The dark side of #blacklivesmatter

[untermensche]

I thought the problem with "black lives matter" was that it seems to imply black lives matter, and not all lives, widening instead of narrowing the race divide. They could at least have put it "black lives matter too".

They are saying it is already a given that white lives matter by the way they are treated.

The "too" is implied.

 

[Rhea]

Funny how self described libertarians always take the side of the State in these issues. It´s almost if the enjoy it when the state uses violence against people of color.

Which one of these took the side of the state?

https://www.youtube.com/user/ReasonTV

I stopped counting after 20 in a row took the side against the state. How about you?

Liberals/leftists always take the side of the state when the motive appears to support their social justice cause.

I can't watch youtube, so I have no idea what point it intends to make (maybe a synopsis, please?)

I'm not sure what your point is. YES leftists think the State is the right vehicle to promote and protect social justice. Was someone disputing that? It's, like, their PLATFORM.

Libertarians SAY that they don't want the state to do practically anything because it would interfere with the kind of social justice they define. And Frikki points out how those words don't really match their actions.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

I thought the problem with "black lives matter" was that it seems to imply black lives matter, and not all lives, widening instead of narrowing the race divide. They could at least have put it "black lives matter too".

Why would it imply that? Taken in a time and a society where black men, women and children are being killed in stores, parks, churches, and their own homes by certain people or based on the word of certain people, why would any thinking person not be able to imagine at least one reason where maybe it might be necessary to remind certain people that black people are living PEOPLE and we have LIVES that matter and should not be taken from us because our lives exist inside black bodies and those certain people value those black bodies less than white ones?

 

[Rhea]

I thought the problem with "black lives matter" was that it seems to imply black lives matter, and not all lives, widening instead of narrowing the race divide. They could at least have put it "black lives matter too".

Why would it imply that?

And what point of view would allow someone to infer it? Someone who is unaware that, "well those people bring it upon themselves" is a statement which claims black lives do not matter?

Taken in a time and a society where black men, women and children are being killed in stores, parks, churches, and their own homes by certain people or based on the word of certain people, why would any thinking person not be able to imagine at least one reason where maybe it might be necessary to remind certain people that black people are living PEOPLE and we have LIVES that matter and should not be taken from us because our lives exist inside black bodies and those certain people value those black bodies less than white ones?

I thought this was obvious from the first moment I heard #BlackLivesMatter I think it's a great slogan that expresses the horror that should be evoked when we see people acting as if, because of their blackness, they do not.

 

[Derec]

And what point of view would allow someone to infer it? Someone who is unaware that, "well those people bring it upon themselves" is a statement which claims black lives do not matter?

"Those people" == criminals, not black people. Michael Brown was the inaugural BLM cause celebre (also remember the misplaced outrage on this very forum) and it has turned out that a) BLM chant of "hands up don't shoot" was based on falsehoods and b) he would never had been shot had he not attacked the police officer after robbing a store. So yes, he did bring it upon himself and pointing that out does not mean that black lives in general do not matter.

Taken in a time and a society where black men, women and children are being killed in stores, parks, churches, and their own homes by certain people or based on the word of certain people, why would any thinking person not be able to imagine at least one reason where maybe it might be necessary to remind certain people that black people are living PEOPLE and we have LIVES that matter and should not be taken from us because our lives exist inside black bodies and those certain people value those black bodies less than white ones?

Most black people who are killed are killed by other black people, not by police, not by white civilians. And most people championed by BLM have been criminals.

I thought this was obvious from the first moment I heard #BlackLivesMatter I think it's a great slogan that expresses the horror that should be evoked when we see people acting as if, because of their blackness, they do not.

But is it because of their blackness? White people get shot by police. White people commit suicide in jail. It's just that they do not spawn wall-to-wall MSM coverage, they do not become hashtags and they do not trigger riots. When black deaths (and only black deaths), even when shootings were justifiable, cause all that, then it is reasonable to conclude that #blacklivesmatter implies #whitelivesdonot.

 

[laughing dog]

Most black people who are killed are killed by other black people, not by police, not by white civilians. And most people championed by BLM have been criminals.

Irrelevant hobby horse spotted.

But is it because of their blackness? White people get shot by police. White people commit suicide in jail. It's just that they do not spawn wall-to-wall MSM coverage, they do not become hashtags and they do not trigger riots. When black deaths (and only black deaths), even when shootings were justifiable, cause all that, then it is reasonable to conclude that #blacklivesmatter implies #whitelivesdonot.

Oh noes. The "white people have it just as bad" moronic hobby horse.

 

[Derec]

Hobby horse = pointing out facts that do not fit into my ideology </progressoauthoritarian>

 

[Trausti]

But is it because of their blackness? White people get shot by police. White people commit suicide in jail. It's just that they do not spawn wall-to-wall MSM coverage, they do not become hashtags and they do not trigger riots. When black deaths (and only black deaths), even when shootings were justifiable, cause all that, then it is reasonable to conclude that #blacklivesmatter implies #whitelivesdonot.

Maybe the whole meme has been confused. https://twitter.com/hashtag/blacklabsmatter

 

[laughing dog]

Hobby horse = pointing out facts that do not fit into my ideology </progressoauthoritarian>

Don't be so hard on yourself. For some reason, you think there is no logical or political or social difference between civilians killing each other, and the police (agents of the state with special privileges) killing people. Police killing unarmed civilians is a real problem for society and for the police. Regardless of your views of the reasonableness or legitimacy of a large portion of the black community's concern over the treatment of blacks by the police, their concern and views are a real issue for the stability and peace of our society. Railing about black on black civilian crime or whining about how the black community ignores white people being killed by police is a pathetic attempt to deflect from that problem. Especially when it comes from a poster with a long and documentable history of minimizing and ridiculing the concerns of the black community.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

I thought the problem with "black lives matter" was that it seems to imply black lives matter, and not all lives, widening instead of narrowing the race divide. They could at least have put it "black lives matter too".

Why would it imply that?

It goes out of its way to be exclusive when it could be much more effective if it was inclusive. This is especially important if you are trying to draw empathy from a group you feel hasn't shown it due to an us vs them sort of divide (which is what racism is). If you really want to make a difference you need to make people feel like we are all part of the same group, and underscore our equality within it, instead of leaving the impression that we are a bunch of separate tribes in competition. It helps to show that you are out for fairness to all, and that you are not just pushing your particular subgroup. Do you care about black rights or human rights? Black lives or all lives? Further note that #blacklivesmatter doesn't just exclude white people. It also excludes latinos, asians, and everybody else who isn't black or white.

#blacklivesmattertoo would avoid that. 3 extra letters. #alllivesmatter would be even better. Because all lives do matter, and if some are being treated differently than others because of their race, gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation, or whatever, that should be addressed for what it is. This isn't just a black people issue. This is an all people issue. We have all been treated unfairly at one time or another to some extent due to some arbitrary trait beyond our control. Some far more than others, yes, but we should all be able to relate, have empathy, and therefore care, if you make this inclusive instead of divisive. The holocaust wasn't just about jews, and all lives matter because they are lives, not because they are black or white.

 

[ksen]

thanks for whitesplainin'!

 

[Rhea]

One of the reasons that I think it is CORRECT to specify Black Lives is because of the pervasive and far-reaching mentality that black lives don't exist, that their existence is not different from those of white lives. I think the eye-opener to "what _is_ a Black Life like?" is a question not asked by too many people.

If you say "ALL LIVES MATTER" then what stops them from continuing to think only about white lives,a s they have for the last couple of centuries?

Black Lives is a jarring interruption to the white fairy tale in which black lives aren't even a thing.

For those of us who live in America, there are a variety of ways you can live utterly and completely ignorant of the difference between a white life and a black life.

• You can live in a segregated (purposely or not) area. Such as I do. Where you do not _SEE_ any black people. Like, AT ALL. You blithely go through life unaware of any injustice based on race because you never EVER see it. You begin to wonder how bad racial injustice actually is, since you have NEVER seen it.
• or you live in that place, but since the ONLY black lives you see are the ones on FOX news, you actually think Black Lives are just asking for everything they get and it's all just and right.
• You can live in an area where people who are black and white both live, but do not interact. Again, will you even see racial injustice?
• You can live in an area where racism is rampant and pervasive. In a place where you do not care about racial injustice because you grow up learning that they "deserve" these things or something.

In the first two areas, an #AllLives campaign does not impinge upon your thinking. It does not cause people to wake up to injustice. It's pablum. Of course all lives matter, they always have. What do you want on your hamburger, dear?

So #BlackLivesMatter is a wake-up. It causes us to pick up our heads, look around, What? Did someone say they didn't? HOLY SHIT, HOW DID I MISS THAT, they ARE saying black lives don't matter! No way, man, not in my America! Black lives DO matter! I agree!

It's because we've always KNOWN that white lives matter. It doesn't need a heads-up. Some of America did NOT know that black lives were being discounted, wasted, harmed, ended.

Wake up. Hell, yes. Thank you, I must have hit doze.

 

[Trausti]

thanks for whitesplainin'!

If you can't refute the argument then denigrate the poster. Bravo.

 

[abaddon]

If it becomes acceptable to interfere when the police do their job, then the police will no longer do their job. And you get Baltimore post-Freddie Gray.

Isn't the job of the Police to serve and protect?

Yeah but to serve and protect what?

Answer is, to serve the propertied and protect their property. If you want them to serve and protect all of the people, then you need some major changes in what the United States of America is about.

 

[ksen]

thanks for whitesplainin'!

If you can't refute the argument then denigrate the poster. Bravo.

What argument?

The one where black people should worry about the feelings of white people while protesting state violence directed at them?

Nah.

That "argument" should be mocked, not refuted.

 

[Trausti]

If you can't refute the argument then denigrate the poster. Bravo.

What argument?

The one where black people should worry about the feelings of white people while protesting state violence directed at them?

Nah.

That "argument" should be mocked, not refuted.

Claiming that someone is "whitesplainin'" is a ploy to shut down argument. Might as well call Jolly_Penguin a racist, a witch, or a poopie head. The actor who uses such ploys should be mocked.

 

[ksen]

I guess you told me!

 

[Tom Sawyer]

What argument?

The one where black people should worry about the feelings of white people while protesting state violence directed at them?

Nah.

That "argument" should be mocked, not refuted.

Claiming that someone is "whitesplainin'" is a ploy to shut down argument. Might as well call Jolly_Penguin a racist, a witch, or a poopie head. The actor who uses such ploys should be mocked.

Or it's a ploy to just laugh at the argument and not have a purpose beyond that.

Sometimes things don't merit more than a chuckle.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

If you break your leg you put a cast on your leg, not all your limbs. If you have a toothache, you don't tell the dentist to give all your teeth a root canal and if your car catches fire, you don't tell the fire department to hose down the city.

We have a continuing problem in this country of devaluing and allowing if not causing the unnecessary deaths of black people. This phrase calls attention to that problem. If you deny there is a problem, then you are blind, be it physically or willfully. If being reminded makes some of you uncomfortable, tough shit. Saying nothing means people die and as quiet as it's kept, I tend to value human life over the comfort level of the heartless.

 

[laughing dog]

Why would it imply that?

It goes out of its way to be exclusive when it could be much more effective if it was inclusive. This is especially important if you are trying to draw empathy from a group you feel hasn't shown it due to an us vs them sort of divide (which is what racism is). If you really want to make a difference you need to make people feel like we are all part of the same group, and underscore our equality within it, instead of leaving the impression that we are a bunch of separate tribes in competition. It helps to show that you are out for fairness to all, and that you are not just pushing your particular subgroup. Do you care about black rights or human rights? Black lives or all lives? Further note that #blacklivesmatter doesn't just exclude white people. It also excludes latinos, asians, and everybody else who isn't black or white.

#blacklivesmattertoo would avoid that. 3 extra letters. #alllivesmatter would be even better. Because all lives do matter, and if some are being treated differently than others because of their race, gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation, or whatever, that should be addressed for what it is. This isn't just a black people issue. This is an all people issue. We have all been treated unfairly at one time or another to some extent due to some arbitrary trait beyond our control. Some far more than others, yes, but we should all be able to relate, have empathy, and therefore care, if you make this inclusive instead of divisive. The holocaust wasn't just about jews, and all lives matter because they are lives, not because they are black or white.

If white people had always been as sensitive as you seem to think, none of these discussions would arise.