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The Great Attractor

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On Earth, we can make some imaginary grid lines that are not randomly selected. They are not arbitrary. There's a reason for why use them.

In space, it's more difficult to avoid randomly choosing imaginary stationary grid lines, but what about The Great Attactor? If we're going in a particular direction, our observable universe in direction of travel is fundamentally different than it is in the other direction.
 
How does that improve on the supergalactic coordinate system?

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Supergalactic_coordinate_system

Supergalactic coordinates are coordinates in a spherical coordinate system which was designed to have its equator aligned with the supergalactic plane, a major structure in the local universe formed by the preferential distribution of nearby galaxy clusters (such as the Virgo cluster, the Great Attractor and the Pisces-Perseus supercluster) towards a (two-dimensional) plane.
 
Now that that is solved manned flight exploring the galaxy should be a piece of cake.
 
What? Our gridlines are arbitrary. The only things that arent are the two poles, the equator, and the tropics. Lines of Longitude are completely arbitrary. The only reason they are located where they are is because of the Royal Observatory being located in Greenwich England set the benchmark for them.
 
What? Our gridlines are arbitrary. The only things that arent are the two poles, the equator, and the tropics. Lines of Longitude are completely arbitrary. The only reason they are located where they are is because of the Royal Observatory being located in Greenwich England set the benchmark for them.
Would all of the longitudinal lines be arbitrary, or just one? They don't appear random. The symetry seems to mirror the pattern of latitudinal lines.
 
I can't even grok the significance of that distinction.
 
If there is no objective basis for a starting longitudinal line, we can still eliminate the possibility that the chosen first line is not random, but even if it should mean that judgement has been brought to bare rendering the first line arbitrary, that wouldn't therefore mean that everything that follows is itself arbitrary. The symetry objectively mirrors latitudinal lines. This isn't a fruit of the poisonous tree situation where everything that follows from something arbitrary is therefore also arbitrary. Right? No?
 
The prime meridian (zero longitude) was established by the Brits in the mid 1700s (i think) for map making - others adopted it. Before that, there were other systems going back to the early Greeks. I guess you could call the selection of prime meridian passing through the Royal Observatory in Greenwich objective if you wish but that selection is something that only a Brit would think of, Italians would have likely selected some landmark in Rome as where to place zero longitude.

Then there is the whole 360 degrees to complete the circuit of the Earth thingy. Why 360 degrees other than tradition? There is nothing inherent about circles that make it 360 degrees rather than, say, 100 degrees. If all the math tables had been made after adoption of the metric system then it likely would have been so designated. If it had been then the international date line would be at 50 degrees longitude instead of 180 degrees and the poles would be at 25 degrees latitude instead of 90 degrees latitude.
 
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Space navigation is a problem as in Star Trek. When Kirk says all stop, relative to what? In the saga they came up with a subspace system of navigation reference points.

Navigating to precise points light years away seems problematic.

It was latitude and longitude plus the development of an accurate clock tolerant of heat and ship motions. The Brits had a competition with a sizeable reward for the day. You needed time of day to take a position fix from the angle of sun above horizon.
 
Space navigation is a problem as in Star Trek. When Kirk says all stop, relative to what? In the saga they came up with a subspace system of navigation reference points.

Navigating to precise points light years away seems problematic.

It was latitude and longitude plus the development of an accurate clock tolerant of heat and ship motions. The Brits had a competition with a sizeable reward for the day. You needed time of day to take a position fix from the angle of sun above horizon.

I'm still (naively, I guess) holding on to an "all stop" notion. It's not that I deny that we're always moving relative to other objects. I don't deny that. However, I feel that I can be moving and not moving simultaneously when one of those senses is relative and the other is not.

If every object in the universe stopped dead in its tracks except one, there's always the truth that the objects frozen still and without movement are all moving in tandem relative to that one exception. So, to me, talking about relative movement is akin to talking in another language where actual absolute movement is a separate issue only denied by those enthralled with the singular understanding of relativity--which I don't even deny.

So, if I could prop up a motionless imaginary set of intergalactic grid lines and managed to position a spaceship on a coordinate without deviating from its point, it would still be true that I'm moving mighty fast relative to other objects in space, but in my mind, if all other objects were frozen without movement except my ship, our speed would be the same, not different.

What seems interesting the more I learn about these prexisting coordinate systems is the idea that we're never truly in the same place twice. Sure, relative to other objects we might be, but relative to a static grid line we are not, especially if we're all headed towards this great attractor like a raft going down a raging river.
 
Yep. We are moving around the sun, sun around the galaxy, galaxy moving to other galaxies.

Submarines use inertial navigation. In port they initialize a system to surface location. As the sub moves in three dimensions accelerometers measure acceleration. Integrating acceleration yields velocity. Integrating velocity yields distance. 3 accelerometers in x,y,z allow a 3d vector of travel to be calculated.

Never stop dreaming and imagination.
 
The prime meridian (zero longitude) was established by the Brits in the mid 1700s (i think) for map making - others adopted it. Before that, there were other systems going back to the early Greeks. I guess you could call the selection of prime meridian passing through the Royal Observatory in Greenwich objective if you wish but that selection is something that only a Brit would think of, Italians would have likely selected some landmark in Rome as where to place zero longitude.

Then there is the whole 360 degrees to complete the circuit of the Earth thingy. Why 360 degrees other than tradition? There is nothing inherent about circles that make it 360 degrees rather than, say, 100 degrees. If all the math tables had been made after adoption of the metric system then it likely would have been so designated. If it had been then the international date line would be at 50 degrees longitude instead of 180 degrees and the poles would be at 25 degrees latitude instead of 90 degrees latitude.

The French used a Paris based longitude system for a long time, in competition with the English Greenwich system. GPS has recently imposed a whole new system - the WGS84 standard used by GPS has its prime meridian located approximately 102.5 metres east of the Greenwich Meridian at Greenwich (although the mean variation from the Greenwich longitude standard worldwide is close to zero). Because the Earth is not spherical, and does not exhibit uniform gravity, the variation between WGS84 and the Greenwich longitude standard is different in different parts of the world; The two systems agree exactly* about universal time, however.

At Greenwich, the eye-piece of Sir George Airy’s Transit Circle, that since 1851 has been used to view the transits of celestial bodies to define Universal Time, is leveled based on the local gravitational plane; And the Airy standard was adopted as the world standard for both time and longitude in 1884.

However the GPS zero longitude plane established 100 years later, in 1984, is defined as passing through the Earth's centre of mass, while the North/South plane normal to the local gravitational plane at the Airy circle, does not; The GPS Zero meridian is defined as the place where a plane which passes through the Earth's centre of mass, and is parallel to the plane defined by the Airy circle, transects the Earth's surface. As the two planes are parallel, they meet the same time standard, as transits of stars at infinity* are simultaneous for the two planes.

Essentially, because the Earth is not a perfectly homogeneous sphere, keeping the Universal Time standard as defined by Airy, meant relocating the zero longitude standard, such that it remains parallel to, and therefore temporally identical with, the plane defined in the time standard, but now passes through the centre of the Earth. They could keep time, or location, at the Airy circle; But due to the misshapen planet, they could not keep both.

So if you go to Greenwich, there is a laser beam, and a brass strip on the ground, and a multitude of tourists, and much pomp and ceremony, that mark the zero point from which universal time is calculated; But your GPS receiver will tell you that your longitude is zero, only if you walk 102.5 metres to the East from those markers. The Royal Observatory staff have marked the new location of zero longitude (which falls in Greenwich Park, outside the compound of the Observatory itself) with a rubbish bin. Make of that what you will.














*Yes, I know, the stars are not actually an infinite distance away, so 'exactly' is not exactly correct; But the difference is defined by the parallax with a baseline of 102.5 metres and a range measured in light years, so it's easily good enough for government work; We are very unlikely ever to have, or to need, clocks sufficiently precise as to be able to tell the difference, which is to all practical intents, zero.
 
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