Tattoos

[Jolly_Penguin]

dupe

As a guy who has a wife and a 19 year old daughter that both have huge tits, and if either one of them is wearing a low cut top, I say you, me or anyone else has the right to look as much as we want, tattoos or not

Yup. Perhaps Koy wants them to wear burkas. Then nobody would see said breasts. Who is the worst? The one who looks at other people (including breasts in plain view) or the one who demands they don't and demeans them for doing so. I say the latter. It isn't crime to merely look at people directly in front of you. I wonder if Koy wears a blindfold at the beach.

I guess I am lucky that I have never been into breasts and prefer looking at beautiful eyes. Is that wrong too?

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

How about if your daughter is deliberately not wearing a “low cut top” and doesn’t want someone like Brian reducing her to just her breasts

There's that strawman again. Brian never said he reduces anyone to just a bodypart.

I mean, boys will be boys, right? They have no agency or responsibility of their own. She’s asking for it wearing that necklace that hangs the way all necklaces hang.

Who cares what she is asking for? She too has agency. She doesn't have to make anything visible. And (gasp) she may even like that he looked. Who do you think you are to demand control over what people look at?

And clearly the tattoo is just another way she’s forcing people like Brian to obsess over her tits.

She isn't forcing anything.

Because that’s what she is, after all. A huge pair of tits. You got used to it, after all.

There's your strawman again.

so it can’t be anyone else’s fault

You say that like something bad happened

So, is that it, or did you want to talk about tattoos?

I tried to. Any comment on my three monkeys? You appear to be fixated and obsessed with these boobs.

 

[funcouple]

dupe

As a guy who has a wife and a 19 year old daughter that both have huge tits, and if either one of them is wearing a low cut top, I say you, me or anyone else has the right to look as much as we want, tattoos or not

Yup. Perhaps Koy wants them to wear burkas. Then nobody would see said breasts. Who is the worst? The one who looks at other people (including breasts in plain view) or the one who demands they don't and demeans them for doing so. I say the latter. It isn't crime to merely look at people directly in front of you. I wonder if Koy wears a blindfold at the beach.

I guess I am lucky that I have never been into breasts and prefer looking at beautiful eyes. Is that wrong too?

I am in total agreement here, the choice is up to the displayer and the rest of us can look and comment as we please.

 

[funcouple]

There's that strawman again. Brian never said he reduces anyone to just a bodypart.



Who cares what she is asking for? She too has agency. She doesn't have to make anything visible. And (gasp) she may even like that he looked. Who do you think you are to demand control over what people look at?

And clearly the tattoo is just another way she’s forcing people like Brian to obsess over her tits.

She isn't forcing anything.

Because that’s what she is, after all. A huge pair of tits. You got used to it, after all.

There's your strawman again.

so it can’t be anyone else’s fault

You say that like something bad happened

So, is that it, or did you want to talk about tattoos?

I tried to. Any comment on my three monkeys? You appear to be fixated and obsessed with these boobs.

and I for one do not see anything wrong with that, especially huge ones LOL

 

[Brian63]

I wonder if Koy wears a blindfold at the beach.

Good question. Do his eyes ever wander, even for a split second, when a woman (besides his wife) is standing right in front of him and is wearing clothes that are exposing of her cleavage, that push up on her breasts, are colorful, and she also has attention-drawing jewelry and/or tattoos that are located right there as well?

I guess I am lucky that I have never been into breasts and prefer looking at beautiful eyes. Is that wrong too?

I think every single one of us people on the planet should tape a sign on our foreheads stating explicitly where everyone else's eyes should be focused on at all times whenever we interact. Then any slight attention drift for any minor moment on either person's part should be accused of being pathological and obsessive.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Wow. A master class in gas lighting and sea lioning. And Brian, you were the one that explicitly asked others—TWICE now—to comment about you and your obsession and whether or not such things as tattoos, or jewelry or “revealing clothing” exonerate your “guilt” (all while at the same time affirming that it does exonerate you in a confessional manner).

And since the first time you did it, it resulted in everything being shunted to elsewhere you certainly had zero expectation that the same thing would not happen again.

Yet, unsurprisingly, it’s, once again, somebody else’s fault for your actions.

 

[Brian63]

The same questions have been posed to you numerous times, and you keep ignoring them each time, such as---

I give lists of other attributes that I admire, have affinity for, even attraction for in various people but that does not mean that I think those people's entire self worth is reducible to those attributes. So why out of the 1,000 or so attributes that I enjoy in various people do you pick out #326 (breast size) and say that I am reducing them to "just a pair of tits?" What about all the other 999 attributes that I like about people? Why are you so loud about #326 and stunningly silent about the rest?




Suppose a woman mentions that she finds beards on a guy attractive, moreso than completely shaved necks. Would you then attribute to her the positions that:

She thinks guys are "just a piece of hair" or that she thinks neck hair is "the most important wonderful things in all the land?" Or would you recognize there is a dramatic difference in degrees and kinds between those statements? Perhaps you were being a bit excessive and hyperbolic, and mischaracterizing what her actual view is?

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Yet, unsurprisingly, it’s, once again, somebody else’s fault for your actions.

And yet Koy has no agency over his higher than thou preaching and virtue signalling to Brian, who merely asked an innocent and self-criticizing question, nor does Koy have any agency over the strawmen accusations casually and repeatedly blared out.... Nothing to see here folks. Koy has nothing to do with the thread becoming combative and getting moderated.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Brian, in that post--the second time you've posted the exact same thing that got booted before--you aren't admiring someone's tattoo; you are saying that the tattoo (just like jewelry or particular clothing) gives you "more license" to stare at their breasts and further that your inability to control yourself is their fault. The tatoo is your excuse for staring, not that you are admiring the tattoo or are really into her tattoo.

You couldn't give a flying fuck about the tattoo; it's her breasts that you are talking about and how it's not your fault and why should you feel guilty etc., etc., etc.

It is exactly the same argument that rape apologists and rapists use; that she was asking for it and her fault for dressing that way or doing things to you by wearing certain jewelry a certain way, or getting a tattoo "there," forcing you--the helpless one--to give into your guilty obsession. You even start your post acknowledging that you're going into "dangerous" territory and stating outright that you have this obsession "more so than most men" and how you have to go so far as to speak to yourself--in your head--to force yourself to look away, to force yourself to look anywhere else, even her eyes, like that's a completely foreign concept to you.

The fact that you can't see any of this--particularly after we ALREADY did this creepy dance--and are continuing to try to make yourself out to be the victim of some innocent post when NONE OF THIS SHIT has anything to do with tattoos is all on you.

YOU invited people to address YOUR obsession; to address YOUR questions and YOUR argument that it's not your fault and who could blame you and really, you feel guilty but you shouldn't, right?

Don't piss and moan when someone answers the questions you ask.

 

[Brian63]

The same questions have been posed to you numerous times, and you keep ignoring them each time, such as---

I give lists of other attributes that I admire, have affinity for, even attraction for in various people but that does not mean that I think those people's entire self worth is reducible to those attributes. So why out of the 1,000 or so attributes that I enjoy in various people do you pick out #326 (breast size) and say that I am reducing them to "just a pair of tits?" What about all the other 999 attributes that I like about people? Why are you so loud about #326 and stunningly silent about the rest?




Suppose a woman mentions that she finds beards on a guy attractive, moreso than completely shaved necks. Would you then attribute to her the positions that:

She thinks guys are "just a piece of hair" or that she thinks neck hair is "the most important wonderful things in all the land?" Or would you recognize there is a dramatic difference in degrees and kinds between those statements? Perhaps you were being a bit excessive and hyperbolic, and mischaracterizing what her actual view is?

 

[Brian63]

Those questions just above are reposted because you completely ignore them each time before. No attempt at a response, no acknowledgement that the questions even exist. You just skip them entirely, again and again.

Why do you keep doing that? There seems something more than just the odd behavior from you. Something deeper seems to be going on inside. I do not know what secrets you are hiding on the subject. Please see a counselor though. They can help a lot.

 

[funcouple]

from a woman's point of view, if we are showing ample cleavage, we probably don't have an issue with you guys looking.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Those questions just above are reposted because you completely ignore them each time before. No attempt at a response, no acknowledgement that the questions even exist. You just skip them entirely, again and again.

Why do you keep doing that? There seems something more than just the odd behavior from you. Something deeper seems to be going on inside. I do not know what secrets you are hiding on the subject. Please see a counselor though. They can help a lot.

How cute. You keep trying to turn your shit around like no one would notice.

"Those questions," of course, are irrelevant because none of them are about using a tattoo or a necklace or particular clothing as an excuse to stare at--and exonerate your confessed guilt over staring at--women's breasts. Nor do any of them have anything to do with the fact that you were literally blaming the women for YOUR inability to stop yourself from staring at their breasts; for YOUR lack of self-control.

It's your confessional, Brian and you did it twice, after already going through this exact excoriation, so I'd be extremely circumspect about throwing around the idea of seeing a counselor.

 

[funcouple]

is it so bad that some of us guys just like to the looks a woman's tits?

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

is it so bad that some of us guys just like to the looks a woman's tits?

Still the wrong question. The right question is, is it so bad to blame a woman for your lack of self-control, which is what Brian's confession was all about? Because if you say, "no," then it means a rapist is perfectly justified in stating that it was the woman's fault for dressing that way (or wearing that necklace that hung down low there, or getting that tattoo there, or any other bullshit rationalization that attempts to exonerate personal responsibility/agency).

So, in your alleged case, if your wife were raped and the rapist said, "It was her fault for having large breasts on display like that," you'd have to agree with him and not press charges.

So, you tell us, is that bad?

 

[funcouple]

is it so bad that some of us guys just like to the looks a woman's tits?

Still the wrong question. The right question is, is it so bad to blame a woman for your lack of self-control, which is what Brian's confession was all about? Because if you say, "no," then it means a rapist is perfectly justified in stating that it was the woman's fault for dressing that way (or wearing that necklace that hung down low there, or getting that tattoo there, or any other bullshit rationalization that attempts to exonerate personal responsibility/agency).

So, in your alleged case, if your wife were raped and the rapist said, "It was her fault for having large breasts on display like that," you'd have to agree with him and not press charges.

So, you tell us, is that bad?

we all are responsible for our own actions. as long as you brought up my wife's tits, let's us her as our example...she always wears low cut tops and if guys look at her cleavage, she or me should have no place to bitch. At the same time the guys who are looking shouldn't blame her for their love for big tits. Even comments are fair game. However, if a guy goes for a handful (which some have), then that (technically is a crime).

 

[funcouple]

OK here is a completely different way of looking at it...my buddy and I are here having a few beers and watching porn. We are both completely naked and fully exposed to each other and doing our things. Now we both can look and comment as much as we want but crossing the line with hands on (without the others agreement) would be wrong and out of line.

 

[Playball40]

OK here is a completely different way of looking at it...my buddy and I are here having a few beers and watching porn. We are both completely naked and fully exposed to each other and doing our things. Now we both can look and comment as much as we want but crossing the line with hands on (without the others agreement) would be wrong and out of line.

Oh bullshit. Guys are so freaked about glancing at a strange man's penis they automatically use urinals on opposite sides of the room.

 

[funcouple]

OK here is a completely different way of looking at it...my buddy and I are here having a few beers and watching porn. We it is a whole different level of being comfortable with another guy are both completely naked and fully exposed to each other and doing our things. Now we both can look and comment as much as we want but crossing the line with hands on (without the others agreement) would be wrong and out of line.

Oh bullshit. Guys are so freaked about glancing at a strange man's penis they automatically use urinals on opposite sides of the room.

yea you are right, I would never watch another guy when he is taking a piss. try going to the gym and notice who is checking you out. it is a whole new level of being comfortable with another guy when you are jacking off together. not for everyone for sure. And I will be bold enough to admit that all the time of doing it I have never been able to "not look" when the other guy is getting ready to unload.

 

[Brian63]

"Those questions," of course, are irrelevant because none of them are about using a tattoo or a necklace or particular clothing as an excuse to stare at--and exonerate your confessed guilt over staring at--women's breasts.

You are wrong. They are relevant questions because you had earlier accused me of seeing women as "just a pair of tits." Asked about your basis for that accusation, you then quoted me as saying things which did not at all suggest that I see women as "just a pair of tits." I enjoy breasts on women, but that does not mean I think their value as human beings is reduced to those. There are numerous other qualities of men and women both that I enjoy and admire and find attractive, but you do not make the same accusation---that I think those people are just that characteristic---as you do about this one other characteristic. You scream and shout a lot on characteristic #326, but are completely quiet about the other 999 attributes that I find appealing and even attractive about various people.


When I say that I occasionally get distracted by them, you say that I am "staring at" them. So right off the bat, you are not capable of communicating responsibly or effectively. Until you describe our positions accurately, there is no worth in discussing the relative merits of our positions. You repeatedly argue against strawmen, but whether ignorantly or intentionally I do not know. The point still stands though that this topic is not one that you are able or interested in having a civil discussion about, and instead will continually turn into a foodfight. I will not take that bait.

What I will ask is that you simply stop opening up this thread, stop reading the posts in this thread, stop responding to any posts in this thread. Just walk away from this thread entirely and do not click on any links to any posts in it. Let others who can engage in a more civil conversation about the topic do so. Can you practice that level of self control? Do you think you should not have to, because the mere fact that this thread is in public view gives you license to make a post in it? That again would be ironic...

The advice remains that you seek a personal counselor for your issues on this topic. You typically and frequently engage in a lot of intense flamewars across this forum, but this particular one seems to be have hit a new note for you too. This topic is different for you even from those. There is something else going on there, and you need to stop bottling up your anger. If you are going to release it, speak to someone about it thoroughly, even if privately, to help. That will be better for you than what this thread has become.