Suicide - Christian responses to Robin Williams

[Rhea]

So I went and read Matt Walsh's blog post on Williams' suicide because some liberal Christians I hang with were horrified by it.

And I have one thing I'm curious about. Most of the article, of course was insensitive arrogant self-righteousness (which, from what I understand, is this guy's specialty?) and was clinically wrong on every front. But he did have one message hidden in there, "just be sure your admiration for him and hopes for his peace don't give other depressed people ideas." Still, the way he said that was,

Free? I’ve seen a lot of this kind of rhetoric. Robin Williams is “in a better place,” he is “free,” he is “at peace,” he is “smiling down upon us,” he’s “happy.”
This all might seem pleasant enough, but have we stopped to think how it looks and sounds to those who may be contemplating this heinous deed themselves?

And I thought to myself, wait, you're a christian. You _do_ think he's free and at peace now, don't you? Isn't that what Christians really think happens when you die? Soooooo.... still try to get medical help and everything, but, yeah, he probably is free and at peace now, right? Right?

Or did you really just say, "Jesus' message of redemption might seem pleasant enough, BUT... don't tell anyone that because it might make them want to hurry to there"?

 

[Keith&Co.]

No, we SAY he's in a better place, because funerals are about the living.
The guest of honor is there so we can all show how much we're affected, how much we've lost, how we'll honor the memory.

Many actually believe suicide is a sin and as such he can't possibly be in a better place. He's not at peace, he's not smiling down. At least not in their actual theology.
It is of course up to God, but he's referring to it as a heinous deed. God doesn't typically reward those...

 

[sdelsolray]

Walsh is simply assuming (without evidence) and projecting (without concern) a common theist grandiosity that He, as well as each homo sapien sapiens, is special and has eternal life (whatever that means).

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

He's right on that one point from a totally secular perspective. Other than that you need to ask yourself what if anything you've accomplished when you've bested a fool. Most often the best response is to humor.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Or did you really just say, "Jesus' message of redemption might seem pleasant enough, BUT... don't tell anyone that because it might make them want to hurry to there"?

Or, just refer them to the Robin William's movie with the message that suicides all go to Hell because they're confused and wrong. Completely independent of God or Jesus or judgment, that was just how it worked.

 

[Thomas II]

Do animals commit suicide? Yes, some do...Do they "go to hell"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_suicide

 

[SLD]

Westboro Baptist Church is planning to attend his funeral.



Gotta love it!

SLD

 

[SLD]

And another one:



SLD

 

[bigfield]

Direct link to the article: http://themattwalshblog.com/2014/08/12/robin-williams-didnt-die-disease-died-choice/ (yours just goes to the homepage).

And I thought to myself, wait, you're a christian. You _do_ think he's free and at peace now, don't you? Isn't that what Christians really think happens when you die? Soooooo.... still try to get medical help and everything, but, yeah, he probably is free and at peace now, right? Right?

Or did you really just say, "Jesus' message of redemption might seem pleasant enough, BUT... don't tell anyone that because it might make them want to hurry to there"?

I didn't get that from the article. I'm guessing one has to be familiar with Walsh in order to pick up the religious implications.

This is the part that stood out to me:

It’s a tragic choice, truly, but it is a choice, and we have to remember that. Your suicide doesn't happen to you; it doesn't attack you like cancer or descend upon you like a tornado. It is a decision made by an individual. A bad decision. Always a bad decision.

It is not a bad decision to take one's own life if one's only other choice is to suffer even longer without hope.

And this part:

First, suicide does not claim anyone against their will. No matter how depressed you are, you never have to make that choice. That choice. Whether you call depression a disease or not, please don’t make the mistake of saying that someone who commits suicide “died from depression.” No, he died from his choice. He died by his own hand. Depression will not appear on the autopsy report, because it can’t kill you on its own. It needs you to pull the trigger, take the pills, or hang the rope. To act like death by suicide is exactly analogous to death by malaria or heart failure is to steal hope from the suicidal person. We think we are comforting him, but in fact we are convincing him that he is powerless. We are giving him a way out, an excuse. Sometimes that’s all he needs — the last straw.
Second, we can debate medication dosages and psychotherapy treatments, but, in the end, joy is the only thing that defeats depression. No depressed person in the history of the world has ever been in the depths of despair and at the heights of joy at the same time. The two cannot coexist. Joy is light, depression is darkness. When we are depressed, we have trouble seeing joy, or feeling it, or feeling worthy of it. I know that in my worst times, at my lowest points, it’s not that I don’t see the joy in creation, it’s just that I think myself too awful and sinful a man to share in it.

Thanks for your regressive contribution to the conversation, Doctor Walsh.

 

[BH]

I'll say this. We had to hospitalize mom back in the mid 80's because she was severely depressed. She would also hallucinate she was slitting her wrists and she would not know whether she was really doing it or if it was her mind playing tricks on her. Now that was very bad.

Sheesh, A Church of Christ preacher, from the strictest Church of Christ group--one cup, no sunday school, ect, killed himself back in 2007. When I went to the funeral I suspected he would be eulogized into hell but the preacher talked about all the good he did and even though it will be remembered he killed himself, the preacher was sure he was sick mentally and God was going to consider that when he went before the judgement. If a man with a broken leg will not be blamed for not being able to run a marathon what about a man with a broken brain not thinking rationally? If the one cup Church of Christ can have a heart and a sense of grace of all people why couldn't this guy?

 

[J842P]

So I went and read Matt Walsh's blog post on Williams' suicide because some liberal Christians I hang with were horrified by it.

And I have one thing I'm curious about. Most of the article, of course was insensitive arrogant self-righteousness (which, from what I understand, is this guy's specialty?) and was clinically wrong on every front. But he did have one message hidden in there, "just be sure your admiration for him and hopes for his peace don't give other depressed people ideas." Still, the way he said that was,

Free? I’ve seen a lot of this kind of rhetoric. Robin Williams is “in a better place,” he is “free,” he is “at peace,” he is “smiling down upon us,” he’s “happy.”
This all might seem pleasant enough, but have we stopped to think how it looks and sounds to those who may be contemplating this heinous deed themselves?

And I thought to myself, wait, you're a christian. You _do_ think he's free and at peace now, don't you? Isn't that what Christians really think happens when you die? Soooooo.... still try to get medical help and everything, but, yeah, he probably is free and at peace now, right? Right?

Or did you really just say, "Jesus' message of redemption might seem pleasant enough, BUT... don't tell anyone that because it might make them want to hurry to there"?

Well, at least some Christian sects believe that suicides go straight to hell. So he is not free. He is in constant and eternal torment right now.

 

[dockeen]

Over the course of my life I have seen people go from referring to suicide as "the cowardly way out" to more "clever/cute" references such as "a permanent solution to a temporary problem".

I am not sure this is progress.

 

[Potoooooooo]

FRC VP Peter Sprigg: "Ex-Gay" Torture Should Be Legal Because Robin Williams

http://frcblog.com/2014/08/robin-williams-rehab-and-reorientation/

"If we were to apply the same standards to drug and alcohol rehabilitation that the homosexual activists want to apply to reorientation therapy, why not ban rehab? After all, since some people go to rehab and still suffer relapses afterwards, rehab is clearly 'ineffective.' Robin Williams actually went to rehab, and shortly thereafter took his own life. Does that not clearly indicate that rehab is not only ineffective, but downright harmful? In addition, there are surely people who consume alcohol or use illicit drugs but are still able to function and make productive contributions to society — so there is obviously nothing inherently wrong with alcohol or drugs. Allowing people who struggle with their alcohol or drug use to seek professional help to discontinue them implies there is something wrong with them — thus reinforcing the unfair social stigma which attaches to people who use alcohol and drugs. And surely 'family intervention' to force someone into rehab is a violation of their personal autonomy. In light of all these concerns, how can we allow the fraud of 'rehab' to continue?" - Peter Sprigg, writing for the Family Research Council's blog

 

[Cobalt]

Over the course of my life I have seen people go from referring to suicide as "the cowardly way out" to more "clever/cute" references such as "a permanent solution to a temporary problem".

I am not sure this is progress.

I don't think that depressed people in general are in need of more guilt. Guilt may not be directly causal to their depression but it frequently helps reinforce it. I think that the former phrase is intended to convey a significantly higher amount of guilt than is the former. The former phrase is laden with negative implications of cowardice for contemplating suicide, while the latter is comparatively freer of that burden.

I do think this is progress.

 

[Underseer]

http://frcblog.com/2014/08/robin-williams-rehab-and-reorientation/

"If we were to apply the same standards to drug and alcohol rehabilitation that the homosexual activists want to apply to reorientation therapy, why not ban rehab? After all, since some people go to rehab and still suffer relapses afterwards, rehab is clearly 'ineffective.' Robin Williams actually went to rehab, and shortly thereafter took his own life. Does that not clearly indicate that rehab is not only ineffective, but downright harmful? In addition, there are surely people who consume alcohol or use illicit drugs but are still able to function and make productive contributions to society — so there is obviously nothing inherently wrong with alcohol or drugs. Allowing people who struggle with their alcohol or drug use to seek professional help to discontinue them implies there is something wrong with them — thus reinforcing the unfair social stigma which attaches to people who use alcohol and drugs. And surely 'family intervention' to force someone into rehab is a violation of their personal autonomy. In light of all these concerns, how can we allow the fraud of 'rehab' to continue?" - Peter Sprigg, writing for the Family Research Council's blog

That's a lot of stupid and a lot of evil to pack into a single claim. If I didn't already have so much experience talking to Christians and Muslims, I would be shocked right now.

 

[Perspicuo]

http://frcblog.com/2014/08/robin-williams-rehab-and-reorientation/

"If we were to apply the same standards to drug and alcohol rehabilitation that the homosexual activists want to apply to reorientation therapy, why not ban rehab? After all, since some people go to rehab and still suffer relapses afterwards, rehab is clearly 'ineffective.' Robin Williams actually went to rehab, and shortly thereafter took his own life. Does that not clearly indicate that rehab is not only ineffective, but downright harmful? In addition, there are surely people who consume alcohol or use illicit drugs but are still able to function and make productive contributions to society — so there is obviously nothing inherently wrong with alcohol or drugs. Allowing people who struggle with their alcohol or drug use to seek professional help to discontinue them implies there is something wrong with them — thus reinforcing the unfair social stigma which attaches to people who use alcohol and drugs. And surely 'family intervention' to force someone into rehab is a violation of their personal autonomy. In light of all these concerns, how can we allow the fraud of 'rehab' to continue?" - Peter Sprigg, writing for the Family Research Council's blog

I completely agree. Those infected with The Stupid should not be allowed to go around infecting others. Starting with this jackass right before Bill O'Reilly.

 

[Bomb#20]

http://frcblog.com/2014/08/robin-williams-rehab-and-reorientation/

"If we were to apply the same standards to drug and alcohol rehabilitation that the homosexual activists want to apply to reorientation therapy, why not ban rehab? After all, since some people go to rehab and still suffer relapses afterwards, rehab is clearly 'ineffective.' Robin Williams actually went to rehab, and shortly thereafter took his own life. Does that not clearly indicate that rehab is not only ineffective, but downright harmful? In addition, there are surely people who consume alcohol or use illicit drugs but are still able to function and make productive contributions to society — so there is obviously nothing inherently wrong with alcohol or drugs. Allowing people who struggle with their alcohol or drug use to seek professional help to discontinue them implies there is something wrong with them — thus reinforcing the unfair social stigma which attaches to people who use alcohol and drugs. And surely 'family intervention' to force someone into rehab is a violation of their personal autonomy. In light of all these concerns, how can we allow the fraud of 'rehab' to continue?" - Peter Sprigg, writing for the Family Research Council's blog

That's a lot of stupid and a lot of evil to pack into a single claim. If I didn't already have so much experience talking to Christians and Muslims, I would be shocked right now.

Um, what exactly did he say that's stupid and evil besides "reorientation therapy"? Are you under the impression that he was seriously arguing against rehab? He was trying to refute the conventional arguments against reorientation therapy, using R.A.A.: applying the same arguments to a different problem where those arguments give absurd results. Or are you saying it's stupid and evil for people you disagree with to try to poke holes in criticisms of their position?

If you object to his line of reasoning, the thing to do is explain why rehab is a poor analogy for reorientation therapy. Off the top of my head: (a) sometimes rehab works; (b) people who struggle with substance abuse are struggling with it because it's hurting them; people who struggle with homosexuality are struggling with it because homophobes are hurting them.

 

[Keith&Co.]

If you object to his line of reasoning, the thing to do is explain why rehab is a poor analogy for reorientation therapy.

How about, addicts who go through rehab are still addicts. They've only attempted to stem the behavior, not reverse the underlying problem condition. And they KNOW THIS. It's part of the program.

Homosexuals who go through reorientation are still homosexuals, though they're supposed to have become heterosexuals, because it's supposed to be something one chooses. They struggle because the counselors are lying to them, and they lie to themselves.

One says, 'we can't cure you, but we can keep you from destroying yourself. Maybe'
One says, 'We can cure you. 'Cause God.'