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The Bible is a mess and that is good

DrZoidberg

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I usually don't like to post or look at videos. But this is a good one.

'

He's making a simple argument. The Bible doesn't have a single message. It's a bit of a mess. Which I like about the Bible. It's a product of ideological and theological evolution. It's a collection of time capsules. It allows us to connect to and relate to our ancestors.

Enjoy
 

rousseau

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Early religion is just another form of ontology, not that different in character from modern philosophy. It was just that back then knowable, material facts were scarce, and ideas about creation and spirituality were popular.

When you break it down religion comes into existence when people sit around trying to figure out what the hell is going on. Imagine being a prehistoric hunter gatherer in Africa. You know you exist, you know animals exist, but you have absolutely no such thing as a scientific explanation for these phenomena. So you sit around drinking beer with your friends, concoct stories and possibilities, and pass them on.

It's easy to get caught up in the institutionalization of religion, but you're right, back then this is just how we engaged with the world.
 

DrZoidberg

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Early religion is just another form of ontology, not that different in character from modern philosophy. It was just that back then knowable, material facts were scarce, and ideas about creation and spirituality were popular.

When you break it down religion comes into existence when people sit around trying to figure out what the hell is going on. Imagine being a prehistoric hunter gatherer in Africa. You know you exist, you know animals exist, but you have absolutely no such thing as a scientific explanation for these phenomena. So you sit around drinking beer with your friends, concoct stories and possibilities, and pass them on.

It's easy to get caught up in the institutionalization of religion, but you're right, back then this is just how we engaged with the world.
I don't think that is true. That's not what myths are or what they are for. Netflix is full of modern myths we enjoy telling each other. We like this. We like telling stories to one another that we know are fictional. We use art to explain and explore facets of reality.

What makes ancient religious myths special is that writing and spreading written stories was expensive. Most often these stories were spread orally. What shaped ancient mythic traditions is more a question of available technology rather than any conscious attempt to explain stuff. I mean... obviously. The people who first came up with these stories obviously knew they were just making shit up.

Over time these ancient traditions keep retelling the same story over and over until it sticks and we think it's true. Since we have no evidence the world isn't riding on the back of elephants who are standing on a huge turtle we might start treating it as truth.

And this isn't unique to the ancient world. UFO stories have a similar pattern. Similar stories keep being repeated until a share of the population start believing it. Or conspiracy theories. For whatever reason this is a part of human psychology. And this is going on since after the birth of science.

This is an apt quote.

"When we dream alone it is only a dream, but when many dream together it is the beginning of a new reality."
/ Friedensreich Hundertwasser
 

rousseau

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Early religion is just another form of ontology, not that different in character from modern philosophy. It was just that back then knowable, material facts were scarce, and ideas about creation and spirituality were popular.

When you break it down religion comes into existence when people sit around trying to figure out what the hell is going on. Imagine being a prehistoric hunter gatherer in Africa. You know you exist, you know animals exist, but you have absolutely no such thing as a scientific explanation for these phenomena. So you sit around drinking beer with your friends, concoct stories and possibilities, and pass them on.

It's easy to get caught up in the institutionalization of religion, but you're right, back then this is just how we engaged with the world.
I don't think that is true. That's not what myths are or what they are for. Netflix is full of modern myths we enjoy telling each other. We like this. We like telling stories to one another that we know are fictional. We use art to explain and explore facets of reality.

What makes ancient religious myths special is that writing and spreading written stories was expensive. Most often these stories were spread orally. What shaped ancient mythic traditions is more a question of available technology rather than any conscious attempt to explain stuff. I mean... obviously. The people who first came up with these stories obviously knew they were just making shit up.

Over time these ancient traditions keep retelling the same story over and over until it sticks and we think it's true. Since we have no evidence the world isn't riding on the back of elephants who are standing on a huge turtle we might start treating it as truth.

And this isn't unique to the ancient world. UFO stories have a similar pattern. Similar stories keep being repeated until a share of the population start believing it. Or conspiracy theories. For whatever reason this is a part of human psychology. And this is going on since after the birth of science.

This is an apt quote.

"When we dream alone it is only a dream, but when many dream together it is the beginning of a new reality."
/ Friedensreich Hundertwasser

That the people who made up these stories knew they were making it up is a pretty broad and bold claim. I'm sure that was likely true some of the time, but I'd be surprised if the majority of ancient texts aren't a result of an earnest attempt to explain reality. Or at least an assertion of what reality is.

The form we see them in now might be a little embellished as they've undergone thousands of years of modification, but back then they still largely focused on things like ethics and existence. This is true pretty much across the board.
 

Keith&Co.

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I'm here...

That the people who made up these stories knew they were making it up is a pretty broad and bold claim.
Yeah, right now, the internet is full of people describing the cyborg life forms infesting The Vaccinated; the conspiracies to round 'purebloods' up in concentration camps; that kids wearing masks is a form of pedophilia...
I'm sure SOME of them are making shit up and know they're making shit up, but i am nowhere near certain all of the people trying to explain how the world is marginalizing their fears are aware that they're parrotting OR creating bullshit.
The process to originate the creation myths took longer, but it's essentially the same human minds that did it, with similar but slower feedback.
 

Ruth Harris

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That the people who made up these stories knew they were making it up is a pretty broad and bold claim.
Yeah, right now, the internet is full of people describing the cyborg life forms infesting The Vaccinated; the conspiracies to round 'purebloods' up in concentration camps; that kids wearing masks is a form of pedophilia...
I'm sure SOME of them are making shit up and know they're making shit up, but i am nowhere near certain all of the people trying to explain how the world is marginalizing their fears are aware that they're parrotting OR creating bullshit.
The process to originate the creation myths took longer, but it's essentially the same human minds that did it, with similar but slower feedback.
Excellent! Exactly the point I have tried to make previously regarding the "inerrancy" of scripture.

And sadly, also the truth about today's COVID mythmakers. You know this will be considered gospel for decades, centuries, millennia to come.

Ruth
 

DBT

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The inner visions or experiences of Prophets or Seers may appear to offer explanations for the world, spirit dimension, higher powers, creation, etc, which may have been the seed or foundation for religion. The Seer may genuinely believe they have an insight into God, creation, the spirit world.....
 

Gospel

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I was always under the impression that religion was born from a bunch of stargazers that tried to explain existence by observing the seasons in relation to the objects in the sky. These oral traditions somehow managed to finally make it to paper where it was so far removed from their origins that they are unidentifiable. I have no idea where I got this idea from.
 

Thomas II

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I was always under the impression that religion was born from a bunch of stargazers that tried to explain existence by observing the seasons in relation to the objects in the sky. These oral traditions somehow managed to finally make it to paper where it was so far removed from their origins that they are unidentifiable. I have no idea where I got this idea from.
There you are!
 

Rhea

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But the idea that “and this is good” ignores utterly the easy way that messy doctrines can be misused to end the lives of millions of people.

I don’t think that “is good.”
 
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