• Welcome to the Internet Infidels Discussion Board.

The ERA is almost approved 35 out of 38 states... kind of.

Most people could have a political discussion. I'm not sure you're up to it though.

Actually I seem to be the one asking questions relevant to the issue and you seem to be the one making personal comments. Again.

Well, why don't you start off by stating your position. I've already told you I don't know why things like this weren't covered. Maybe you could school us rather than posing leading questions?
 
Actually I seem to be the one asking questions relevant to the issue and you seem to be the one making personal comments. Again.

Well, why don't you start off by stating your position. I've already told you I don't know why things like this weren't covered. Maybe you could school us rather than posing leading questions?

I would think my position is pretty clear from the nature of my questions.

As far as I know this amendment would do nothing the 14th doesn't already do.

If it does do something else it appears no one is able to answer questions as to what that something else may be. This may have even set a TFT record for least content in a thread before the comments started being directed at me personally instead of the issue.
 
Well, why don't you start off by stating your position. I've already told you I don't know why things like this weren't covered. Maybe you could school us rather than posing leading questions?

I would think my position is pretty clear from the nature of my questions.

As far as I know this amendment would do nothing the 14th doesn't already do.

If it does do something else it appears no one is able to answer questions as to what that something else may be. This may have even set a TFT record for least content in a thread before the comments started being directed at me personally instead of the issue.

Okay so you have stated a position. Great. Anyone want to take con?

And nothing was meant to be taken personally.
 
http://www.richmond.com/news/virgin...f-a94c-f6618d790097.html#.VNQpxCQEKog.twitter
"Once again, the Virginia Senate has voted to ratify the Equal Rights Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

The chamber has approved the measure repeatedly in recent years, only to see it killed in the House of Delegates."

So what say ye common folk. Are women equal to-day?
Old news.
The GOP members that voted FOR the ERA rescinded their votes to punish the Dems.
 
Well, why don't you start off by stating your position. I've already told you I don't know why things like this weren't covered. Maybe you could school us rather than posing leading questions?

I would think my position is pretty clear from the nature of my questions.

As far as I know this amendment would do nothing the 14th doesn't already do.

If it does do something else it appears no one is able to answer questions as to what that something else may be. This may have even set a TFT record for least content in a thread before the comments started being directed at me personally instead of the issue.

This was essentially the argument used against its passage in the 1970s. The 14th Amendment already covers this - says the Congress and the Supreme Court. It's an attempt to clutter the Constitution with political statements. But as the cutoff for the states to ratify it ended over 30 years ago, this discussion is much ado about nothing.
 
But as the cutoff for the states to ratify it ended over 30 years ago, this discussion is much ado about nothing.
I found it pretty curious they were still voting on this. I do believe it is wise that all proposed amendments have expiration dates.
 
But as the cutoff for the states to ratify it ended over 30 years ago, this discussion is much ado about nothing.
I found it pretty curious they were still voting on this. I do believe it is wise that all proposed amendments have expiration dates.

I disagree. Things having to do with rights shouldn't have any expiration dates. If you get enough misogynists or racists in a congress to block a renewal, all of a sudden there's a class of people who lose their rights.
 
I found it pretty curious they were still voting on this. I do believe it is wise that all proposed amendments have expiration dates.

I disagree. Things having to do with rights shouldn't have any expiration dates. If you get enough misogynists or racists in a congress to block a renewal, all of a sudden there's a class of people who lose their rights.

He didn't say Amendments should have expiration dates, he said amendment proposals should have expiration dates. (I don't agree, I don't really see why such an expiration is really needed).
 
I disagree. Things having to do with rights shouldn't have any expiration dates. If you get enough misogynists or racists in a congress to block a renewal, all of a sudden there's a class of people who lose their rights.

He didn't say Amendments should have expiration dates, he said amendment proposals should have expiration dates. (I don't agree, I don't really see why such an expiration is really needed).

Well, that's different. I still don't see why, however.

What does it mean that states haven't ratified it? Do women have less rights in these states and, if so, what is a practical effect of that? Does not ratifying it for a certain period mean that it goes into effect by default?

Up here, for instance, we put together a new constitution back in the 1980s. The province of Quebec still hasn't signed it, however. The effect of that lack of signing means that the rules from that new constitution apply to Quebec exactly the same as they do to all the provinces which did sign it - so there's no effect at all. Is it the same kind of thing with your amendments?
 
Here is what all the hubbub is about

Section 1. Equality of rights under the law shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of sex.
Section 2. The Congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.
Section 3. This amendment shall take effect two years after the date of ratification.


That's it, the whole magilla. The above statement is what critics claim will clutter the constitution. Exactly how they never say.

And now for the arguments for the ERA

Without the ERA, the Constitution does not explicitly guarantee that the rights it protects are held equally by all citizens without regard to sex. The first — and still the only — right specifically affirmed as equal for women and men is the right to vote.
The equal protection clause of the Constitution's 14th Amendment was first applied to sex discrimination only in 1971, and it has never been interpreted to grant equal rights on the basis of sex in the uniform and inclusive way that the ERA would.
The ERA would provide a clearer judicial standard for deciding cases of sex discrimination, since federal and state courts (some working with state ERAs, some without) still reflect confusion and inconsistency in dealing with such claims. It would also clarify sex discrimination jurisprudence and 40 years of precedent for Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia, who claimed in an interview reported in the January 2011 California Lawyer that the Constitution, specifically the 14th Amendment, does not protect against sex discrimination.
The ERA would provide a strong legal defense against a rollback of the significant advances in women's rights made in the past 50 years. Without it, Congress can weaken or replace existing laws on women's rights, and judicial precedents on issues of gender equality can be eroded or ignored by reactionary courts responding to a conservative political agenda.
Without the ERA, women regularly and men occasionally have to fight long, expensive, and difficult legal battles in an effort to prove that their rights are equal to those of the other sex.
The ERA would improve the United States' human rights standing in the world community. The governing documents of many other countries affirm legal gender equality, however imperfect the global implementation of that ideal may be.
http://www.equalrightsamendment.org/why.htm
 
He didn't say Amendments should have expiration dates, he said amendment proposals should have expiration dates. (I don't agree, I don't really see why such an expiration is really needed).

Well, that's different. I still don't see why, however.

What does it mean that states haven't ratified it? Do women have less rights in these states and, if so, what is a practical effect of that? Does not ratifying it for a certain period mean that it goes into effect by default?

Up here, for instance, we put together a new constitution back in the 1980s. The province of Quebec still hasn't signed it, however. The effect of that lack of signing means that the rules from that new constitution apply to Quebec exactly the same as they do to all the provinces which did sign it - so there's no effect at all. Is it the same kind of thing with your amendments?

What the amendment not being ratified means is that it has no effect. It was approved by Congress, which meant it was sent to the States. 3/4 of the States need to approve the amendment for it to take effect nationally (even in States where it hasn't been ratified). That means 38 State legislatures need to approve it. 35 states ratified the amendment, but that is still 3 short of what was needed.

Now that I have looked into it, I don't see how this vote mattered. There was a deadline on this amendment ratification, and it is long past. It was originally in 1979, and extended to 1982, and that was it.
 
Here is what all the hubbub is about

Section 1. Equality of rights under the law shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of sex.
Section 2. The Congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.
Section 3. This amendment shall take effect two years after the date of ratification.


That's it, the whole magilla. The above statement is what critics claim will clutter the constitution. Exactly how they never say.

And now for the arguments for the ERA

Without the ERA, the Constitution does not explicitly guarantee that the rights it protects are held equally by all citizens without regard to sex. The first — and still the only — right specifically affirmed as equal for women and men is the right to vote.
The equal protection clause of the Constitution's 14th Amendment was first applied to sex discrimination only in 1971, and it has never been interpreted to grant equal rights on the basis of sex in the uniform and inclusive way that the ERA would.
The ERA would provide a clearer judicial standard for deciding cases of sex discrimination, since federal and state courts (some working with state ERAs, some without) still reflect confusion and inconsistency in dealing with such claims. It would also clarify sex discrimination jurisprudence and 40 years of precedent for Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia, who claimed in an interview reported in the January 2011 California Lawyer that the Constitution, specifically the 14th Amendment, does not protect against sex discrimination.
The ERA would provide a strong legal defense against a rollback of the significant advances in women's rights made in the past 50 years. Without it, Congress can weaken or replace existing laws on women's rights, and judicial precedents on issues of gender equality can be eroded or ignored by reactionary courts responding to a conservative political agenda.
Without the ERA, women regularly and men occasionally have to fight long, expensive, and difficult legal battles in an effort to prove that their rights are equal to those of the other sex.
The ERA would improve the United States' human rights standing in the world community. The governing documents of many other countries affirm legal gender equality, however imperfect the global implementation of that ideal may be.
http://www.equalrightsamendment.org/why.htm

So what rights are denied women now that the new amendment is meant to address? The reasons cited by that article are gobbledegook. "Without the ERA, women regularly and men occasionally have to fight long, expensive, and difficult legal battles in an effort to prove that their rights are equal to those of the other sex." What bullshit. So passing a law prevents people from doing bad things? Are you new to Earth? This would add nothing to sexual discrimination jurisprudence. "The ERA would provide a clearer judicial standard for deciding cases of sex discrimination, since federal and state courts (some working with state ERAs, some without) still reflect confusion and inconsistency in dealing with such claims." How does it do that exactly? This is just clutter and serves no real purpose. I say this as a lawyer; redundant laws ought to be avoided.
 
My reason for expiration dates for proposed Amendments are practical as we can have proposals sitting out there for hundreds of years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ted_States_Constitution#Unratified_Amendments

  • Congressional Apportionment Amendment (pending since September 25, 1789; ratified by 11 states)
    Would strictly regulate the size of congressional districts for representation in the House of Representatives.

  • Titles of Nobility Amendment (pending since May 1, 1810; ratified by 12 states)
    Would strip citizenship from any United States citizen who accepts a title of nobility from a foreign country.

  • Corwin Amendment (pending since March 2, 1861; ratified by 3 states)
    Would make "domestic institutions" (which in 1861 implicitly meant slavery) of the states impervious to the constitutional amendment procedures enshrined within Article Five of the United States Constitution and immune to abolition or interference even by the most compelling Congressional and popular majorities.

  • Child Labor Amendment (pending since June 2, 1924; ratified by 28 states)
    Would empower the federal government to regulate child labor.

There is nothing saying that the deadlines cannot be extended or the Amendment re-proposed.
 
Well, that's different. I still don't see why, however.

What does it mean that states haven't ratified it? Do women have less rights in these states and, if so, what is a practical effect of that? Does not ratifying it for a certain period mean that it goes into effect by default?

Up here, for instance, we put together a new constitution back in the 1980s. The province of Quebec still hasn't signed it, however. The effect of that lack of signing means that the rules from that new constitution apply to Quebec exactly the same as they do to all the provinces which did sign it - so there's no effect at all. Is it the same kind of thing with your amendments?

What the amendment not being ratified means is that it has no effect. It was approved by Congress, which meant it was sent to the States. 3/4 of the States need to approve the amendment for it to take effect nationally (even in States where it hasn't been ratified). That means 38 State legislatures need to approve it. 35 states ratified the amendment, but that is still 3 short of what was needed.

Now that I have looked into it, I don't see how this vote mattered. There was a deadline on this amendment ratification, and it is long past. It was originally in 1979, and extended to 1982, and that was it.

Ya, that was my question. In terms of equal rights for women, what are they being denied with this amendment not being ratified that they'd get if it was ratified?
 
What the amendment not being ratified means is that it has no effect. It was approved by Congress, which meant it was sent to the States. 3/4 of the States need to approve the amendment for it to take effect nationally (even in States where it hasn't been ratified). That means 38 State legislatures need to approve it. 35 states ratified the amendment, but that is still 3 short of what was needed.

Now that I have looked into it, I don't see how this vote mattered. There was a deadline on this amendment ratification, and it is long past. It was originally in 1979, and extended to 1982, and that was it.

Ya, that was my question. In terms of equal rights for women, what are they being denied with this amendment not being ratified that they'd get if it was ratified?

Not much, it would render unconstitutional some outdated and non-enforced laws probably.

For instance, this is a law in Michigan:

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(wn...eg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-750-532

Act 328 of 1931


750.532 Seduction; punishment.

Sec. 532.

Punishment—Any man who shall seduce and debauch any unmarried woman shall be guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment in the state prison not more than 5 years or by fine of not more than 2,500 dollars; but no prosecution shall be commenced under this section after 1 year from the time of committing the offense.
 
Not much, it would render unconstitutional some outdated and non-enforced laws probably.

These laws would also be unconstitutional under the 14th, wouldn't they?

If you have an existing amendment that requires all people are given equal protection that seems >= women are given equal protection. Unless the argument is women are not people.
 
Well, it would beg the question about why there is not equal protection under the law. A lot of people don't want homosexuals to have the same rights as heterosexuals.
 
But as the cutoff for the states to ratify it ended over 30 years ago, this discussion is much ado about nothing.
Not quite about nothing.
At first, it was a chance for politicians in Virginia to advertise that they were interested in getting the Women's Vote.
Then it was a chance for some of the replublicans to rescind their vote, and announce that they're terrified of the Tea Party, so they wanted to be able to say they opposed Equal Rights....

hey, i have a question. The South keeps threatening to secede. If they do, and the number of 3/4's of the remaining states were to drop to or below the number that have ratified the ERA, would that make it Ratified?
 
Back
Top Bottom