Stephen Hawking dumped into Hell

[Ramaraksha]

I put this thread in this section because of my disappointment with those who talk, read and study morals and principles and yet remain silent when it comes to religion. As you know the great scientist Stephen Hawking passed away recently and reading some of the posts from people - anonymous of course - is the ready willingness to dump him into hell because he is an Atheist

That's all it takes? What he did in life doesn't matter? All that he contributed to the advancement of humanity doesn't matter?

We must ask - where are these ideas coming from? Picture North Korea today or Russians living under Stalin - how does one get a good life? By making sure you are on the good side of the Master/Dictator, who pleased with your loyalty will reward you. Now, you are more in his debt. The good life will stop if the dictator is removed - now you are ready to punish/kill anyone who is suspected of not supporting him or plotting against him

That was the life back in the day when people lived under Kings. If you were forced to leave your present place because of drought or some other disaster, and sought refuge in a different kingdom, brought before the king, you will have to swear loyalty and obedience to this new king before he will let you stay in his kingdom. The king doesn't care what kind of a person you are, what skills you have, his main priority is that can you be trusted or not? or are you a spy? sent to plot against him? We see the same pattern repeated in religious ideas - entrance to Heaven, God's kingdom, is only for the believers - unbelievers are turned away, sent to hell

That is the crux of the idea that Hawking will find himself in hell

And this is where i go, but, but, but, we don't live in medieval times anymore! We don't beg and grovel our way into anything! We live in democracies, not in North Korea, not under Dictators! And yet the comments that condemn good people to hell continue. Religious people continue to live in the past, blindly continue to follow primitive ideas of God and the Heavens

Where are the moral and ethical to point out that being judged based on simple belief is wrong? Hitler did that - he condemned all jews to hell - who they were as people, what they did in life did not matter to him. ISIS did the same exact thing - if you were not muslim, you got shot in the head. Collective, not individual, condemnation and reward! And yet religious people continue to echo the same exact thoughts and yet there is no pushback

Today no one would dare use the N-word in public - they know that they would face immediate pushback, but the fact that religious people continue to condemn good people shows that they face little pushback - that the moral and ethical among us remain silent, that the educated among us remain silent

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Remain silent? It is more like we don't care. They don't get to run the schools or at least we try to keep it that way.

 

[braces_for_impact]

If you look on Reddit and other message-type boards, it's true that you can see certain Christians rejoicing that Hawking now "knows" there is a god. There's pushback as well. I certainly haven't actually heard anything in public and were I too I would probably remark on such an asinine comment.

Note that I don't think Hawking was above criticism or that he shouldn't be spoken of negatively because he's dead. If you're going to pronounce judgments on someone after they pass away, I think that's legitimate up to a certain point. I just believe they should be judged by their actions and their results in the real world.

 

[Ramaraksha]

If you look on Reddit and other message-type boards, it's true that you can see certain Christians rejoicing that Hawking now "knows" there is a god. There's pushback as well. I certainly haven't actually heard anything in public and were I too I would probably remark on such an asinine comment.
Note that I don't think Hawking was above criticism or that he shouldn't be spoken of negatively because he's dead. If you're going to pronounce judgments on someone after they pass away, I think that's legitimate up to a certain point. I just believe they should be judged by their actions and their results in the real world.

What? Excuse me? Where did i say he was perfect and should not be criticized? My whole point of the post was how he was going to be set apart and/or sent to hell based on the fact that he is an Atheist - a non-believer or a disloyal person - that would make sense in a medieval world but does not today

As for pushback - i don't see any - pushback would mean people would hesitate to post such abusive comments, pushback would mean articles, editorials, even letters - not just forum posts in Atheist boards

I gave the example of the N-word - no one uses it today - no one would dare use it in a public forum, there are letters, articles, editorials commenting on those who still do & yet for ideas that harken Hitler and ISIS, there are zero

 

[Playball40]

I've seen it and I have pushed back (or at least replied back).

I put this thread in this section because of my disappointment with those who talk, read and study morals and principles and yet remain silent when it comes to religion. As you know the great scientist Stephen Hawking passed away recently and reading some of the posts from people - anonymous of course - is the ready willingness to dump him into hell because he is an Atheist

That's all it takes? What he did in life doesn't matter? All that he contributed to the advancement of humanity doesn't matter?

We must ask - where are these ideas coming from? Picture North Korea today or Russians living under Stalin - how does one get a good life? By making sure you are on the good side of the Master/Dictator, who pleased with your loyalty will reward you. Now, you are more in his debt. The good life will stop if the dictator is removed - now you are ready to punish/kill anyone who is suspected of not supporting him or plotting against him

That was the life back in the day when people lived under Kings. If you were forced to leave your present place because of drought or some other disaster, and sought refuge in a different kingdom, brought before the king, you will have to swear loyalty and obedience to this new king before he will let you stay in his kingdom. The king doesn't care what kind of a person you are, what skills you have, his main priority is that can you be trusted or not? or are you a spy? sent to plot against him? We see the same pattern repeated in religious ideas - entrance to Heaven, God's kingdom, is only for the believers - unbelievers are turned away, sent to hell

That is the crux of the idea that Hawking will find himself in hell

And this is where i go, but, but, but, we don't live in medieval times anymore! We don't beg and grovel our way into anything! We live in democracies, not in North Korea, not under Dictators! And yet the comments that condemn good people to hell continue. Religious people continue to live in the past, blindly continue to follow primitive ideas of God and the Heavens

Where are the moral and ethical to point out that being judged based on simple belief is wrong? Hitler did that - he condemned all jews to hell - who they were as people, what they did in life did not matter to him. ISIS did the same exact thing - if you were not muslim, you got shot in the head. Collective, not individual, condemnation and reward! And yet religious people continue to echo the same exact thoughts and yet there is no pushback

Today no one would dare use the N-word in public - they know that they would face immediate pushback, but the fact that religious people continue to condemn good people shows that they face little pushback - that the moral and ethical among us remain silent, that the educated among us remain silent

 

[braces_for_impact]

If you look on Reddit and other message-type boards, it's true that you can see certain Christians rejoicing that Hawking now "knows" there is a god. There's pushback as well. I certainly haven't actually heard anything in public and were I too I would probably remark on such an asinine comment.
Note that I don't think Hawking was above criticism or that he shouldn't be spoken of negatively because he's dead. If you're going to pronounce judgments on someone after they pass away, I think that's legitimate up to a certain point. I just believe they should be judged by their actions and their results in the real world.

What? Excuse me? Where did i say he was perfect and should not be criticized? My whole point of the post was how he was going to be set apart and/or sent to hell based on the fact that he is an Atheist - a non-believer or a disloyal person - that would make sense in a medieval world but does not today

As for pushback - i don't see any - pushback would mean people would hesitate to post such abusive comments, pushback would mean articles, editorials, even letters - not just forum posts in Atheist boards

I gave the example of the N-word - no one uses it today - no one would dare use it in a public forum, there are letters, articles, editorials commenting on those who still do & yet for ideas that harken Hitler and ISIS, there are zero

It wasn't my attempt to malign your motives. I understand your meaning. I was just <attempting} to clarify my position. A common charge levelled by Christians is that we atheists "worship" people like Hawking. I was just trying to make clear that I don't believe anyone is above criticism, just that I think they should be judged on what they've done, not necessarily only on their beliefs.

 

[Jon Osterman]

Assuming for a moment that traditional Christianity were true, why would it be a problem that Hawking was in hell?

 

[Ramaraksha]

It wasn't my attempt to malign your motives. I understand your meaning. I was just <attempting} to clarify my position. A common charge levelled by Christians is that we atheists "worship" people like Hawking. I was just trying to make clear that I don't believe anyone is above criticism, just that I think they should be judged on what they've done, not necessarily only on their beliefs.

That's ok sorry if i overreacted. The word Judge is a tough one - esp where religion is concerned - theists speak with a forked tongue - they will go to the victim and say God will judge, God will not the evil person get away without facing punishment and then they turn around and talk about God's mercy, just repent and nice God will forgive

How does repentance help the victim? The recent school shootings - apparently the shooter is repentant - will that make the fathers, mothers, friends and relatives of the victims feel better? How about the victims themselves? They were robbed of life - enjoying life, going to movies, dates, college, a career, falling in love, marriage, kids - the fathers, mothers, relatives and friends were robbed as well because they will never get to enjoy those times with these kids

Define is a better word - one is defined by one's actions - just like taking a test - you get the grades you deserve - the teacher does not "judge" your paper, he or she will give the grade that the paper earned

But that doesn't sit well with religions that promote conversions - the prospect of being forgiven for evil acts acts as a conversion tool - yes you did bad things but you won't have to pay for them - just cry, tell God you are so sorry, then you are done and of course, "only our God will forgive"

 

[Ramaraksha]

Assuming for a moment that traditional Christianity were true, why would it be a problem that Hawking was in hell?

I have answered that question in my post - these are ideas born when Kings/Dictators/Strongmen ruled - for such people with enemies everywhere, those living under them must prove their loyalty. If suspected of disloyalty, you either get killed or get thrown out. We know that the brother of Kim Jong Un was killed - made headlines - he was a threat to that Dictator. And of course scores of people have been killed upon the orders of Putin. England recently broke ties with Russia on this issue - finally a backbone

That these people were good people - with families, loved ones - does not matter to the Dictator - you are disloyal - you must be killed!

And that is what these religions echo - dirty morals that don't belong in modern civilized societies

It's one thing for a King/Dictator to have people killed or harmed, it is amazing that few question why God, the maker of this huge universe, would be so hung up on loyalty and obedience. All he cares is which religion you belong to? All that you did in life does not matter?

Have we solved the question of the purpose of life? To make sure we join the right religion! That is the reason why we are here?

The stupidity of these ideas are astounding. The silence of the educated and moral even more!

It is easy to figure out why religion continues to push such ideas - such ideas come from proselytizing religions - it is a conversion tool - you get the good life only if you kneel to our dictator/king - which made a lot of sense to our ancestors living under kings/Dictators/Strongmen. To say good people are with God, bad people are not would undermine conversions - there would be no need to convert to any religion. It is like living in a corrupt country - the only way a corrupt official can get easy money is by putting down one's qualifications - if by qualifications alone one can get a job or a contract, the corrupt official would get no money. The only way the corrupt official would benefit is by making sure that one's qualifications are not enough, one must have the right contacts or the ability to grease palms

Again, I am just amazed that in the 21st century these ideas continue to be tolerated

 

[Ramaraksha]

Remain silent? It is more like we don't care. They don't get to run the schools or at least we try to keep it that way.

I am sorry, to me that sounds like an excuse. These ideas preach hate and division - ok as in individual maybe you don't care but zero letters? zero editorials? zero articles, columns? That's hard to take

You have heard of mob mentality? Seemingly good people suddenly becoming evil when they become a mob? Well, that is because of stress. Right now you live in a country that is not under stress. Let's suppose climate change becomes a reality - crops fail, millions are either freezing or frying to death. Naturally people will turn to God for help and when such help is not forthcoming what will they do? They will ask their religious leaders and that will give them a chance to put Atheists away. "God is not helping because of Atheists, unbelievers among us" - that will set off a whole lot of killing - once they are done with Atheists, they will turn to minority religions

It has been done in the past - people were killed - in the millions for not being religious - and will happen again unless and until we speak up

 

[untermensche]

The problem is religious fundamentalism.

Those that think they have the right to intrude into the world with their religion because they are certain of it's truth.

The rational people should shut them down.

But right now there are so many of them.

Perhaps humans will one day progress to the point where the religious believers are a rare rare thing.

 

[Kharakov]

Perhaps humans will one day progress to the point where the religious believers are a rare rare thing.

You're now claiming that humans are not a rare rare thing?

You're taking your anti-infinite stance a little bit of an infinite amount too far this time!

 

[untermensche]

Humans are not rare. There are billions of them. I see them constantly.

You should look up the definition of "rare".

 

[Kharakov]

Humans are not rare. There are billions of them. I see them constantly.

Ok, so you've counted billions of humans with your global network of cameras, that totally could not be hacked?

Let's assume that billions of them exist, how do they compare to the number of entities in the universe, in terms of rarity? Compare the number of humans to stars, maybe protons, maybe planets? Are they rare compared to stars? How about, are they rare compared to galaxies?

You should look up the definition of "rare".

That went well.

"I don't normally eat humans, but when I do, I like them rare." Jesus

Show

"I like them tartarus." Cerebralus

"You're both tardis." rumbled Uranus, the first Cosmic Time Lord, also known as the one true Schwartz Chrystall.

 

[beero1000]

Humanity makes up approximately 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of the matter in the universe.

 

[Elixir]

Humanity makes up approximately 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of the matter in the universe.

Yabut, humanity makes up approximately 99.9999999999999999999999999999999% of what humans consider to be facts.

 

[Lion IRC]

What sort of afterlife might someone like Stephen Hawking experience according to Hindu karma?
...hypothetically speaking.

 

[untermensche]

Humans are not rare. There are billions of them. I see them constantly.

Ok, so you've counted billions of humans with your global network of cameras, that totally could not be hacked?

Let's assume that billions of them exist, how do they compare to the number of entities in the universe, in terms of rarity? Compare the number of humans to stars, maybe protons, maybe planets? Are they rare compared to stars? How about, are they rare compared to galaxies?

You should look up the definition of "rare".

That went well.

"I don't normally eat humans, but when I do, I like them rare." Jesus

Show

"I like them tartarus." Cerebralus

"You're both tardis." rumbled Uranus, the first Cosmic Time Lord, also known as the one true Schwartz Chrystall.

You are lost.

The word "rare" does not apply to humans in a conversation with humans.

 

[Politesse]

What sort of afterlife might someone like Stephen Hawking experience according to Hindu karma?
...hypothetically speaking.

He would simply begin another life, yes?

 

[Lion IRC]

Yeah.
I was just wondering whether it would be better or worse.