South Carolina police officer investigated after slamming student to ground at Spring Valley High

[Rhea]

The consensus of this thread seems to be that the student refused peaceful requests to leave and force was necessary to remove her. And with 20/20 hindsight, some would have chosen a different option than the school officer. Excellent.

FYI - not hindsight. Some of us have faced recalcitrant teens before and with current sight chose completely differently. She is not the first teen in the universe to say, "no," 15 times. We weren't all waiting for this cop to be the first one to deal with it.

 

[laughing dog]

The consensus of this thread seems to be that the student refused peaceful requests to leave and force was necessary to remove her.

Try reading without those ideological blinders.

 

[Rhea]

Bottom line is that there were only 2 options, use of force that could result in injury or do nothing and allow her to continue to sit there on her phone.

Nope. Absolutely not a supported argument. Far more than 2 choices. As evidenced by every parent of every teen on the planet. And every teacher of every teen on the planet. This guy is the outlier. It is not normal, it is not effective, it is not right.

 

[Shadowy Man]

On the bright side, even if they didn't absorb any academic information all those kids learned a very important life lesson in the classroom that day.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

The consensus of this thread seems to be that the student refused peaceful requests to leave and force was necessary to remove her. And with 20/20 hindsight, some would have chosen a different option than the school officer. Excellent.

Hindsight isn't much of a factor, considering that these events have happened many times before.

 

[Toni]

IT would have looked violent, because it would have tipped over. She was not being passive, she was actively physically resisting.

No. She was not actively resisting. Another video you didn't actually watch. She didn't even speak out, but remained completely silent.

She would have used her own feet to stop it from sliding and the tug of war would have resulted in it toppling over precisely because it is top-heavy like you pointed out. That approach could easily have resulted in worse injury than she actually obtained and laughing dog would throw you in prison for assault. BTW, he did not try to pick the desk up. He tried to scoop her up out of the desk and she lunged backward pushing her feet against the floor which sent the desk toppling backward. She went to the ground because she physically fought back as she would have no matter what magical method you think you would have used.

A lot of speculation on your part, completely unsupported by anything other than your imagination. Certainly not by viewing the video. Which depicted assault by the police officer.

NO phones/electronics. My daughter had her phone confiscated more than once and I had to come to the school to get it. If the teacher (or administrator) had just taken the phone, there's a good chance she would have followed it out the room.

And how would you get the phone from her? By force would be the only way and like she did here, she would physically resist very easily resulting in injury, a broken finger, etc., and laughing dog would throw you in prison for assault, because by his standard cops should get the same punishment a non-cop would get for the same action.

Bottom line is that there were only 2 options, use of force that could result in injury or do nothing and allow her to continue to sit there on her phone. If the latter is chosen, then the cop should never have been called because forcing compliance is a definitional part of law enforcement.

The girl had in fact, put her cell phone away when she was ordered out of the classroom. Which is why she didn't comply: she wasn't violating class policy.

Do you know what the source of video for this incident is? It's cell phone video taken by other students. If you click on the link I provided (which I realize you absolutely will not do because you've already made up your mind and do not need to be confused by facts or eye witnesses), you will note that the other students were traumatized by the events, made worse by arresting another student for speaking out against the brutal assault carried out by a police officer.

 

[ronburgundy]

The consensus of this thread seems to be that the student refused peaceful requests to leave and force was necessary to remove her.

Try reading without those ideological blinders.

More accurately try laughing dogs ideological blinders on, although he/she never takes them off so you might have borrow them from someone else. Use of force was in fact necessary to remove her and to stop her from disrupting the class.
However, several people who share laughing dog's brand of blinders have made claims that they could have removed her without any force or "violence", though such claims are baseless and contradict by all fact and logic. They have also claimed they could just magically take her phone away without force, again refuted by any reasoned analysis of her actions showing she would physically resist all such efforts.

The only plausible option to use of force was to essentially do nothing and never have called the cop to begin with. One possible alternative would be if her refusal to leave could be treated under law as a criminal act of trespassing. That would give the cop some bargaining leverage to threaten arrest, fine and/or jail-time if she did not leave willingly. Maybe that would have worked, but quite possibly not since she was clearly hell-bent on trying to get attention be defiant for its own sake. But even then, many here and the mindless internet outrage machine would be up in arms if she was arrested, dishonestly claiming she was "arrested for using her phone while black".

 

[Shadowy Man]

I wonder if the people defending the cop's actions feel that he would have been justified in drawing his firearm and pointing it at her as a means to having her leave the classroom. Do you think she would have left on her own feet had he drawn his firearm? If he drew his firearm and she still did not leave the classroom, do you think that would have been justification for shooting her?

What do you believe are the rightful actions available to the police officer in removing her from the classroom and which do you feel are the most appropriate for him to take?

 

[Toni]

Bottom line is that there were only 2 options, use of force that could result in injury or do nothing and allow her to continue to sit there on her phone.

Nope. Absolutely not a supported argument. Far more than 2 choices. As evidenced by every parent of every teen on the planet. And every teacher of every teen on the planet. This guy is the outlier. It is not normal, it is not effective, it is not right.

Except that the teacher of this classroom did not effectively deal with the student using any of the strategies an intelligent, experienced adult who works with adolescents would have used. Nor did the administrator who was called.

Which is why the police officer's job isn't the only one which should be in jeopardy.

- - - Updated - - -

I wonder if the people defending the cop's actions feel that he would have been justified in drawing his firearm and pointing it at her as a means to having her leave the classroom. Do you think she would have left on her own feet had he drawn his firearm? If he drew his firearm and she still did not leave the classroom, do you think that would have been justification for shooting her?

What do you believe are the rightful actions available to the police officer in removing her from the classroom and which do you feel are the most appropriate for him to take?

Well, at some point, she had glanced at her cell phone and refused to follow orders so of course, she should have been shot. At least 7 times. I believe that's the agreed upon number of shots against teenagers which have been justified.

 

[scombrid]

If that girl refused to leave the classroom when asked repeatedly (and I'm assuming the request for removal was justified only to pose the question), just how was the officer supposed to remove her if not by force? Did he slam her to the ground or did the desk flip over backward?

I saw a 4'8" 60 year old French teacher physically remove a 200 lb fatass 10th grader from my 8th grade French class. He was being disruptive. She said leave. He ignored her. She dragged him and his desk into the hall and locked him out of the room. She managed this without tipping him onto the floor. I'm pretty sure the school cop didn't need to go full combat mode to achieve the goal of forceful removal of a mouthy little girl from the room.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

On the bright side, even if they didn't absorb any academic information all those kids learned a very important life lesson in the classroom that day.

Exactly. Always submit to the demands of the authorities and never try to exert or express your free will. Hopefullly, this independent thought moment was an outlier for her and she'll learn from this and grow up to be a compliant slave who doesn't question government directives.

 

[laughing dog]

Try reading without those ideological blinders.

More accurately try laughing dogs ideological blinders on, although he/she never takes them off so you might have borrow them from someone else. Use of force was in fact necessary to remove her and to stop her from disrupting the class.
However, several people who share laughing dog's brand of blinders have made claims that they could have removed her without any force or "violence", though such claims are baseless and contradict by all fact and logic. They have also claimed they could just magically take her phone away without force, again refuted by any reasoned analysis of her actions showing she would physically resist all such efforts.

Anyone with even a first grade level of reading comprehension would see that there is no consensus that force was necessary. So your belch of a response is irrelevant.

The only plausible option to use of force was to essentially do nothing and never have called the cop to begin with. One possible alternative would be if her refusal to leave could be treated under law as a criminal act of trespassing. That would give the cop some bargaining leverage to threaten arrest, fine and/or jail-time if she did not leave willingly. Maybe that would have worked, but quite possibly not since she was clearly hell-bent on trying to get attention be defiant for its own sake. But even then, many here and the mindless internet outrage machine would be up in arms if she was arrested, dishonestly claiming she was "arrested for using her phone while black".

Let's break this down to the most simplest component. Was flipping the desk over with the student in it the best course of action? I realize this is hard, but a simple yes or no will suffice.

 

[scombrid]

Very easy to say, and also completely meaningless and ineffective since you'd have zero ability to keep her out of the class tomorrow without use of force.

"Force"

Physically obstruct person from entering the room and lock the door once class begins.

Flip your shit and throw person all over the place.

One is reasonable use. Other is generally considered an assault. Unless rules are changing and I'm missing the changes.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Well, there is force and then there is force.

Dragging the desk is force, but it isn't battery.

or what a friend of mine did with a similar situation

When the student would not leave the class room, the assistant principal was called not the police. He asked the student to come with him, the student refused. The principal then asked a couple of football players who were also in the class to help him. They then lifted the desk with the student in it and carried student and desk out into the hall. Once there was no audience, the student got out of the desk and went to the office.

Again, a use of force, but not a battery.

 

[Deepak]

On the bright side, even if they didn't absorb any academic information all those kids learned a very important life lesson in the classroom that day.

Exactly. Always submit to the demands of the authorities and never try to exert or express your free will. Hopefullly, this independent thought moment was an outlier for her and she'll learn from this and grow up to be a compliant slave who doesn't question government directives.

"If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever."

 

[scombrid]

Bottom line is that there were only 2 options, use of force that could result in injury or do nothing and allow her to continue to sit there on her phone.

False dichotomy.

There is a force continuum and a concomitant continuum of injury risk.

Cop in this case pretty much maxed out the force option from the outset which does not seem reasonable given the objective of removal of the unarmed recalcitrant brat.

 

[Rhea]

Try reading without those ideological blinders.

More accurately try laughing dogs ideological blinders on, although he/she never takes them off so you might have borrow them from someone else. Use of force was in fact necessary to remove her and to stop her from disrupting the class.
However, several people who share laughing dog's brand of blinders have made claims that they could have removed her without any force or "violence", though such claims are baseless and contradict by all fact and logic.

I don't know anything about you. I don't know if you went to a high school where students were sometimes non-compliant, or whether you were sometimes non-compliant yourself, or if you have children or if they are teenagers, or if you are a teacher, coach, tutor or counselor who has dealt with non-compliant teenagers. Or if you have ever dealt with large kids who have social handicaps.

But all fact and logic demonstrate that this is not the first kid to be non-compliant and that thousands of other adults have dealt with it using NEITHER violence nor inaction.

This is not an unusual situation. Really, it ain't. Lots and lots and lots of people have shown how to handle it.

The only plausible option to use of force was to essentially do nothing and never have called the cop to begin with.

I think your lack of vision is shared by this cop. He shouldn't be a cop. He's not qualified. Because he thinks like this.

One possible alternative would be if her refusal to leave could be treated under law as a criminal act of trespassing. That would give the cop some bargaining leverage to threaten arrest, fine and/or jail-time if she did not leave willingly. Maybe that would have worked, but quite possibly not since she was clearly hell-bent on trying to get attention be defiant for its own sake. But even then, many here and the mindless internet outrage machine would be up in arms if she was arrested, dishonestly claiming she was "arrested for using her phone while black".

And ask yourself, really. Was using the phone "disruptive"? worth "force" That's just so stupid and short-sighted. And wrong. And really, how'd that work out, huh? Ended the "disruption," did they? It was a(nother) stupid reaction based in authoritarianism.

 

[ksen]

Bottom line is that there were only 2 options, use of force that could result in injury or do nothing and allow her to continue to sit there on her phone. If the latter is chosen, then the cop should never have been called because forcing compliance is a definitional part of law enforcement.

Those aren't the only two options but for the sake of this part of the discussion I'll agree and say it would have been less harmful to everyone in the room to just allow the girl to text until class was over and deal with it then.

 

[ksen]

On the bright side, even if they didn't absorb any academic information all those kids learned a very important life lesson in the classroom that day.

Exactly. Always submit to the demands of the authorities and never try to exert or express your free will. Hopefullly, this independent thought moment was an outlier for her and she'll learn from this and grow up to be a compliant slave who doesn't question government directives.

It's the American Way.

 

[laughing dog]

Hindsight is not required to understand that flipping a desk over with a student sitting in it is dangerous (and possibly lethal) - only basic common sense. It does not take an exceptional level of experience or intelligence or courage to see that there are a number of less violent solutions to this relatively minor situation.