The Fall - The Just So stories begin

[rhutchin]

Childbirth is a good example of a sophisticated process that was designed.

Called it. No explanation. Just assertion. As always.

Not a sophisticated process?? Not a good design?? Why provide an explanation to explain the obvious?

Of course, your comment is assertion also and the most in need of support.

 

[rhutchin]

This is the question I always ask Christians and I never get a response. Why the fall?

God made the garden, put Adam and Eve into the garden and then said that Satan should go in and get them to sin. So, it was all God's plan.

Well, that is a response. But doesn't answer the question, WHY?

He just didn't tell us.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Called it. No explanation. Just assertion. As always.

Not a sophisticated process??

What, is that your evidence for it being sophisticated? That you don't expect anyone else to question it?
You can't define 'complex' so i'm going to assume, here, that you haven't got a handy definition of 'sophisticated,' either, or any way of actually determining if something is or isn't sophisticated with respect to your definition.
Making your assertion just meaningless background noise.

Not a good design?? Why provide an explanation to explain the obvious?

Because it's not obvious and I doubt you can explain it.
You don't do explanations, by and large.
You're more of a name-dropper when it comes to evidence.

Of course, your comment is assertion also and the most in need of support.

Which comment? THe one where i said you couldn't come up with an explanation and you went and demonstrated it?
Pfft.
There's no lacking evidence for that conclusion.

- - - Updated - - -

This is the question I always ask Christians and I never get a response. Why the fall?

God made the garden, put Adam and Eve into the garden and then said that Satan should go in and get them to sin. So, it was all God's plan.

Well, that is a response. But doesn't answer the question, WHY?

He just didn't tell us.

STILL doesn't tell us 'why.' Nor does it explain why you think there is, somewhere, a why.

 

[dockeen]

I think, floating around in some axiom form, is the idea that if a process takes one or more steps to work, and if it succeeds more than it fails, then it is complex, sophisticated, and has to have been designed.

By god.

My god.

Not yours.

 

[jonJ]

He just didn't tell us.

Well, that's not going to get past the Ethics Committee!

 

[rhutchin]

Not a sophisticated process??

What, is that your evidence for it being sophisticated? That you don't expect anyone else to question it?
You can't define 'complex' so i'm going to assume, here, that you haven't got a handy definition of 'sophisticated,' either, or any way of actually determining if something is or isn't sophisticated with respect to your definition.
Making your assertion just meaningless background noise.

I guess that makes two of us without definitions. Hope science catches up with the needs here one day. Guess we are stuck with assertions for now.

 

[rhutchin]

He just didn't tell us.

Well, that's not going to get past the Ethics Committee!

Given that God is the ethics committee, does it matter?

 

[Keith&Co.]

I guess that makes two of us without definitions.

What definition do you think i'm lacking?
You're the one throwing labels on childbirth, defend them or look silly. I know what i'm betting on...

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

rhutchin would not offer an explanation, but would insinuate that it seems to be fairly popular and no one has ever refused to be born.

Childbirth is a good example of a sophisticated process that was designed.

You either are trolling here or have never witnessed a live birth. Because if you had, you would know for a fact that it is about two to three miles away from being an "intelligent" process. I remember being worried about the post birth bleeding and the nurse says, "that's normal". Jebus! What is abnormal?! If she is floating down a river of her own blood?

This is the question I always ask Christians and I never get a response. Why the fall?

God made the garden, put Adam and Eve into the garden and then said that Satan should go in and get them to sin. So, it was all God's plan.

But god doesn't boot man and woman from the garden because they broke an alleged rule (and allegedly sinned). He punished them specifically because of them eating from a tree they were allegedly told not to eat from. It should be noted that the statement from god is loosely worded and may mean it was only a warning of dying because of poison, not a prohibition. Regardless, your claim would only go as far that man has to bust his butt to farm and child birth sucks because god wanted it that way. The booting from the garden was not part of the plan.

Well after the punishment, god talks to himself (and the other proto-gods) and bitches about the consequences of eating the fruit. Man had come to know all things and "became like one of us". The threat was that man would eat of the Tree of Life and become immortal. That is why man is booted, not because he broke an alleged rule.

 

[jonJ]

Well, that's not going to get past the Ethics Committee!

Given that God is the ethics committee, does it matter?

If you believe it's moral to follow the doctrine of informed consent, yes. If you believe that might makes right, and God's being a dick turns you on, no.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Given that God is the ethics committee, does it matter?

If you believe it's moral to follow the doctrine of informed consent, yes. If you believe that might makes right, and God's being a dick turns you on, no.

Its statements like the above that really makes me think he doesn't actually believe anything he is posting.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Ok, Christian, if you don't drink Draino it proves you aren't able to choose to do so. Go prove to me you have free will.

That people can choose to do something only tells us that people have a will.I don't think anyone has ever shown the will to be free - certainly not in the libertarian sense.Adam, in the garden, was able to eat of any tree he desired with the one exception. So, a person is free so long as his that which he wants is available for the choosing - a limited form of freedom.

Romans et al assures us all was predetermined by God from all eternity. Thar would mean Adam's fall was predetermined by God.Why would this God thing do evil like that? God then is not perfectly good as proclaimed. God isn't a sensible hypotheses.

 

[Potoooooooo]

Don't forget about Adam's first wife Lilith

 

[Kharakov]

That's hilarious. What comic, your own?

 

[Potoooooooo]

No, it is from a very talented lady from Scandinavia named Humon http://humon.deviantart.com/
That particular strip is from a series called Manala Next Door. It is about the daily lives of supernatural creatures. Angels are pretty regularly mocked

 

[Kharakov]

Thanks, that last comic comes at a good time.