The Shooting of Alton Sterling

[Bronzeage]

As a licensed pilot myself (with commercial rating), I can speak to this. The reason that the NTSB is quick to call pilot error is threefold... one, they are in bed with the multi-billion dollar airplane manufacturers, and are hesitant to blame the hardware. Two, it is rarely the hardware.. .the Pilot is, by far, the weakest link. Three, if airplanes were blamed for incidents, people would trust airplanes less. With the pilot being blamed, one can feel confident that they are on a flight with a different pilot (but not so quick to feel like it is a different plane manufacturer).

If a pilot ever botches a landing(and survives) because it was a stressful situation and he had only seconds to decide what to do, there won't be any of this, "fly a mile in his shoes" bullshit.

ah but there is... more like, fly 1,000's of miles in his shoes, in a simulator, trying to figure out what could have gone wrong... that is just one of the many things that are routinely done in even the most minor of incidents.

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And is that a capital offense?

Capital offense is something that can get you sentenced to death. Being shot because police perceive an imminent threat to themselves or others (rightly or wrongly) is not a capital offense. Had Alton survive the encounter he'd not have been charged with a capital crime.

This inane question gets repeated in these situations over and over again but it really makes no sense.

He was killed by an agent of the state during the exercise of his duties. That is an execution.

So anytime a perpetrator is exchanging gunfire with the police, and the police shoot and kill the shooter, it is an "execution"?

Is the guy dead?

 

[repoman]

This guy is on point...

 

[ZiprHead]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/man-alton-sterling-death-sues-cops-stole-video-article-1.2707524

The convenience store owner who captured Alton Sterling’s death on video said police stole the surveillance video from his store, took his cellphone and locked him in a car for four hours.

 

[Ford]

This guy is on point...

Stopped watching the second he said "the black lives matter massacre of the five police officers in Dallas."

 

[Loren Pechtel]

My son served in Afghanistan for 18 months in a war zone. When they were on patrol in villages during the war in a war zone, they were under strict orders to only shoot when someone was pointing a weapon at them. They were not permitted to shoot because they just "feared for their lives" or that someone might have a weapon nearby or that someone was reaching for a weapon or that someone had a weapon in his or her hand. And the consequences for disobeying the order was immediate and severe.

Yet in this country, we routinely excuse police for actions that soldiers in a war zone would be immediately arrested for and punished. So this "real time" excuse is just that - an excuse but it is not an acceptable explanation.

Soldiers are expected to take far more risks than police officers are.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

...
3) When it comes to the cops they have the right to shoot if it's the last chance to save someone's life even if the threat is not immediate. (Local example: The cops pick up a guy for murder. As they're taking him in he figures out who talked and says he's going to kill the person. The cops do not know where that person is, but it appears the killer does. When he escapes they shoot.)

Yes, because there is no other option than to shoot him in the back.

No one would suspect the police have made up this story after having been panicked by their own incompetence to let a suspect escape and shot him to cover up the mistake.

Shooting didn't cover it up.

Policemen are not the angel of death. They have no more right to kill than any other citizen. For some reason we have granted police leniency in these cases when the facts are somewhat murky. We realize the danger and stress under which they operate and give them a pass when they fuck up.

When the threat is real but not imminent civilians are expected to turn to the police. The police have nobody to turn to.

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The man was tasered. Your body is going to react to that kind of abuse/pain. This is not 'resisting arrest', this is avoiding pain and not something that most people can simply control. Please put your hand on a hot burner and leave it there until someone else tells you to remove it. See how well you do.

He didn't react--the taser must have failed. They do sometimes.

 

[laughing dog]

Soldiers are expected to take far more risks than police officers are.

Soldiers get paid less and have to work more than police officers. So why do we expect police officer to so much less risk than we expect soldiers?

 

[ksen]

Isn't it pretty much maxed out?

Note, I don't know what Deray was doing when he was arrested.

However, to get a criminal or arrest record that will deny you the chance for a job or student loans for a peaceful (if obstructive) protest with no vandalism is terribly wrong and it part of a totalitarian state. However cops would probably lied and trump up a charge to fuck them over.

For a protest that is just a hassle for the cops and motorists etc... the protestor should only get a couple days in jail and a moderate fine. NEVER a criminal or arrest record that is employer searchable.

Fines are pointless as #BLM can always call on their sympathizers to donate. Or get George Soros to give more money to organizations funding #BLM. There needs to be real deterrence otherwise it will keep happening. Do not release them after an hour and then drop the cases like San Francisco has done. A good punishment would be community service. Picking up trash off highways for instance.

or maybe some cotton, amirite?

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

 

[Bronzeage]

Isn't it pretty much maxed out?

Note, I don't know what Deray was doing when he was arrested.

However, to get a criminal or arrest record that will deny you the chance for a job or student loans for a peaceful (if obstructive) protest with no vandalism is terribly wrong and it part of a totalitarian state. However cops would probably lied and trump up a charge to fuck them over.

For a protest that is just a hassle for the cops and motorists etc... the protestor should only get a couple days in jail and a moderate fine. NEVER a criminal or arrest record that is employer searchable.

Fines are pointless as #BLM can always call on their sympathizers to donate. Or get George Soros to give more money to organizations funding #BLM. There needs to be real deterrence otherwise it will keep happening. Do not release them after an hour and then drop the cases like San Francisco has done. A good punishment would be community service. Picking up trash off highways for instance.

The arrests are being made to intimidate the public, not for any public safety reason. Very few if any of these arrests will go to trial. There are hundreds of videos of people being arrested while trying to comply with police orders. Police have gone onto private property to arrest protesters who had been ordered to get out of the street.

Even if these arrest were valid in some way, the city can't afford to prosecute them all and could not stand the embarrassment. The only evidence against them will the testimony of the arresting officers, which would expose the city's strategy for dealing with the protesters. This is an election year. There will be a new Mayor and the entire city council is up for reelection.

 

[Derec]

The arrests are being made to intimidate the public, not for any public safety reason.

Blocking roads and highways is a public safety issue.

Very few if any of these arrests will go to trial. There are hundreds of videos of people being arrested while trying to comply with police orders. Police have gone onto private property to arrest protesters who had been ordered to get out of the street.

Being on private property does not shield one from arrest (otherwise nobody would be arrested at home or work). This is not GTA where you can remove your wanted stars by going to your "save house" or Pay'n'Spray.

Even if these arrest were valid in some way, the city can't afford to prosecute them all and could not stand the embarrassment. The only evidence against them will the testimony of the arresting officers, which would expose the city's strategy for dealing with the protesters. This is an election year. There will be a new Mayor and the entire city council is up for reelection.

I think the city cannot afford not to. There must be some consequence for this, otherwise there is no deterrence against them doing it again and again. #BLMers have shut down interstates in Minneapolis over the justified shooting of Jamar Clark this year, now they are doing it over the Philandro shooting even though there is no indication that the investigation is not proceeding properly.

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or maybe some cotton, amirite?

Are you seriously comparing community service to slavery?

 

[Derec]

So anytime a perpetrator is exchanging gunfire with the police, and the police shoot and kill the shooter, it is an "execution"?

Sterling was not exchanging anything. He was restrained by two officers. Rather than continue to restrain him, one of the officers decided it was a better idea to plug a couple bullets into his chest.

Read the whole exchange. Malintent was using a different example to show how absurd Bronzeage's position is. Bronzeage thinks that every time police kill a suspect it is an "execution" even if the suspect is shooting at the police.

 

[Bronzeage]

Sterling was not exchanging anything. He was restrained by two officers. Rather than continue to restrain him, one of the officers decided it was a better idea to plug a couple bullets into his chest.

Read the whole exchange. Malintent was using a different example to show how absurd Bronzeage's position is. Bronzeage thinks that every time police kill a suspect it is an "execution" even if the suspect is shooting at the police.

It's a matter of semantics. If a suspect is shot and killed because he is not cooperating with a policeman, is that not an execution?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Blocking roads and highways is a public safety issue.

As opposed to riots?

Even if these arrest were valid in some way, the city can't afford to prosecute them all and could not stand the embarrassment. The only evidence against them will the testimony of the arresting officers, which would expose the city's strategy for dealing with the protesters. This is an election year. There will be a new Mayor and the entire city council is up for reelection.

I think the city cannot afford not to. There must be some consequence for this, otherwise there is no deterrence against them doing it again and again.

I know! Highways across the nation are seriously backed up weekdays in the morning and afternoon when presumably #BLM'ers are blocking the roads. This has to stop!

or maybe some cotton, amirite?

Are you seriously comparing community service to slavery?

Are we bringing back chain gangs?

 

[Derec]

As opposed to riots?

It's a sliding scale. While blocking highways is not as bad a full on Ferguson or Baltimore style riot, it is still not a legitimate form of protest and those participating should still be arrested and punished.
Parents stuck on I-40 during protest call paramedics to help young son

I know! Highways across the nation are seriously backed up weekdays in the morning and afternoon when presumably #BLM'ers are blocking the roads. This has to stop!

Just because there are traffic jams does not mean it's ok for #BLM idiots to block highways every time something ticks them off.
Imagine if every group with a real or imagined grievance would take to blocking highways. I mean there is no reason for #BLM to have a monopoly on this tactic.

Are we bringing back chain gangs?

Court ordered community service is a pretty common form of alternate punishment.

 

[KeepTalking]

I mean there is no reason for #BLM to have a monopoly on this tactic.

They don't. Making a statement like this simply shows your complete ignorance with regard to the history of protest movements.

 

[Malintent]

If any of the posters in these types of threads that ask "couldn't the cop have done X, instead of shoot", spend a day as a cop, they would probably get themselves, or even several bystanders, killed, like immediately.

WTF man?! Was the guy waving a gun when they arrived on site? Were people in immediate danger? The answer seems to be no, because the shop owner didn't seem to think there was any trouble outside at all. This is crucial to calling out the BS in your post. People weren't fleeing the location because some guy was waving a gun. So the immediate threat didn't seem to exist.

So it would be wise to assess the situation, enter it alarmed, but calmly. Treat the guy that is twice your weight with some decency. This would seemingly put people at ease and continue keeping a calm situation calm, instead of the rough / do what we say or die approach.

Because when they didn't bother to go the humane option, they tasered him, wrestled him to the ground, and then killed him. It seems the cops lost control pretty early and once again seem to allow bad stuff to result from earlier bad decisions.

Did he "do what they say"? If not, why?

 

[Derec]

They don't. Making a statement like this simply shows your complete ignorance with regard to the history of protest movements.

I was not talking about history of protest movements. I am talking about the present of protest movements. I am not seeing any others blocking bridges and highways the way #BLM and related groups are doing, largely with impunity. Imagine the chaos if other groups started copying #BLM, including groups you do not agree with. Imagine if a Operation Rescue or Westboro Baptist Church decided to block a highway where you drive to work. Would you dismiss it as mere "inconvenience"?

 

[KeepTalking]

They don't. Making a statement like this simply shows your complete ignorance with regard to the history of protest movements.

I was not talking about history of protest movements.

You were talking about protests in general, which would certainly include historical protests, and making #BLM out to be something unique in this regard. It is not unique in this regard, so you were either speaking from a position of ignorance, or one of deliberate disinformation. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt by picking the former, but if you want it to be the latter, that is fine by me.

I am talking about the present of protest movements.

Okay, then, go ahead and name one other protest movement that is prevalent across the US at the present time.

I am not seeing any others blocking bridges and highways the way #BLM and related groups are doing, largely with impunity. Imagine the chaos if other groups started copying #BLM, including groups you do not agree with. Imagine if a Operation Rescue or Westboro Baptist Church decided to block a highway where you drive to work. Would you dismiss it as mere "inconvenience"?

Yes, because that is all it would be for me, an inconvenience. Sitting in traffic is an inconvenience that I experience several times a week during my commute to and from work. I generally just try to relax and get an extra chapter or two in on the audio book to which I am listening at the time.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

They don't. Making a statement like this simply shows your complete ignorance with regard to the history of protest movements.

I was not talking about history of protest movements. I am talking about the present of protest movements. I am not seeing any others blocking bridges and highways the way #BLM and related groups are doing, largely with impunity. Imagine the chaos if other groups started copying #BLM, including groups you do not agree with. Imagine if a Operation Rescue or Westboro Baptist Church decided to block a highway where you drive to work. Would you dismiss it as mere "inconvenience"?

Perhaps you haven't heard: http://www.kare11.com/news/crime/46-charged-with-rioting-in-i-94-shutdown/269607189

 

[Derec]

Perhaps you haven't heard: http://www.kare11.com/news/crime/46-charged-with-rioting-in-i-94-shutdown/269607189

What exactly have I supposed to have heard?