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Texas in Crisis

bilby

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An awful lot of the people in there jumped in themselves by having children they weren't financially prepared for.

A lot of people were dragged there by the people you WOULD be describing if not for the fact that they were already inside the gravity well anyway.

A lot of people are in the gravity well because this might describe their parents.

It doesn't matter what put someone there. The problem is the fact that once they are inside, they can never leave, and neither can their children.

Yeah, assigning blame is utterly unproductive. If it makes people like Loren feel better, then let's accept ad argumentum that people having children that they weren't financially prepared for is the major cause of poverty. Now, WTF do we do to fix that poverty? Absent a time machine or a program of genocide, we can't eliminate the children they (perhaps unwisely) had.

So how do we fix this issue, for which we have all now had our fill of smug blame assigning?
 

Jarhyn

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An awful lot of the people in there jumped in themselves by having children they weren't financially prepared for.

A lot of people were dragged there by the people you WOULD be describing if not for the fact that they were already inside the gravity well anyway.

A lot of people are in the gravity well because this might describe their parents.

It doesn't matter what put someone there. The problem is the fact that once they are inside, they can never leave, and neither can their children.

Yeah, assigning blame is utterly unproductive. If it makes people like Loren feel better, then let's accept ad argumentum that people having children that they weren't financially prepared for is the major cause of poverty. Now, WTF do we do to fix that poverty? Absent a time machine or a program of genocide, we can't eliminate the children they (perhaps unwisely) had.

So how do we fix this issue, for which we have all now had our fill of smug blame assigning?

By doing all necessary spending to provide a high quality public education for as long as they can absorb it.
 

bilby

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Yeah, assigning blame is utterly unproductive. If it makes people like Loren feel better, then let's accept ad argumentum that people having children that they weren't financially prepared for is the major cause of poverty. Now, WTF do we do to fix that poverty? Absent a time machine or a program of genocide, we can't eliminate the children they (perhaps unwisely) had.

So how do we fix this issue, for which we have all now had our fill of smug blame assigning?

By doing all necessary spending to provide a high quality public education for as long as they can absorb it.

That would be a start.
 

jab

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Good, that is true except for the distant future.



Not good. The Texan administration is not bent on making nuclear weapons (the US already makes them), and certainly not on killing civilians with them (as Islamic terrorists would). Moreover, Texas does not have a bad track record of nuclear safety.

In addition to that, you have to consider that if it's not nuclear energy, it will be some other kind of energy - which data shows is more polluting and more dangerous.


Deepak said:
And, I'm sure, some folks might disagree with the assessment. In either case, the specifics of the energy mix we use in the future is not the concern of this thread - it's the particular incompetence of Texas, their government, and the people who have voting power to elect that government. So are you trying to address my point, or are you trying to straw man me?
You're the one not addressing some of the points I've been making. Two of them are:

1. Texas does not have a bad track record of nuclear safety.
2. Nuclear energy is better than the alternatives, in terms of safety and environmental impact. There is no particular reason to think that that will change in Texas. One can tell that just by looking at the record in Texas.

The record in Texas is that their free market approach was successfully and safely generating wind energy & gas energy, until suddenly it bigly wasn't.
 

Loren Pechtel

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An awful lot of the people in there jumped in themselves by having children they weren't financially prepared for.

People find meaning and purpose in the darnedest places. Some find it in financial success and tend to have fewer kids. When that's not a viable option there's just family. Women can always have kids. When men can't make enough to benefit the family they leave. I believe anyone in a similar situation would act in the same way. There needs to be a minimum wage increase that provides enough for every family to have some savings. That's the heart of what it takes to function as a capitalist society. If that's too big a burden for businesses then the government needs to step in to make up the difference. It's an endemic problem and that's the only way to fix it.

Set it that high and you'll find a lot of people have no hope whatsoever of getting a job.
 

Loren Pechtel

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An awful lot of the people in there jumped in themselves by having children they weren't financially prepared for.

A lot of people were dragged there by the people you WOULD be describing if not for the fact that they were already inside the gravity well anyway.

A lot of people are in the gravity well because this might describe their parents.

It doesn't matter what put someone there. The problem is the fact that once they are inside, they can never leave, and neither can their children.

Yeah, assigning blame is utterly unproductive. If it makes people like Loren feel better, then let's accept ad argumentum that people having children that they weren't financially prepared for is the major cause of poverty. Now, WTF do we do to fix that poverty? Absent a time machine or a program of genocide, we can't eliminate the children they (perhaps unwisely) had.

So how do we fix this issue, for which we have all now had our fill of smug blame assigning?

It's already been demonstrated that free long term contraception takes a big bite out of new people being sucked in. Since it's a prescribed thing there's no overuse problem from making it free. Do so and then start looking for more ways to fix things.
 

TomC

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The record in Texas is that their free market approach was successfully and safely generating wind energy & gas energy, until suddenly it bigly wasn't.

This is rather why I'm so leery of nuclear power.

As long as everything is good, it's clean.
Except for the waste disposal issues.

But then there's human nature. From all out war to creeping complacency, nuclear power plants have the capacity to produce huge human disasters.

Imagine a war, just a conventional modern war, with nuclear plants as prime targets. Or a nuclear power plant in a third world country, like in Africa or South America, subject to the vicissitudes of political turmoil.

Or one in The Republic of Texas, newly freed from the burden of U.S. citizenship and the onerous regulations that entails. As long as the rich connected folks can jet off to Mexico, why would the Texan elite care about the disastrous circumstances the little people have to live with?

Why not just take the campaign donations, believe what you're told, and assume that somebody else will deal with the problem?
If there ever is one?
Tom
 

Swammerdami

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Duh! A company that doesn't pass on market rates to customers at present is going to be bleeding heavily.

Not every municipality or customer may choose who they pay for electricity. Some people only have one option. Sometimes that option is the usurous one.

I would hazard that for some in this situation, the choice was "accept usury or have no heat/light."


Tough. The customer either explicitly clicked an 'I Agree' box, or implicitly agreed to the Corporation's stipulations. What would you have Commissar Biden do? Squeeze the corporation and its billionaire stockholders out of their Holy Profit? Why don't you just go back to North Korea, Yemen, Denmark or some other place that will uphold your communist ideals?

Anyway, I read that Governor Abbott intends to propose New Laws, forbidding any recurrence of this calamity! AOC and Hillary are selling girl-scout cookies, while Republican Abbott steps up to the plate and hits a home run! With innovative bold leadership like that, the whines and whinges of Antifa, Green New Deal, NAACP and other America-haters will soon be forgotten.
 

bilby

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The record in Texas is that their free market approach was successfully and safely generating wind energy & gas energy, until suddenly it bigly wasn't.

This is rather why I'm so leery of nuclear power.

As long as everything is good, it's clean.
Except for the waste disposal issues.
The only waste disposal issues are political - anti nuclear protestors don't want a solution, because it would take away their favourite talking point. But the fact is, we already solved all the problems, and have a variety of excellent options to pick from.

Every way of generating electricity has a waste problem. Only nuclear fission has solved that problem.

What we have been doing for sixty years has never hurt anyone in the slightest way; So exactly what is the "problem"?
But then there's human nature. From all out war to creeping complacency, nuclear power plants have the capacity to produce huge human disasters.
Nah. Nuclear power has the capacity to produce run of the mill "disasters", of the kind that happen regularly in other industries.

The worst possible result from a nuclear plant incident would be another Chernobyl. It's basically physically impossible for a power plant to fail worse than that.
Imagine a war, just a conventional modern war, with nuclear plants as prime targets. Or a nuclear power plant in a third world country, like in Africa or South America, subject to the vicissitudes of political turmoil.

Or one in The Republic of Texas, newly freed from the burden of U.S. citizenship and the onerous regulations that entails. As long as the rich connected folks can jet off to Mexico, why would the Texan elite care about the disastrous circumstances the little people have to live with?
A nuclear power plant is basically bombproof by design. They're shit targets in war; Hard to damage, and not particularly harmful to your enemy if you do manage to hurt them.

It's much easier and more effective to go after switch yards and transformers if you want to damage an enemy power grid.
Why not just take the campaign donations, believe what you're told, and assume that somebody else will deal with the problem?
If there ever is one?
Tom

Or you could stop listening to anti nuclear propaganda, and find out for yourself how absurd these hypothetical disaster scenarios really are.
 

Angra Mainyu

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Good, that is true except for the distant future.



Not good. The Texan administration is not bent on making nuclear weapons (the US already makes them), and certainly not on killing civilians with them (as Islamic terrorists would). Moreover, Texas does not have a bad track record of nuclear safety.

In addition to that, you have to consider that if it's not nuclear energy, it will be some other kind of energy - which data shows is more polluting and more dangerous.


Deepak said:
And, I'm sure, some folks might disagree with the assessment. In either case, the specifics of the energy mix we use in the future is not the concern of this thread - it's the particular incompetence of Texas, their government, and the people who have voting power to elect that government. So are you trying to address my point, or are you trying to straw man me?
You're the one not addressing some of the points I've been making. Two of them are:

1. Texas does not have a bad track record of nuclear safety.
2. Nuclear energy is better than the alternatives, in terms of safety and environmental impact. There is no particular reason to think that that will change in Texas. One can tell that just by looking at the record in Texas.

The record in Texas is that their free market approach was successfully and safely generating wind energy & gas energy, until suddenly it bigly wasn't.
First, I doubt that that was the record, but even if it was, that does not suggest that it would be a good idea ignore the track record on nuclear safety, as that is to ignore a significant piece of evidence.

Second. as pointed out repeatedly, nuclear energy is overall safer than anything else. So, in order to rationally oppose nuclear in Texas because of safety concerns, one would need good reasons to think that in Texas, nuclear is probably more dangerous than other forms of energy. And there seems to be no good reason to think that.

Third, in the current energy crisis, one reactor was shut down by an automated safety procedure, and that was it. That, by the way, is because nuclear in Texas is strictly regulated, rather than following a free market approach. That happens in all of the US, by the way. In the case of Texas, it's an Agreement State, but the US NRC retains juristidiction.

In other words, if you oppose nuclear in Texas, in effect you oppose an energy industry that is under federal regulations and oversight. Alternatives perhaps would not be.

All that said, arguably nuclear is overly regulated, for the reasons bilby has been explaining in several threads, but if you want regulations instead of (allegedly) free market, then opposing nuclear will get just the opposite of what you want.
 

Angra Mainyu

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TomC said:
This is rather why I'm so leery of nuclear power.

As long as everything is good, it's clean.

Except for the waste disposal issues.

But then there's human nature. From all out war to creeping complacency, nuclear power plants have the capacity to produce huge human disasters.
And yet, if you take a look at the track record, nuclear energy is still safer and cleaner solar, for example. And a lot more than gas. And far, far more than coal.



TomC said:
Imagine a war, just a conventional modern war, with nuclear plants as prime targets.

There is no realistic scenario in which any country or group of countries can launch a conventional war against America and hit Texas's power stations, nuclear or otherwise.

But if you're talking about other places look at the rest of the world, what has happened is refineries and generally the oil industry being targeted, causing serious environmental disasters. Would it be worse with nuclear? You'd have to consider it on a case by case basis, but so far, what we see historically is that nuclear remains much safer than fossil fuels, and also everything else (except wind, which is close), and also, take a look at bilby's points regarding safety.

TomC said:
Or a nuclear power plant in a third world country, like in Africa or South America, subject to the vicissitudes of political turmoil.
We can do much better than imagine it: we can take a look at actual examples, and again we see no safety problems with the nuclear power stations in South America or Africa. The problem is, recently, anti-nuclear activism. But that is not a safety problem. It's a political/ideological problem.
 

Loren Pechtel

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Duh! A company that doesn't pass on market rates to customers at present is going to be bleeding heavily.

Not every municipality or customer may choose who they pay for electricity. Some people only have one option. Sometimes that option is the usurous one.

I would hazard that for some in this situation, the choice was "accept usury or have no heat/light."


Tough. The customer either explicitly clicked an 'I Agree' box, or implicitly agreed to the Corporation's stipulations. What would you have Commissar Biden do? Squeeze the corporation and its billionaire stockholders out of their Holy Profit? Why don't you just go back to North Korea, Yemen, Denmark or some other place that will uphold your communist ideals?

Anyway, I read that Governor Abbott intends to propose New Laws, forbidding any recurrence of this calamity! AOC and Hillary are selling girl-scout cookies, while Republican Abbott steps up to the plate and hits a home run! With innovative bold leadership like that, the whines and whinges of Antifa, Green New Deal, NAACP and other America-haters will soon be forgotten.


Actually, as more details come out I've come to change my mind on this--the government is the real culprit here. They told the utilities to raise the spot price to the ceiling in an effort to curb demand. The Griddy mess wouldn't be nearly as bad without that.
 

Loren Pechtel

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The record in Texas is that their free market approach was successfully and safely generating wind energy & gas energy, until suddenly it bigly wasn't.

This is rather why I'm so leery of nuclear power.

As long as everything is good, it's clean.
Except for the waste disposal issues.

Lets look a bit more at those "waste disposal issues".

In the left corner we have a terawatt of coal power. In the right corner we have a terawatt of nuclear power. Both obviously produce waste.

In the left corner we dig a hole to store a year's worth of the fly ash. The stuff is rather toxic, it needs to be sealed against water intrusion.

In the right corner we dig a hole to store the waste. Again, we seal it to keep it out of the environment. To be fair we make the same hole as we did for the coal.

A year goes by. The left hole fills up. The right hole, however--the spent fuel comes out of the reactor and goes to the reprocessor. Unused fuel (only about 10% has actually been used) goes back to the reactor. Commercially useful isotopes are extracted. That which is neither of these goes into the hole.

Next year, we need to dig a new hole for the coal plant. The nuke plant's hole has plenty of space.

.....

10,000 years from now we have 10,000 holes for the coal plant. The nuke plant's hole has finally filled up.

10,001 years--we dig yet another hole for the coal. On the nuke side, however, we simply take out the first batch as it is no hotter than natural background radiation. Maybe it's got something useful in it, if not it can go in the regular trash at this point--it's pretty much devoid of the heavy metals that are a problem with the fly ash.

......

100,000 years from now we have 100,000 holes for the coal plant, the nuke plant continues to function with just it's original hole.

Or lets look at the radiation the plants emit.

Go to the fence of the coal plant, record the radiation release. Now go to the nuke plant and replay those readings--the alarms go off, they shut down the plant and look for what's broken and leaking hot stuff.

(Or, consider the Palo Verde nuclear plant in Arizona. They had to apply for a waiver on the normal rules for how hot their waste water could be as it was inherently impossible for them to meet the standard. The problem is the reactor cooling water is cleaned-up sewer water and the water coming into the plant doesn't meet the standards for how hot it can be going out. The problem is patients undergoing various nuclear medicine procedures and pissing out the results. The doctors capture the really hot stuff (radioiodine treatment for thyroid cancer) but most of it just goes down the toilet. Both my wife and I have had Tc-99M imaging studies, absolutely zero efforts to contain the leftover radioactivity other than she got a card from the lab as we were doing an international flight the next day--and she was hot enough to set off two radiation alarms in Shanghai/PuDong.)
 

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I like this about Ted Cruz, the Senator from Cancun:

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "I don’t care what Cruz said at CPAC, but I do care that it appears Texas was just a layover stop for him between Cancun and Orlando to drop a pack of water into someone’s trunk and abandon his constituents again as they get slammed with $16,000 electrical bills." / Twitter

"Senator from Cancun"?

There is a bit of Congressional courtesy, and that is referring to fellow members as a colleague or whatever from their state. This has obvious extensions, like Joe Biden as the Senator from Amtrak.
 

lpetrich

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Texas’s Winter Storm Death Toll Likely Four Times Higher Than Reported
The state’s tally currently stands at 151 deaths. But by looking at how many more people died during and immediately after the storm than would have been expected — an established method that has been used to count the full toll of other disasters — we estimate that 700 people were killed by the storm during the week with the worst power outages.
 

Harry Bosch

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Texas’s Winter Storm Death Toll Likely Four Times Higher Than Reported
The state’s tally currently stands at 151 deaths. But by looking at how many more people died during and immediately after the storm than would have been expected — an established method that has been used to count the full toll of other disasters — we estimate that 700 people were killed by the storm during the week with the worst power outages.

The companies that made the windmills should be shamed...
 

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Texas’s Winter Storm Death Toll Likely Four Times Higher Than Reported
The state’s tally currently stands at 151 deaths. But by looking at how many more people died during and immediately after the storm than would have been expected — an established method that has been used to count the full toll of other disasters — we estimate that 700 people were killed by the storm during the week with the worst power outages.

The companies that made the windmills should be shamed...

What did they do wrong?
 

laughing dog

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Tough. The customer either explicitly clicked an 'I Agree' box, or implicitly agreed to the Corporation's stipulations. What would you have Commissar Biden do? Squeeze the corporation and its billionaire stockholders out of their Holy Profit? Why don't you just go back to North Korea, Yemen, Denmark or some other place that will uphold your communist ideals?

Anyway, I read that Governor Abbott intends to propose New Laws, forbidding any recurrence of this calamity! AOC and Hillary are selling girl-scout cookies, while Republican Abbott steps up to the plate and hits a home run! With innovative bold leadership like that, the whines and whinges of Antifa, Green New Deal, NAACP and other America-haters will soon be forgotten.

Actually, as more details come out I've come to change my mind on this--the government is the real culprit here. They told the utilities to raise the spot price to the ceiling in an effort to curb demand. The Griddy mess wouldn't be nearly as bad without that.
And, of course, you believe that a for-profit company would not have done that on its own.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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Texas’s Winter Storm Death Toll Likely Four Times Higher Than Reported
The state’s tally currently stands at 151 deaths. But by looking at how many more people died during and immediately after the storm than would have been expected — an established method that has been used to count the full toll of other disasters — we estimate that 700 people were killed by the storm during the week with the worst power outages.
The companies that made the windmills should be shamed...
That purchased them? Products have specs, they bought cheaper windmills. Why? Because if they froze it wouldn't be an issue, they always had the natural gas power. That was the flaw in Texas' thinking. These flaws often go undetected until people die.

Much like the Flint water issue.
A: The water is too corrosive.
B: Is it dangerous to drink.
A: No.
B: It'll be fine.

This is what happens when people make assumptions and/or don't ask the right questions.
 

Loren Pechtel

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Tough. The customer either explicitly clicked an 'I Agree' box, or implicitly agreed to the Corporation's stipulations. What would you have Commissar Biden do? Squeeze the corporation and its billionaire stockholders out of their Holy Profit? Why don't you just go back to North Korea, Yemen, Denmark or some other place that will uphold your communist ideals?

Anyway, I read that Governor Abbott intends to propose New Laws, forbidding any recurrence of this calamity! AOC and Hillary are selling girl-scout cookies, while Republican Abbott steps up to the plate and hits a home run! With innovative bold leadership like that, the whines and whinges of Antifa, Green New Deal, NAACP and other America-haters will soon be forgotten.

Actually, as more details come out I've come to change my mind on this--the government is the real culprit here. They told the utilities to raise the spot price to the ceiling in an effort to curb demand. The Griddy mess wouldn't be nearly as bad without that.
And, of course, you believe that a for-profit company would not have done that on its own.

The mandated price was far above the spot price. This was caused by the government.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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Texas is telling its citizens to Sweat For Deregulation.

Texas saw lots of people suffer and even die when very cold temperatures compromised most of Texas' electric grid which nearly completely collapsed, but thankfully was able to limp along just making people extraordinarily cold. Rolling outages worked out so well, they are being reintroduced this late spring as Texas is telling its citizens that comfort is a 'state of mind', so raise those dials, turn down those subwoofers, and pretty much just suffer because we can't supply the energy needed for comfort.

article said:
Officials with the nonprofit group, which oversees 90 percent of Texas' energy production, asked residents to set their thermostats higher, turn off lights and avoid using larger appliances until Friday.

A spokeswoman for the group told reporters that the outages accounted for more than 12,000 megawatts, enough to power 2.4 million homes. Some areas of the state, including Dallas and Tarrant counties, were warned about poor air quality and potentially dangerous heat, with the heat index approaching 110 degrees.

The index in Houston also topped 100 degrees.

A senior official with ERCOT, Warren Lasher, said it wasn't clear why there were so many unplanned outages. But he said that the group is "deeply concerned" about the plants that are offline and that a thorough investigation is being conducted to better understand the problems.
Gonna be near 100 in plenty parts of Texas. Seems like Texas just sucks.

Ohio had a ridiculously hot July last year, with more days above 90 degrees for the high than the area usually sees all summer. We had zero rolling blackouts.
 

Mumbles

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Texas is telling its citizens to Sweat For Deregulation.

Texas saw lots of people suffer and even die when very cold temperatures compromised most of Texas' electric grid which nearly completely collapsed, but thankfully was able to limp along just making people extraordinarily cold. Rolling outages worked out so well, they are being reintroduced this late spring as Texas is telling its citizens that comfort is a 'state of mind', so raise those dials, turn down those subwoofers, and pretty much just suffer because we can't supply the energy needed for comfort.

article said:
Officials with the nonprofit group, which oversees 90 percent of Texas' energy production, asked residents to set their thermostats higher, turn off lights and avoid using larger appliances until Friday.

A spokeswoman for the group told reporters that the outages accounted for more than 12,000 megawatts, enough to power 2.4 million homes. Some areas of the state, including Dallas and Tarrant counties, were warned about poor air quality and potentially dangerous heat, with the heat index approaching 110 degrees.

The index in Houston also topped 100 degrees.

A senior official with ERCOT, Warren Lasher, said it wasn't clear why there were so many unplanned outages. But he said that the group is "deeply concerned" about the plants that are offline and that a thorough investigation is being conducted to better understand the problems.
Gonna be near 100 in plenty parts of Texas. Seems like Texas just sucks.

Ohio had a ridiculously hot July last year, with more days above 90 degrees for the high than the area usually sees all summer. We had zero rolling blackouts.

Seems like the sort of thing you expect when you elect people to actually run the state and local governments, instead of wallowing is culture war nonsense.

Who knew? Well, probably the folks that vote for dems in Texas, first and foremost.
 

Loren Pechtel

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Gonna be near 100 in plenty parts of Texas. Seems like Texas just sucks.

Near 100?

<ROTFL>

113 here right now according to Google. (Admittedly, we aren't on the valley floor, I doubt it's more than 110 in our yard.)
 

zorq

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Gonna be near 100 in plenty parts of Texas. Seems like Texas just sucks.

Near 100?

<ROTFL>

113 here right now according to Google. (Admittedly, we aren't on the valley floor, I doubt it's more than 110 in our yard.)

Eh, I'll take the dry 113 in Vegas over the humid 100 in Texas any day.
 

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Gonna be near 100 in plenty parts of Texas. Seems like Texas just sucks.

Near 100?

<ROTFL>

113 here right now according to Google. (Admittedly, we aren't on the valley floor, I doubt it's more than 110 in our yard.)

Eh, I'll take the dry 113 in Vegas over the humid 100 in Texas any day.

More and more we are exceeding wet bulb temperatures beyond which humans can regulate their body temp.
Folks in the southern US are going to need to become more nocturnal. Possibly take to living underground.
 

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113? God damn, hats off to you Loren.

meh. That's only 45°

That 45° ties the all-time record reported in 1958 by the nearest major weather station (484000) to my home. But how many consecutive days of 40°+ heat were there in Nevada?

As reported by that Weather Station, April-May 2016 had 32 days of 42°+ heat. From April 3, 2016 to April 29, every day's high was 40°+, fifteen of these days were 43°+. April 30 and May 1 were below 40°, but May 2 through May 13 were all 40°+. This 2016 heat-wave set records all over S.E. Asia. Heaven helped the many millions of people without air-conditioning.
 

Harry Bosch

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113? God damn, hats off to you Loren.

I've never understood why anyone would want to live in an area where you go outsides into nature without dying of heat exhaustion. Everything is fine in my life as long as I can ski in the winter and spring; hike, fish and kayak in the summer and fall. I'd never live in south!
 

Jimmy Higgins

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113? God damn, hats off to you Loren.

I've never understood why anyone would want to live in an area where you go outsides into nature without dying of heat exhaustion. Everything is fine in my life as long as I can ski in the winter and spring; hike, fish and kayak in the summer and fall. I'd never live in south!
Likewise. I demand a winter to kill the bugs! And a summer (spring and fall?) I don't have to hide from.
 

Loren Pechtel

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113? God damn, hats off to you Loren.

I've never understood why anyone would want to live in an area where you go outsides into nature without dying of heat exhaustion. Everything is fine in my life as long as I can ski in the winter and spring; hike, fish and kayak in the summer and fall. I'd never live in south!

I'm not into skiing or fishing. Never tried kayaking. I can hike anytime other than during heat waves like this--the mountain trailheads are roughly 20 below the city and the high areas are 30 below the city.
 

Patooka

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113? God damn, hats off to you Loren.

meh. That's only 45°

That 45° ties the all-time record reported in 1958 by the nearest major weather station (484000) to my home. But how many consecutive days of 40°+ heat were there in Nevada?

As reported by that Weather Station, April-May 2016 had 32 days of 42°+ heat. From April 3, 2016 to April 29, every day's high was 40°+, fifteen of these days were 43°+. April 30 and May 1 were below 40°, but May 2 through May 13 were all 40°+. This 2016 heat-wave set records all over S.E. Asia. Heaven helped the many millions of people without air-conditioning.

Bilby lives in a part of Australia that is usually on fire in summer. 45 is borderline Arctic in comparison.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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That 45° ties the all-time record reported in 1958 by the nearest major weather station (484000) to my home. But how many consecutive days of 40°+ heat were there in Nevada?

As reported by that Weather Station, April-May 2016 had 32 days of 42°+ heat. From April 3, 2016 to April 29, every day's high was 40°+, fifteen of these days were 43°+. April 30 and May 1 were below 40°, but May 2 through May 13 were all 40°+. This 2016 heat-wave set records all over S.E. Asia. Heaven helped the many millions of people without air-conditioning.

Bilby lives in a part of Australia that is usually on fire in summer. 45 is borderline Arctic in comparison.

Yeah, bilby once mistook Fahrenheit 451 for the weather forecast.
 

Swammerdami

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The only waste disposal issues are political - anti nuclear protestors don't want a solution, because it would take away their favourite talking point. But the fact is, we already solved all the problems, and have a variety of excellent options to pick from.
...
The worst possible result from a nuclear plant incident would be another Chernobyl. It's basically physically impossible for a power plant to fail worse than that.

Include me in the camp agreeing that nuclear power is a must-have for those serious about fighting CO2 emissions.

HOWEVER ... is it necessary to impugn the motives of anti-nuclear protestors? We know 35% of Americans favor lies and hypocrisy over all other values; is there any hope for us if that number is 55% instead?

And I wonder about "physically impossible for a power plant to fail worse than [Chernobyl did]." This is certainly not the viewpoint of the excellent HBO documentary Chernobyl. One group of heroes sustained lethal radiation dosages to prevent a disastrous steam explosion. Even more important, another group of volunteer coal miners stopped a nuclear meltdown which could have contaminated the Pripyat and Dnieper Rivers, the local water supply for 50 million people, plus crops and livestock.

I agree that nuclear power is now safer than ever, and join in condemning the political impasses in U.S. that prevent wider adoption. But let's please do not minimize the heroism of Ukrainians and Russians who kept the Chernobyl disaster from being even worse than it was.


~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

I like this about Ted Cruz, the Senator from Cancun:

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "I don’t care what Cruz said at CPAC, but I do care that it appears Texas was just a layover stop for him between Cancun and Orlando to drop a pack of water into someone’s trunk and abandon his constituents again as they get slammed with $16,000 electrical bills." / Twitter

"Senator from Cancun"?

There is a bit of Congressional courtesy, and that is referring to fellow members as a colleague or whatever from their state. This has obvious extensions, like Joe Biden as the Senator from Amtrak.

Truman was "Senator from Pendergast;" Lieberman the "Senator from Insurancecticut." Manchin seems to be proudly embracing his new role as "Senator from Koch Industries." Who are some others? Is Rand Paul the "Senator from Objectivism"? Hawley the "Senator from QAnon"? Mitch McConnell seems happy to act as Vladimir Putin's lapdog, but I'm not sure he's the appropriate guy to spend the coveted title "Senator from Moscow" on.
 

bilby

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The HBO show Chernobyl wasn't a documentary, it was a dramatisation.

It got a lot of things very wrong indeed.

Don't go looking for facts on TV. With a very few, very obvious, exceptions, TV shows are entertainment, not education. Any educational value is either explicit (eg BBC Open University lextures), or incidental.
 

Swammerdami

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The HBO show Chernobyl wasn't a documentary, it was a dramatisation.

It got a lot of things very wrong indeed.

Don't go looking for facts on TV. With a very few, very obvious, exceptions, TV shows are entertainment, not education. Any educational value is either explicit (eg BBC Open University lextures), or incidental.

:confused:
(1) documentary vs dramatisation? Distinction often without important qualitative difference.
(2) WHAT did the series get very wrong? Don't say that Whatsername was a conflation of several people: the series itself points that out in concluding remarks.
(3) Same to you, buddy! :) I confirmed the relevant facts with Wikipedia and/or the sources it cites.
 

bilby

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The HBO show Chernobyl wasn't a documentary, it was a dramatisation.

It got a lot of things very wrong indeed.

Don't go looking for facts on TV. With a very few, very obvious, exceptions, TV shows are entertainment, not education. Any educational value is either explicit (eg BBC Open University lextures), or incidental.

:confused:
(1) documentary vs dramatisation? Distinction often without important qualitative difference.
:rofl: I think you genuinely believe that. Which is a sad indictment of the TV industry, and an excellent reason why you shouldn't try to use TV shows to learn facts.
(2) WHAT did the series get very wrong? Don't say that Whatsername was a conflation of several people: the series itself points that out in concluding remarks.
Where to start?

Let's take your example: There was never any risk of a second steam explosion doing any further damage; Any such event would have been minuscule in comparison to the major steam explosion that destroyed the reactor, and would have just tossed rubble around. No containment still existed that could have allowed sufficient over pressure for a steam explosion.

That's far from the only major factual error, but it is more than enough on its own to eliminate any claims of being a documentary.
(3) Same to you, buddy! :) I confirmed the relevant facts with Wikipedia and/or the sources it cites.

Clearly you didn't.
 

Loren Pechtel

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113? God damn, hats off to you Loren.

I reckon in that kind of weather, you might want to keep your hat on.

Definitely. My hair has thinned enough that I must wear a hat when hiking or the top of my head will sunburn. There's enough hair to make it basically impossible to apply sunscreen, though.

114 now, today, tomorrow and Saturday.
 

Swammerdami

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:rofl: I think you genuinely believe that. Which is a sad indictment of the TV industry, and an excellent reason why you shouldn't try to use TV shows to learn facts.
(2) WHAT did the series get very wrong? Don't say that Whatsername was a conflation of several people: the series itself points that out in concluding remarks.
Where to start?

Let's take your example: There was never any risk of a second steam explosion doing any further damage; Any such event would have been minuscule in comparison to the major steam explosion that destroyed the reactor, and would have just tossed rubble around. No containment still existed that could have allowed sufficient over pressure for a steam explosion.

That's far from the only major factual error, but it is more than enough on its own to eliminate any claims of being a documentary.
(3) Same to you, buddy! :) I confirmed the relevant facts with Wikipedia and/or the sources it cites.

Clearly you didn't.

(1) Ad hominem.

(2)
Wikipedia said:
The smoldering graphite, fuel and other material above, at more than 1,200 °C (2,190 °F),[74] started to burn through the reactor floor and mixed with molten concrete from the reactor lining, creating corium, a radioactive semi-liquid material comparable to lava.[73][75] If this mixture had melted through the floor into the pool of water, it was feared it could have created a serious steam explosion that would have ejected more radioactive material from the reactor. It became necessary to drain the pool.[76]

(3) I win. (See #1 and #2.)
 

Jarhyn

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113? God damn, hats off to you Loren.

I reckon in that kind of weather, you might want to keep your hat on.

Definitely. My hair has thinned enough that I must wear a hat when hiking or the top of my head will sunburn. There's enough hair to make it basically impossible to apply sunscreen, though.

114 now, today, tomorrow and Saturday.

Hot damn. Literally. Then, I wear a hat to protect my scalp and neck from the sun regardless of how much of a long haired hippy I am. Try not to die in that mess. I do enjoy bickering with you as much as it appears bilby and Swammerdami enjoy doing so.
 

bilby

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:rofl: I think you genuinely believe that. Which is a sad indictment of the TV industry, and an excellent reason why you shouldn't try to use TV shows to learn facts.

Where to start?

Let's take your example: There was never any risk of a second steam explosion doing any further damage; Any such event would have been minuscule in comparison to the major steam explosion that destroyed the reactor, and would have just tossed rubble around. No containment still existed that could have allowed sufficient over pressure for a steam explosion.

That's far from the only major factual error, but it is more than enough on its own to eliminate any claims of being a documentary.


Clearly you didn't.

(1) Ad hominem.

(2)
Wikipedia said:
The smoldering graphite, fuel and other material above, at more than 1,200 °C (2,190 °F),[74] started to burn through the reactor floor and mixed with molten concrete from the reactor lining, creating corium, a radioactive semi-liquid material comparable to lava.[73][75] If this mixture had melted through the floor into the pool of water, it was feared it could have created a serious steam explosion that would have ejected more radioactive material from the reactor. It became necessary to drain the pool.[76]

(3) I win. (See #1 and #2.)

I never suggested that people didn't fear it, only that it couldn't have actually happened.

Reality doesn't give two shits about who wins or loses debates. Winning a debate doesn't alter facts, nor change the laws of physics.
 

Politesse

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(1) Ad hominem.

(2)


(3) I win. (See #1 and #2.)

I never suggested that people didn't fear it, only that it couldn't have actually happened.

Reality doesn't give two shits about who wins or loses debates. Winning a debate doesn't alter facts, nor change the laws of physics.

So in your mind, the dramatization would be more accurate if the characters talked only about the things we know now, as opposed to re-enacting the conversations they actually had at the time? :confused:
 
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