

The risk of serious injury was a stupid risk that cop took. A fixed desk-chair like that being flipped over is just begging for a spine injury. He was a stupid fuck to be willing to risk that so that he didn't have to "look silly."

But you know what? Dragging the chair to the hallway wouldn't have even looked silly. It would have looked compassionate, caring. He would have made his _next_ encounter much easier by being that cop who cares about you instead of that cop who is a brainless brute.

 

[Rhea]

So now seeing Derec's post of the eyewitness, everyone involved has to ask if it was worth it to disrupt the entire class and risk injury over a phone.

It would be SO FUCKING EASY to say, "you need to put up the phone or you will not be allowed back into class tomorrow."

For all of you asking, "what else could they have done?" they could have done that. Let the stupid teen text on her stupid phone harming no one but herself and then have her sent to in-school suspension either at the end of class or the next day.

No violence needed AT. ALL.
No arrest record for a teen kid.
No risk of severe injury (I really can't get over how irresponsible it was of the cop not to think of that)
Just say, "kid, you can't come back tomorrow if you don't behave today. Your choice."

 

[ksen]

From a witness:

I'll see that and raise one:

http://www.theatlantic.com/national...arolina-spring-valley-officer-student/412588/

Tony Robinson Jr., a student who recorded the confrontation, told WLTX: “I’ve never seen anything so nasty looking, so sick to the point that you know, other students are turning away, don’t know what to do, and are just scared for their lives. That’s supposed to be somebody that’s going to protect us. Not somebody that we need to be scared of, or afraid.”

Good job making the resource officer a figure to be frightened of rather than one to be look for when help is needed.

 

[Playball40]

From a witness:

I would have took the phone. She would have followed!

 

[Toni]

Interesting tactic. It would make you look a bit silly too though. Also I do not think these desks fit easily though the doorway, especially if there is resistance.

So, your theory is that the contractor poured the foundation, laid the flooring, then the desks were arranged in the future classrooms and then the walls and doors and windows went up?

The classroom looked very standard. The desks looked very standard. The doorway looked very standard. The desk could have easily been moved from the classroom to the hallway and doubtless has been countless times before.

Yes, it would have been more difficult with someone sitting in the desk. Yes, if that person had decided to put up a fight about going through the door, that could have been more difficult. But the same is true if she had been standing and walking.

I'm not surprised you do. However it's not the desk design's fault that the officer places a hand under her legs and flips.

My point is that the design makes it harder to extract somebody against their will.

It is harder to move anybody against their will than it is with their compliance. A desk adds a bit, simply because it is not mobile on its own and requires physical effort to move. The officer seemed up to the task, as he handily grabbed and threw this student to the ground and continued throwing her about the room. Please note: she did not fight back in any way. The only resistance she offered was passive resistance.

It would require a bit of thought and strategic planning to move the student in the desk out of the classroom as a unit. That is something the officer seemed unable or unwilling to use. Brute force, he was good with, though.


What may have happened but was not seen in the video is: someone actually acting like a human being and extending a hand to this young student and suggesting that they go talk it out in the hallway. Maybe that happened. Maybe it did not. Maybe she would have complied. Maybe not. But we have zero evidence that such a strategy was attempted.

Also: I know that these days, schools and classroom teachers are loathe to lay hands on students in any way, shape or form. I can understand that. It can be a litigious world out there. And sometimes bad things happen. Why then, is the school willing to play Pilot and wipe its hands of the judgment to use a great deal of violent force against a member of its student body? It is hardly less likely to create less cause for a law suit. It is certainly less likely to win the hearts and minds of any of the student body. It does do an admirable job of preparing the students to comply or else, a life much more resembling life in prison than as a free, educated, productive citizen.

Must we have an underclass?

 

[Playball40]

Some kids act out like that looking to prove they have power. This is the same thing as the idiot kids who walk slowly across a street just to demonstrate they can make you stop.

Yeah, yeah, you proved to yourself you can make me stop. Congrats. You're the only one who apparently didn't know you had that power.

So yeah, stupid kid. I can't watch video streaming, but I can picture the scene and have been in it.
Sometimes, you have to just wait until the end of class, lose the one and she has in-school suspension from then out. And a guidance counselor.

When you ask yourself, "what's more important losing one class, or refraining from assaulting a kid?" It's a lot like the question, "Does this arrest NEED to happen? So badly that I am willing to kill over it?"

The police (or resource officers) do not need to "win" every encounter in order to keep order. They really really don't. They can guide and teach.

SO MANY teachers, principles and even police manage to do this without being thugs. We should not defend the thugs, but rather point them to the successful best practices and teach them how to gain control without being a thug.

Interesting tactic. It would make you look a bit silly too though. Also I do not think these desks fit easily though the doorway, especially if there is resistance.

My goodness, well, yes, it is certainly better to look like a thug than to look silly. (not)

The risk of serious injury was a stupid risk that cop took. A fixed desk-chair like that being flipped over is just begging for a spine injury. He was a stupid fuck to be willing to risk that so that he didn't have to "look silly."

But you know what? Dragging the chair to the hallway wouldn't have even looked silly. It would have looked compassionate, caring. He would have made his _next_ encounter much easier by being that cop who cares about you instead of that cop who is a brainless brute.

There is a rule in some of my kids' classes. NO phones/electronics. My daughter had her phone confiscated more than once and I had to come to the school to get it. If the teacher (or administrator) had just taken the phone, there's a good chance she would have followed it out the room. If she put it somewhere they couldn't get it, then it's no longer 'out', right? I agree that sliding the chair out of the room would have been a better solution - those types of desks/chairs are top heavy and slide easily on the VCT floors. Attempting to pick it up was asking for trouble - there's no way it wouldn't flip.

 

[ronburgundy]

So now seeing Derec's post of the eyewitness, everyone involved has to ask if it was worth it to disrupt the entire class and risk injury over a phone.

It would be SO FUCKING EASY to say, "you need to put up the phone or you will not be allowed back into class tomorrow."

Very easy to say, and also completely meaningless and ineffective since you'd have zero ability to keep her out of the class tomorrow without use of force.

 

[Rhea]

So now seeing Derec's post of the eyewitness, everyone involved has to ask if it was worth it to disrupt the entire class and risk injury over a phone.

It would be SO FUCKING EASY to say, "you need to put up the phone or you will not be allowed back into class tomorrow."

Very easy to say, and also completely meaningless and ineffective since you'd have zero ability to keep her out of the class tomorrow without use of force.

What? How can you say that. Hardly ineffective.
1. When she comes in the building she is standing up and not tucked in a desk.
2. She is not in a classroom stopping lessons
3. She becomes the one trying to attack YOU instead of you attacking HER
4. You're not trying to move a slump weight, you are stopping a live weight and now you only have to be just heavier.
5. You have time to plan and array resources.
6. Plus time to talk to her.

So yes, it's easy to say because it makes the situation MUCH more easy to deal with. Even _if_ you have to resort to force (which you really don't), you do not have to resort to violence, because now you control the location and the situation.

Places all over the country have this same problem and don't use violence. It's amazing.

 

[Trausti]

The consensus of this thread seems to be that the student refused peaceful requests to leave and force was necessary to remove her. And with 20/20 hindsight, some would have chosen a different option than the school officer. Excellent.

 

[Deepak]

So, your theory is that the contractor poured the foundation, laid the flooring, then the desks were arranged in the future classrooms and then the walls and doors and windows went up?

Even if, by some miracle, the desk didn't fit through the door there are a continuum of compliance techniques that the officer could have used (and was trained to). Pain compliance, like a wrist lock, is an option if the student is obstinate and doesn't leave of her own accord - but of course that doesn't sublimate roid rage as much as crashing someone into concrete.

 

[Toni]

Here's a link to a more detailed article. Please click on the embedded video interview with a student who was present in the classroom, and who shot video shared via the link.

It is clear to me that the police officer should not be in any position where he has any access to firearms, or authority over anybody. Not even as security guard at a liquor store. BTW, this is not the first time this officer has been involved in such incidents, and sued multiple times.

I also strongly question the continued employment of the classroom teacher and particularly, the administrator.


http://www.wltx.com/story/news/local/2015/10/26/spring-valley-high-school-incident/74645568/


There are a number of issues in this incident. The one that concerns me the most is how it affected the other students. Please note that another student was arrested! On what fucking basis, I cannot comprehend. She was arrested for speaking up, saying that the officer's treatment of the student: violently throwing her about.

Her original offense: She looked at her cell phone in a classroom.


BTW, the video we have access to was taken by a student held cellphones.


What does this tell students? How are these students expected to trust their teacher, their administrator, principal, police officers? How are they expected to learn in such an environment?

 

[Toni]

She was disruptive and was asked by her teacher to leave. She refused. She again refused to get out when asked by an administrator so the cop was called in. She refused his commands again where he warned her he'd get her out. She refused again so he did it. She only has herself to blame.

Well of course she needed to be slammed to the ground and dragged around. She did not obey commands like a good female should do. She was black and female. I get it. We ALL get it, Derec.

- - - Updated - - -

Makes sense that you wouldn't view these people as people, but objects for your own entertainment.

It was a joke and I can hardly use her name since it wasn't released.
So ...

Yeah, none of us are at all surprised at your 'joke.'

 

[laughing dog]

If any civilian had done that, it would be assault. I see no reason why the officer should not be charged with the same crime. This student was not endangering anyone. It is beyond belief that any member of the human race would defend such needless violence.

I do not see an assault here, sorry.
Let's say you went to a cafe and for whatever reason the waitress told you you had to leave. You refused to get up and leave. Then the manager comes and tells you the same thing. You still won't budge. Then they call police and the officer tells you to leave of you'd be arrested. You still refuse so you get removed forcibly and arrested. That isn't assault either. The reason this looks bad on the surface is the small stature of the girl (but small stature doesn't imply she was in the right and the cop in the wrong) and the silly chair-desk combo so common in schools that made it harder for the cop to remove her.

Again, if you did that or I did that to someone sitting in a chair, it would be assault. It is assault. The fact you think police should be able to commit assault with impunity in this case does not negate that what the officer did was assault.

 

[ronburgundy]

But you know what? Dragging the chair to the hallway wouldn't have even looked silly. It would have looked compassionate, caring.

IT would have looked violent, because it would have tipped over. She was not being passive, she was actively physically resisting. She would have used her own feet to stop it from sliding and the tug of war would have resulted in it toppling over precisely because it is top-heavy like you pointed out. That approach could easily have resulted in worse injury than she actually obtained and laughing dog would throw you in prison for assault. BTW, he did not try to pick the desk up. He tried to scoop her up out of the desk and she lunged backward pushing her feet against the floor which sent the desk toppling backward. She went to the ground because she physically fought back as she would have no matter what magical method you think you would have used.

NO phones/electronics. My daughter had her phone confiscated more than once and I had to come to the school to get it. If the teacher (or administrator) had just taken the phone, there's a good chance she would have followed it out the room.

And how would you get the phone from her? By force would be the only way and like she did here, she would physically resist very easily resulting in injury, a broken finger, etc., and laughing dog would throw you in prison for assault, because by his standard cops should get the same punishment a non-cop would get for the same action.

Bottom line is that there were only 2 options, use of force that could result in injury or do nothing and allow her to continue to sit there on her phone. If the latter is chosen, then the cop should never have been called because forcing compliance is a definitional part of law enforcement.