Team Biden: Neocon Light?

[funinspace]

I even gave money for Biden's election, and yes he is a 1,000 times better than FFvC. However, even though I wouldn't use the word 'progressive' as my political label, this article is a decent summery of my brewing frustration of getting yet another Democratic President that seems to be heading down the Neocon light path. FFvC pooched our deal with Iran every way he could. Biden is demanding that Iran take the first steps towards a return to the deal. WTF? We bombed yet again in Syria where we have no legal bases to have any military operations, and we lecture China on a "rules-based order that maintains global stability"? And why would Biden nominate Victoria Nuland as undersecretary of state for political affairs. A few months in, and I'm unimpressed...

https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2021/03/...m-a-centrist-democrat-they-make-him-a-neocon/

My own initial analysis of Biden’s foreign policy outlook pinned him as a classical Democrat, but his first moves put him further and well beyond the center to the right than what generally defines a classical foreign policy Democrat.

Humanitarian reasons as a justification for the use of force is what separates hawkish centrist Democrats from the neocons on the right. And that’s not a small difference. For neocons, spreading democracy and regime change suffices. But that’s not the case for Democrats. The Biden Administration knows this very well. That’s why what counts as “humanitarian” in Syria is key for the Biden Administration and that’s why “humanitarian” is getting a very ugly, tortured reading in the first State Department statements. This week the State Department’s Spokesperson Ned Price tweeted that the State Department commemorates the one year anniversary of the death of 33 Turkish soldiers who “lost their lives protecting innocent Syrian civilians in Idlib from the brutality of the Assad regime and its Russian and Iranian backers”.

A refresher on Nuland:
https://asiatimes.com/2021/03/bidens-firing-squad-stands-in-a-circle/

As I wrote in a March 19 commentary (“Life after death for the neoconservatives”), the nomination of neo-conservative Victoria Nuland as undersecretary of state for political affairs will be read in Moscow as well as European capitals as a declaration of intent for regime change in Russia. Ms. Nuland was prominently associated with America’s 2014 involvement in the Maidan coup in Ukraine, which Nuland and others in the US security establishment hoped would be repeated in Moscow.

 

[barbos]

You were expecting some kind of de-neoconing of US foreign policies with Biden? Why?
Obama did not do it, Trump did not do it, why would Biden be able to do that?
Neocons have been running things since before the end of Cold War without any interruption.
Trump did not invent "America First", neocons did.
And yes, Germany/France has already expressed their disappointment with Biden.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I'll say that Biden has a ton of fixing to do. Trump left Biden with a mountain of crap to clean up that can't just be undone. I suppose the good news is North Korea was unhappy with how the Biden Admin handwaved the cruise missile test.

Regarding "America First", Trump wasn't "America First". Yes, it is what he said, but what it mean was "Only America", and pulling America from allies.

Trump was instrumental to giving Syria to Russia. Granted, Russia was always getting most of its way in the Syrian situation, but Trump completely failed and provided America and American allies (including the Syria Kurds) no benefits for just leaving.

Biden is also looking at restarting the Refugee programs in the US, though Trump left those in tatters as well. It'll be hard to get a real feel on Biden's foreign policy for a bit as he tries to pivot the US from the very early 20th century mindset back to the 21st century.

 

[funinspace]

You were expecting some kind of de-neoconing of US foreign policies with Biden? Why?
Obama did not do it, Trump did not do it, why would Biden be able to do that?

Well, I had been holding onto a small hope as Biden was purportedly against Obama's Afghan surge, but I'm certainly not shocked...

Neocons have been running things since before the end of Cold War without any interruption.
Trump did not invent "America First", neocons did.
And yes, Germany/France has already expressed their disappointment with Biden.

Yeah, we are back at pissing at Germany for not bowing to America First BS...

 

[funinspace]

I'll say that Biden has a ton of fixing to do.

Absolutely true. But demanding that Iran take the first steps back towards getting back within JCPOA is just stupid. There is no "ton of fixing" required. Just a few clear steps back from Clownstick's Executive actions against Iran, to show a good faith effort to fix what we (the US) fucked up.

Trump left Biden with a mountain of crap to clean up that can't just be undone. I suppose the good news is North Korea was unhappy with how the Biden Admin handwaved the cruise missile test.

True to both...

Trump was instrumental to giving Syria to Russia. Granted, Russia was always getting most of its way in the Syrian situation, but Trump completely failed and provided America and American allies (including the Syria Kurds) no benefits for just leaving.

Syria was never 'ours' to give away. We never belonged there. But bombing there, to show we are still tough and that we don't have to live within a 'rules based order', and that this is just a requirement for other countries?

Biden is also looking at restarting the Refugee programs in the US, though Trump left those in tatters as well. It'll be hard to get a real feel on Biden's foreign policy for a bit as he tries to pivot the US from the very early 20th century mindset back to the 21st century.

Yes it will. But again Biden could have easily already taken a few steps back from Clownstick's Executive BS against lots of countries like Iran and China, never mind pissing on our ally Germany threatening again unilateral US sanctions.

 

[TomC]

Absolutely true. But demanding that Iran take the first steps back towards getting back within JCPOA is just stupid. There is no "ton of fixing" required. Just a few clear steps back from Clownstick's Executive actions against Iran, to show a good faith effort to fix what we (the US) fucked up.

Yeah, I'm with you here.

Biden was never my idea of a good time, he's too old and too old school. I was greatly disappointed that the Democrats couldn't come up with anything better.

I suppose it was naive of me to hope that Biden could capitalize on his history of helping make peace with Iran better than he seems to be doing. I realize he doesn't have a magic wand to get rid of the disaster that was Trump and the Republicans on the issue of Iran.

Maybe he'll do better in his next 100 days. I certainly hope so.
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Absolutely true. But demanding that Iran take the first steps back towards getting back within JCPOA is just stupid. There is no "ton of fixing" required. Just a few clear steps back from Clownstick's Executive actions against Iran, to show a good faith effort to fix what we (the US) fucked up.

Is it as simple as turning on the faucet with Iran and China. Firstly, we aren't getting the Iranian agreement back. Trump disintegrated it. Which puts the US in a bad position, because it becomes extraordinarily hard to get anywhere with Iran now. Why should they care what we say at this point? Trump torched it, and it can't be recovered.

China isn't quite as bad, but still Trump has dragged American diplomacy through manure, and Biden can't just spray it with Axe Body Spray and things go back to what they were. There are legit complaints with China and IP, but without stability, dealing with these issues becomes even harder than it was. Biden needs to lift the ridiculous restrictions on Chinese trade, however, I don't think diplomatically it is that "simple".

Yes, I agree Syria wasn't "ours", but we certainly had some semblance of a vested interest in it.

 

[J842P]

Trump was instrumental to giving Syria to Russia.

 

[Patooka]

Trump was instrumental to giving Syria to Russia.

He's not wrong:

 

[Trausti]

Trump was instrumental to giving Syria to Russia.

He's not wrong:

If you pretend the Syrian Civil War didn’t start in 2011, then yeah.

 

[funinspace]

Absolutely true. But demanding that Iran take the first steps back towards getting back within JCPOA is just stupid. There is no "ton of fixing" required. Just a few clear steps back from Clownstick's Executive actions against Iran, to show a good faith effort to fix what we (the US) fucked up.

Is it as simple as turning on the faucet with Iran and China. Firstly, we aren't getting the Iranian agreement back. Trump disintegrated it. Which puts the US in a bad position, because it becomes extraordinarily hard to get anywhere with Iran now. Why should they care what we say at this point? Trump torched it, and it can't be recovered.

How is it broke. Iran has suggested a couple times that they are interested in returning to the agreement if the US shows good faith. The P5+1 seems interested. So I don't get your point...

China isn't quite as bad, but still Trump has dragged American diplomacy through manure, and Biden can't just spray it with Axe Body Spray and things go back to what they were. There are legit complaints with China and IP, but without stability, dealing with these issues becomes even harder than it was. Biden needs to lift the ridiculous restrictions on Chinese trade, however, I don't think diplomatically it is that "simple".

Here's a crazy ass idea. How about the Biden Administration, end the Clownstick executive orders that worked overtime to sanction anyone who tried to buy Iranian oil. China is happy; Iran is happy, and both get to see a really fucking green olive branch. And the fuckwit rednecks might even see lower gasoline prices...

Yes, I agree Syria wasn't "ours", but we certainly had some semblance of a vested interest in it.

Uh huh...

 

[barbos]

Trump was instrumental to giving Syria to Russia.

Yeah, no less instrumental than Obama who let neocons to try to regime change Assad with the help from ISIS.
US presidents are mostly figure heads, they don't have original thoughts, especially when it comes to foreign policy. They rely on "experts" and foreign policy "experts" are all neocons.

 

[J842P]

Trump was instrumental to giving Syria to Russia.

Yeah, no less instrumental than Obama who let neocons to try to regime change Assad with the help from ISIS.
US presidents are mostly figure heads, they don't have original thoughts, especially when it comes to foreign policy. They rely on "experts" and foreign policy "experts" are all neocons.

True. It's called "the Blob".

 

[ZiprHead]

So we have one thread calling Biden a neocon and another calling him a Bernie socialist. Decisions, decisions...

 

[funinspace]

So we have one thread calling Biden a neocon and another calling him a Bernie socialist. Decisions, decisions...

I'm sorry, but I didn't get the memo...I thought this forum was full of progressives,. Yet what I saw of the thread titles, it seemed to be rather vacant on the foreign policy front...

 

[barbos]

So we have one thread calling Biden a neocon and another calling him a Bernie socialist. Decisions, decisions...

It does not have to be one or the other. But I called him a figure head.

 

[fromderinside]

Biden has been a moderate democrat with bill making and passing skills since he entered politics. He's delegating now and using FDR as his guide. He's not going to pack the court. He believes too much in tradition and precedent. I'm not even sure he would risk setting filibuster precedent to get his agenda through even with a Republican party bent on tearing down everything done since 1912.

 

[barbos]

Biden has been a moderate democrat with bill making and passing skills since he entered politics. He's delegating now and using FDR as his guide. He's not going to pack the court. He believes too much in tradition and precedent. I'm not even sure he would risk setting filibuster precedent to get his agenda through even with a Republican party bent on tearing down everything done since 1912.

This is all true but not relevant to the thread which is about foreign policy.

 

[fromderinside]

This is all true but not relevant to the thread which is about foreign policy.

Characterization of a person in terms of tendencies works for evaluating diplomatic instincts as well. All you need do is put foreign policy in place of legislation. Biden is a cautious person who works everything in term of principles and experience. He takes his time putting in place policy concentrating on hewing to long held American diplomatic positions based on principle and values. He has a very strong sense of history and American honor.

 

[barbos]

This is all true but not relevant to the thread which is about foreign policy.

Characterization of a person in terms of tendencies works for evaluating diplomatic instincts as well. All you need do is put foreign policy in place of legislation. Biden is a cautious person who works everything in term of principles and experience. He takes his time putting in place policy concentrating on hewing to long held American diplomatic positions based on principle and values. He has a very strong sense of history and American honor.

He nominated Nuland ("Fuck the EU" girl) That's all you need to know about his diplomatic instincts.