The Absurdity Of The Tax Bill

[Tristan Scott]

Are the wealthy so insular they have no idea on what the stability of their wealth depends.

I believe it's the very nature of the greedy to be shortsighted. Even to the point of their own demise, or at least detriment.

This axiom is proven throughout history.

 

[steve_bank]

Are the wealthy so insular they have no idea on what the stability of their wealth depends.

I believe it's the very nature of the greedy to be shortsighted. Even to the point of their own demise, or at least detriment.

This axiom is proven throughout history.

From a bio of Henry Ford I watched, Trump and Ford were similar.

Ford was a terrible autocrat businessman who got rid of people who told him what he did not want to hear, and could not delegate to his detriment. Like Trump at times hovered around bankruptcy.

 

[Ford]

Serious question:

Is there anyone around here who sincerely believes that this tax cut plan either...

1. Will benefit the middle class and below long term?

2. Was actually designed to do so?

 

[Harry Bosch]

If things all goes badly as some feel including health care, at some point people will see no benefit in buying into the system.

Are the wealthy so insular they have no idea on what the stability of their wealth depends. Perhaps Trump is a prime example.

If things get really bad having gold and guns in your basement will not do you any good. I get a good laugh at the commercials offering personal gold as a hedge against economic collapse.

You assume that people always vote or act based on their economic interests. The working class (especially whites) love Trump.

 

[untermensche]

Serious question:

Is there anyone around here who sincerely believes that this tax cut plan either...

1. Will benefit the middle class and below long term?

2. Was actually designed to do so?

The Republican party is solely the servant of a very small minority of very rich people.

Everything it does is to serve that minority.

That is the trick.

You have to watch what it does.

Not listen to what it says.

What it says is one lie after another. There is not the tiniest sliver of sincerity or honesty in what Republicans say. It is all carefully crafted to elicit emotional responses in Republican voters. Pavlovian voters, not thinkers.

 

[southernhybrid]

If things all goes badly as some feel including health care, at some point people will see no benefit in buying into the system.

Are the wealthy so insular they have no idea on what the stability of their wealth depends. Perhaps Trump is a prime example.

If things get really bad having gold and guns in your basement will not do you any good. I get a good laugh at the commercials offering personal gold as a hedge against economic collapse.

You assume that people always vote or act based on their economic interests. The working class (especially whites) love Trump.

I don't even think that they realize they are voting against their own economic interests. For one thing, they were easily manipulated by Trump who constantly told them he was going to bring back jobs in dying industries, protect their social security etc. Another problem as I see it here in Georgia is that far too many people don't have a clue as to what's going on. They don't read legitimate sources of news, don't watch national news, or any publications that try to be objective. If they view news at all, it's usually Fox.

Most of the younger people I know, don't even bother to vote, often don't even realize an election is coming, or they only vote in presidential elections. I'm sure Georgia isn't the only state full of low information voters and non voters. And then, there are a lot of people who think the Democrats are evil so they don't even bother to try and study the issues or the platform of the candidates. Ignorance is a huge problem in the US, especially when it comes to government and voting. I don't know how to change this.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The most vibrant and healthy economy is the economy where expendable wealth is spread into as many hands as possible.

A minority of millionaires and billionaires have nothing to do with a vibrant and healthy economy. They are in fact a hindrance to one.

What you are missing is that most of the wealth in question is in the form of the tools of production.

Spreading it out converts money from future development to current consumption. Today's standard of living rises, tomorrow's falls.

 

[SimpleDon]

I think that the Republicans have recognized that that they are close to running out their string as a minority party with control of the government. They lost the popular vote for president and for both houses of Congress. They elected a moronic clown to the presidency. Their support for radical fundamentalist religion has them close to electing a pedophile to the US Senate. The failure to undo ObamaCare and to replace it with something better and cheaper showed their inability to actually govern based on any principles beyond lowering taxes on the wealthy. The odds are about 50/50 that the Supreme Court will find that gerrymandering is not consistent with the one man one vote ideal of democratic governance.

They have to face that they will probably lose the House in 2018, the presidency and the Senate in 2020.

I think that the Republicans believe that this is the last opportunity to pass this tax cut to pay back their donors.

 

[Copernicus]

Details will emerge slowly as the dust settles after the rush to ram this thing through. One thing that the sponsors forgot to mention was cuts to Medicare and Social Security, which affect a substantial portion of the Republican base immediately when the bill takes effect in 2019. Social Security and Medicare are adjusted every year to keep up with inflation, according to a metric that has been used for decades. The Republican bill recalculates inflation so that future COLA increases will diminish significantly, thus forcing cutbacks in services. This is a change that Republicans have long tried to push through and were not able to do it in the light of day. They have finally achieved their goal. It is probably a bit too complex and under the radar than to reach most of those who depend on the COLAs.

 

[Axulus]

Details will emerge slowly as the dust settles after the rush to ram this thing through. One thing that the sponsors forgot to mention was cuts to Medicare and Social Security, which affect a substantial portion of the Republican base immediately when the bill takes effect in 2019. Social Security and Medicare are adjusted every year to keep up with inflation, according to a metric that has been used for decades. The Republican bill recalculates inflation so that future COLA increases will diminish significantly, thus forcing cutbacks in services. This is a change that Republicans have long tried to push through and were not able to do it in the light of day. They have finally achieved their goal. It is probably a bit too complex and under the radar than to reach most of those who depend on the COLAs.

Do you have a link? I read about the change for tax inflation adjuatments from the CPI to the chained CPI measure, which is actually a better measure of inflation in a lot of ways. However, the tax bill doesn't affect SS/medicare.

 

[laughing dog]

Details will emerge slowly as the dust settles after the rush to ram this thing through. One thing that the sponsors forgot to mention was cuts to Medicare and Social Security, which affect a substantial portion of the Republican base immediately when the bill takes effect in 2019. Social Security and Medicare are adjusted every year to keep up with inflation, according to a metric that has been used for decades. The Republican bill recalculates inflation so that future COLA increases will diminish significantly, thus forcing cutbacks in services. This is a change that Republicans have long tried to push through and were not able to do it in the light of day. They have finally achieved their goal. It is probably a bit too complex and under the radar than to reach most of those who depend on the COLAs.

Do you have a link? I read about the change for tax inflation adjuatments from the CPI to the chained CPI measure, which is actually a better measure of inflation in a lot of ways. However, the tax bill doesn't affect SS/medicare.

Not directly, but the Republicans now have more ammunition to cut "welfare" in order to deal with the deficits.

 

[jonatha]

However, the tax bill doesn't affect SS/medicare.

PAYGO (https://www.aarp.org/politics-society/advocacy/info-2017/senate-tax-medicare-cuts-fd.html)

 

[Copernicus]

Details will emerge slowly as the dust settles after the rush to ram this thing through. One thing that the sponsors forgot to mention was cuts to Medicare and Social Security, which affect a substantial portion of the Republican base immediately when the bill takes effect in 2019. Social Security and Medicare are adjusted every year to keep up with inflation, according to a metric that has been used for decades. The Republican bill recalculates inflation so that future COLA increases will diminish significantly, thus forcing cutbacks in services. This is a change that Republicans have long tried to push through and were not able to do it in the light of day. They have finally achieved their goal. It is probably a bit too complex and under the radar than to reach most of those who depend on the COLAs.

Do you have a link? I read about the change for tax inflation adjuatments from the CPI to the chained CPI measure, which is actually a better measure of inflation in a lot of ways. However, the tax bill doesn't affect SS/medicare.

My understanding is that the current bill switches the calculation of the COLA from the traditional one that has been used for decades to the so-called "chained CPI", which can be manipulated to understate inflation. Of course, it remains to be seen exactly what the details are, given all of the last minute changes made to the bill. However, this had been reported on as early as the end of November. See A plan to make Social Security solvent.

Social Security, often referred to as an "entitlement", is really based on a regressive payroll tax. One obvious way to make it solvent very quickly would be to adjust or remove the cap on FICA payments. However, that wouldn't help billionaires and corporations. So the Republican donor class opposes that.

 

[ZiprHead]

https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/115th-congress-2017-2018/costestimate/reconciliationrecommendationssfc.pdf

See page ten.

 

[Ford]

Details will emerge slowly as the dust settles after the rush to ram this thing through. One thing that the sponsors forgot to mention was cuts to Medicare and Social Security, which affect a substantial portion of the Republican base immediately when the bill takes effect in 2019. Social Security and Medicare are adjusted every year to keep up with inflation, according to a metric that has been used for decades. The Republican bill recalculates inflation so that future COLA increases will diminish significantly, thus forcing cutbacks in services. This is a change that Republicans have long tried to push through and were not able to do it in the light of day. They have finally achieved their goal. It is probably a bit too complex and under the radar than to reach most of those who depend on the COLAs.

Do you have a link? I read about the change for tax inflation adjuatments from the CPI to the chained CPI measure, which is actually a better measure of inflation in a lot of ways. However, the tax bill doesn't affect SS/medicare.

Not directly, but the Republicans now have more ammunition to cut "welfare" in order to deal with the deficits.

I thought that - apart from giving tax relief to the struggling 1 percent - was the whole point of the bill.

Not long from now...perhaps as early as next year...the GOP will begin to bang the deficit drum that has laid silent since the beginning of this tax bill push. They're all going to be shocked - shocked I tell you - that deficits are on the rise, and will begin to propose attacking that surprisingly (sarcasm) large deficit by cutting spending.

Social Security will be first. Or Medicare will be first. Or both at the same time.

And here's the other thing. Even if pigs suddenly become more aerodynamic and this tax cut does somehow lead to an increase in tax revenue, Social Security and Medicare will still be gutted in the name of deficit reduction.

Remember, when Bush Jr. came into office? We actually had a surplus, and it hadn't yet been busted and turned into a massive deficit by two unfunded wars. What was on the menu back then? Cutting Social Security and Medicare.

We could have the biggest expansion of the US economy in history, with money raining from the skies, and the GOP would still be working on how to gut social safety nets.

 

[RVonse]

Serious question:

Is there anyone around here who sincerely believes that this tax cut plan either...

1. Will benefit the middle class and below long term?

2. Was actually designed to do so?

Ive heard that it will get rid of a lot of itemized deductions but will double the standard deduction. If thats true I like that because it closes loopholes and simplifies the filing. In my particular case I might even do better because I alway take the standard deduction anyway (I paid my house off a long time ago).

But the main point to be made is this. Even if I have to pay the same amount its much better if I only spend an hour doing taxes versus all day long. They are supposedly making the form simpler. And that cant be bad.

 

[Ford]

Serious question:

Is there anyone around here who sincerely believes that this tax cut plan either...

1. Will benefit the middle class and below long term?

2. Was actually designed to do so?

Ive heard that it will get rid of a lot of itemized deductions but will double the standard deduction. If thats true I like that because it closes loopholes and simplifies the filing. In my particular case I might even do better because I alway take the standard deduction anyway (I paid my house off a long time ago).

But the main point to be made is this. Even if I have to pay the same amount its much better if I only spend an hour doing taxes versus all day long. They are supposedly making the form simpler. And that cant be bad.

That sounds nice, doesn't it?

Yet I can't help but think back to the last time the GOP served up a "middle class tax cut."

I got a check for 300 dollars. Not long after, the economy nose-dived and I lost 100k in home equity and my 401k was cut in half.


But I got a check for 300 dollars, so that evens out, right?

 

[RVonse]

Im not even expecting the $300. I will be happy enough if they just make filing simpler.

 

[RVonse]

Lets just take my personal situation as an example.

I live in st louis but work in 2 states (missouri and illinois). Plus I am the designated trustee for my son because my parents wanted their money left to him that way.

So each year I have to file 2 federal forms (the trust and myself) plus the associated Missouri and Illinois forms.
Thats a LOT of taxes to do for someone who makes their normal living as an electrician!

Im ready for simpler taxes!

And the Republicans are advertising simpler so I like it.

 

[untermensche]

The most vibrant and healthy economy is the economy where expendable wealth is spread into as many hands as possible.

A minority of millionaires and billionaires have nothing to do with a vibrant and healthy economy. They are in fact a hindrance to one.

What you are missing is that most of the wealth in question is in the form of the tools of production.

Spreading it out converts money from future development to current consumption. Today's standard of living rises, tomorrow's falls.

All wealth comes from labor.

All of it.

All the tools of production were paid for by workers, from the theft from workers, which is a ubiquitous feature of top down dictatorial capitalism.